"Drag-ability" of hull material over rocks in river beds and on portages

Glenn MacGrady · Mar 12, 2024

billconner said:
Is any composite canoe really durable enough to be pulled up a bony creek for several miles?

mwaalen said:
does anyone have thoughts as to the best hull layup for "dragging" through portages excluding aluminum or Royalex due to weight.

We've had these questions in two threads recently, which I recalled when I saw this picture:

Some people such as @Alan Gage have commented that composite and cedar strip hulls are tougher than many people expect, and @Patrick Corry has reported dragging his wood/canvas canoes on portages. The canoe in the picture above happens to be T-Formex, and the arctic trip is described in this article:

The Opening Gauntlet: Arctic Expedition Gets Off To Rocky Start

A washed out road and last-minute bush plane drop led to a strenuous start for this ambitious 1,300-kilometer journey to the Arctic Ocean.

paddlingmag.com

Any other experiences, thoughts, opinions or wild guesses about the drag-ability of various hull materials?

CaptainOllieWest · Mar 12, 2024

This series is a pretty good demonstration of the abuse Novacraft Tuff stuff can take.

billconner · Mar 12, 2024

The conclusion I'm reaching is just let your kevlar hull get scratched. It's probably not going to break. If you don't mind more weight (I do) t-formax is an option. It will bother me to see scratches but I can take it back to factory for renewed finish (or diy if inclined).

recped · Mar 12, 2024

I've never owned one but I have dragged one many many years ago..........1.5 miles on a rough gravel road when I was 12 years old.

Alan Gage · Mar 12, 2024

recped said:
I've never owned one but I have dragged one many many years ago..........1.5 miles on a rough gravel road when I was 12 years old.

View attachment 139770

That sounds like it might almost be harder than actually portaging it. I can't imagine that was an easy pull.

Alan

Alan Gage · Mar 12, 2024

Glenn MacGrady said:
We've had these questions in two threads recently, which I recalled when I saw this picture:

View attachment 139769

Some people such as @Alan Gage have commented that composite and cedar strip hulls are tougher than many people expect, and @Patrick Corry has reported dragging his wood/canvas canoes on portages. The canoe in the picture above happens to be T-Formex, and the arctic trip is described in this article:

The Opening Gauntlet: Arctic Expedition Gets Off To Rocky Start

A washed out road and last-minute bush plane drop led to a strenuous start for this ambitious 1,300-kilometer journey to the Arctic Ocean.

paddlingmag.com

Any other experiences, thoughts, opinions or wild guesses about the drag-ability of various hull materials?

Wow, what a picture!

Glenn MacGrady · Mar 12, 2024

Aluminum sticks on rocks. Hitting a submerged rock in an aluminum canoe can bring you to a sudden and SCREACHING halt. It may be relatively bomb proof, but I think an aluminum canoe would be the most difficult hull material to drag over rocks.

Patrick Corry · Mar 12, 2024

Glenn MacGrady said:
@Corry has reported dragging his wood/canvas canoes on portages.

I gotta chime in here. I only dragged it once ( I swear- only once), in desperation, and only on boggy and soft terrain- not a rock in sight. Not on a portage. Just to escape the bog of upper Harrington Brook between Lake Lila and Clear Pond (Whitney Wilderness, ADKs) when I navigated poorly and was unable to find the proper portage start!

I have seen drag marks and paint left on perfectly good portage trails in the St. Regis Canoe Area. Must be kayakers dragging plastic kayaks... couldn't be a canoeist!

MrPoling · Mar 12, 2024

I'm not sure any material is abuse proof. The vinyl outer layer on Royalex is tough but overall the plastic is soft and can be sliced easily. Aluminum is really tough, but constant dragging will wear through the stems.

I think the best plan is to not do it often, and to accept that whatever canoe you abuse will not last very long. I keep one old royalite canoe around as my general abuse canoe, the canoe I take when the river is too low or when I might end up dragging it, walking in it across a marsh, or otherwise abusing it.

I also think in many cases it's better to take the lighter composite boat and carry whenever possible. Sometimes it takes discipline to slow down and double portage. In my experience though it's normally better on the gear and safer for the paddler. And when absolutely necessary most composites can handle a few bumps.

Gamma1214 · Mar 13, 2024

which I recalled when I saw this picture

That's some rather serious dragging considering that there's nothing paddle-able in the background either.

Honestly, I don't baby my boats and, for that reason, I like the strippers (any scratch that does not reach cloth doesn't get repaired) but I'd be carrying over that mess.

cedar strip hulls are tougher than many people expect

I can attest to that. I was very pleasantly surprised by how little damage was done to my stripper after I dragged it down the Steel River on its maiden voyage. The spar varnish peeled off in places (due to poor surface prep) but the epoxy did great and I didn't find any scratches that got through to the cloth.

I highly recommend abusing homemade boats.

Benson Gray · Mar 13, 2024

The video at the link below shows racers dragging wooden canoes over a portage in 1927 without any obvious issues. The dragging portage segment begins around 0:47 and runs to 1:07.

Benson

Cheeseandbeans · Mar 13, 2024

Patrick Corry said:
I have seen drag marks and paint left on perfectly good portage trails in the St. Regis Canoe Area.

I was in shock and awe seeing the mosaic of colors on the proud nail heads on the dock/walkway on the south end of Saint Regis Lake. I guess some folks were too tired to care after the portage or just don’t care in general. Some serious gouges I’m sure.

Bob

billconner · Mar 13, 2024

Big difference dragging loaded or empty also.

ppine · Mar 13, 2024

Where is your lifejacket?
In the Boundary Waters we perfected moving between lakes on little creeks and dragging the boats. Plenty of beaver ponds to go up and over. We called it Draggage. I am okay dragging boats in shallow water, but not on dry land, especially if they are loaded. That is boat abuse.
Aluminum boats can take it best. My boats get beat up enough by rocks in the water.

Dragging empty boats on grass is no big deal.

Jim Dodd · Mar 13, 2024

Glenn MacGrady said:
We've had these questions in two threads recently, which I recalled when I saw this picture:

View attachment 139769

Some people such as @Alan Gage have commented that composite and cedar strip hulls are tougher than many people expect, and @Patrick Corry has reported dragging his wood/canvas canoes on portages. The canoe in the picture above happens to be T-Formex, and the arctic trip is described in this article:

The Opening Gauntlet: Arctic Expedition Gets Off To Rocky Start

A washed out road and last-minute bush plane drop led to a strenuous start for this ambitious 1,300-kilometer journey to the Arctic Ocean.

paddlingmag.com

Any other experiences, thoughts, opinions or wild guesses about the drag-ability of various hull materials?

That is way to abusive for my eyes to watch ! Please take down ! Ha Ha !.

Seriously, every year on Project AWARE, I witness canoes being dragged up cement boat ramps. Factory boats of Royalex, and Aluminum, survive, year after year. I wouldn't portage those canoes, but those that can ? They are far better than Factory Kevlar or glass canoes. Plastic kayaks are also some of the most abused hulls I've seen. I always cringe, when I do .

Me ! I portage. Now days I've built lighter canoes, so I can do so.

It's hard for me to look at that picture !

Jim

yknpdlr · Mar 13, 2024

Benson Gray said:
The video at the link below shows racers dragging wooden canoes over a portage in 1927 without any obvious issues. The dragging portage segment begins around 0:47 and runs to 1:07.

i love the invisible zero hesittilon control stroke performance with no perceptable bow yaw those racers are able to demonstrate. No need to J-drag or hold a goon rudder stroke to keep going perfectly straight at speed. No hit and switch race stroke as is so common done today.

lowangle al · Mar 13, 2024

yknpdlr said:
i love the invisible zero hesittilon control stroke performance with no perceptable bow yaw those racers are able to demonstrate. No need to J-drag or hold a goon rudder stroke to keep going perfectly straight at speed. No hit and switch race stroke as is so common done today.

I think with all of the lean they are carving towards their paddle side, counteracting the yaw. This is something I've been working on lately. I've always leaned my boat towards my paddle side for ease of paddling but I wasn't leaning over far enough or consciously trying to carve. It really works.

recped · Mar 13, 2024

I want to revise my previous post, I remember the very first time I saw someone drag their canoe over a portage. I was shocked at first but that was probably because I was not aware of the existence of Old Town poly boats (I was paddling a w/c at the time).

I imagine they would slide/glide much better than a Grumman

Glenn MacGrady · Mar 13, 2024

@Conk has told me that he often drags his Curtis/Hemlock MayFly canoe when he is pond hopping in the remote regions of the Adirondacks. I don't know that he drags over rocks, however, and imagine he might carry his pack while dragging. Maybe he will pop in and elaborate.

yknpdlr · Mar 13, 2024

lowangle al said:
I think with all of the lean they are carving towards their paddle side, counteracting the yaw. This is something I've been working on lately. I've always leaned my boat towards my paddle side for ease of paddling but I wasn't leaning over far enough or consciously trying to carve. It really works.

Depending on hull shape, an offside lean may work better than onside. I know that in my Rapidfire, if I lean away from the paddling side, then far less correction (almost none) is needed than if the canoe is sit centered or leaned onside. I have found the same true in other canoes as well. Clearly those racers in the video are not heeling offside. As Charlie Wilson often told me, look for the "banana shape" of the in-water hull being presented to the water to help you carve it around. Try it.

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