Can I borrow your axe?

[Paddlinhal]

I'm going on a trip in a few weeks and one of the group gear items listed is "axe". It appears there are two coming along in our group of 6. That would seem to be more than enough, however, when I mentioned that I would want to use one to split up some cooking fire sized pieces, I got a lecture on how using a rock for a splitting stump will ruin an axe. So, considering the "just a minute" response I might get when asking the Havers of Axes for some firewood (I'm the only one planning to cook over the fire), would you bring your own axe?

By the way, I don't actually need an answer, but rather just interested in hearing some axe-murderer stories in which the axe is the victim.

 

[Alan Gage]

I've certainly dinged my blade by intending to carefully tap split wood on rock and then tapping just a bit too hard or having the wood split easier than expected. So I quit doing that.

Instead I find a way to split the wood so that the follow through will hit another piece of wood. If you get lucky you find a sawn off stump or large trunk to balance them on. More often you can find a way to lean them against a larger piece of wood so the blade will be blocked from hitting the ground.

Most often when cooking over small fires I don't split much, if any, wood unless it's been raining. It's usually pretty easy to find smaller, dry, branches from dead standing or dead leaning trees and just saw off lengths. I'll often baton small pieces with my knife if I need some kindling. It also works good to use the hatchet/axe to baton wood as well. Sometimes that's easier than trying to swing and hit a small diameter piece that's precariously balanced, especially over rock.

Alan

 

[Canotrouge]

I always bring my own axe and usually bring on for other to use. Most people don’t know how to use an axe and or don’t give a crap and use it in gravel, rocks, try to split wood with the handle..... anyway, my brother in law is the worst so he is not allowed to use my axe but can use the friskas as much as he want lol

 

[goonstroke]

Maybe I'm too sympathetic to the clueless, but on a group trip with an axe I worry more about the hands and feet of the perpetrators.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

You don't need an axe on a canoe trip just for campfires and cooking. I've never needed anything other than a pruning saw -- Silky saws are the best -- and a good fixed blade knife. Occasionally I'll bring a short machete, which is really just a big knife. There's usually no trouble finding small firewood size logs to saw, and kindling or cooking sticks can be split by batoning with the knife. But, no, I personally wouldn't risk my knife edge by batoning on a rock, but rather on a larger piece of wood.

That said, folks who grew up with axes or are very familiar and experienced using them do seem to like them on canoe trips, and of course can cut and split just about everything as necessary. Even then, canoe camp axes are typically short such as the Hudson Bay axes or Scandinavian forest axes. Here's Glenn Hooper (Wintertrekker), a very experienced Canadian canoe tripper, showing how to safely tap split logs on a rock.

 

[dschult2]

Here's Glenn Hooper (Wintertrekker), a very experienced Canadian canoe tripper, showing how to safely tap split logs on a rock.

I don't know why but I could watch that guy split wood and paddle a canoe all day.

 

[latremorej]

I re-watch his videos often!

And I have also dinged a few blades on rocks in the Past

Jason

 

[LanceR]

For my part I have a few axes, a 26" Estwing "large" camp axe in particular, that have helped dozens of scouts and more than a few adults learn axe-craft but I get really cautious about who uses my better axes. My usual policy is to saw to length and split as needed including variations of the above video and this one with the specific situation informing my choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQvXEjoWmqw

My bigger classic Plumb and Mann axes are too big for canoe tripping and so I'm kind of in the market for a small "belt hatchet" sized hatchet and maybe something in the size range of the small forest axe in the first video.

Best regards,


Lance

 

[alsg]

For my part I have a few axes, a 26" Estwing "large" camp axe in particular, that have helped dozens of scouts and more than a few adults learn axe-craft but I get really cautious about who uses my better axes. My usual policy is to saw to length and split as needed including variations of the above video and this one with the specific situation informing my choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQvXEjoWmqw

My bigger classic Plumb and Mann axes are too big for canoe tripping and so I'm kind of in the market for a small "belt hatchet" sized hatchet and maybe something in the size range of the small forest axe in the first video.

Best regards,


Lance

I saw a Paul Kirtley video where he used the same technique using a GB small forest axe. I'm sold that is a really excellent way to split. In addition to the safety, because you aren't balancing or supporting the piece to be split on its end, you can use any downed tree as the "anvil" and not worry about finding a stump or worry about dulling your edge on a rock..

EDIT: Link to video: https://youtu.be/0_4JKywBom0?t=580

 

[LanceR]

I saw a Paul Kirtley video where he used the same technique using a GB small forest axe. I'm sold that is a really excellent way to split. In addition to the safety, because you aren't balancing or supporting the piece to be split on its end, you can use any downed tree as the "anvil" and not worry about finding a stump or worry about dulling your edge on a rock..

One of the primary concerns the further you get from relatively quick access to emergency response teams is that actions that are completely acceptable at home become iffy at best in remote areas. What might be a somewhat painful inconvenience at home such as a severe ankle sprain could be life threatening in other circumstances. Hopping down off a 2-3 foot tall rock at Pilot Mountain State Park 6 miles from the house is generally OK. Doing so deep into a wilderness area is foolish and I'll climb down. That attitude carries over to knife and axe related activities. Just because I have quick clotting granules and dressings in my first aid kits doesn't mean I ever want to have to use them again.

Most of my cooking wood is less than a foot long and much of it goes into a twig stove so I find that I use a lot less firewood than I did when I was younger and that I generally don't feel any particular need for a campfire if it doesn't have a specific purpose. Nancy, on the other hand, likes a fire for ambiance a lot more than I do so things are different if she's with me.

So, I have no "set in concrete" technique. It's all situational.

I'm really just getting into using a twig stove on occasion and when backpacking I'm finding myself collecting firewood in the last mile or two into camp especially if I expect the site to be pretty well scavenged. I can boil 2 liters of water in about 8 minutes with either of my twig stoves (a Solo Stove Titan and a Firebox G5) using around a double handful of what otherwise would be kindling. For actual cooking I like the Firebox as I can just keep feeding a few sticks in the side slots as they burn off.

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[scoutergriz]

I stopped carrying an axe when tripping decades ago, you can break pieces up tp about forearm size simply by levering it between 2 trees. The biggest problem I find with axes is people that don't know how to use them so go all "he-man" on them, wrecking both the axe and often themselves. Other than staples or stitches, there's no easy way to close an axe wound in the bush, and having had to do it to someone once, I never want to repeat that.
besides, that three or more pounds could be replaced with some nice single malt...

 

[Foxyotter]

You don't need an axe on a canoe trip just for campfires and cooking. I've never needed anything other than a pruning saw -- Silky saws are the best -- and a good fixed blade knife. Occasionally I'll bring a short machete, which is really just a big knife. There's usually no trouble finding small firewood size logs to saw, and kindling or cooking sticks can be split by batoning with the knife. But, no, I personally wouldn't risk my knife edge by batoning on a rock, but rather on a larger piece of wood.

Technically you don't need an axe or a saw. For that matter you could nix the tent, sleeping pad etc. I don't "need" an axe but when it is late fall or winter paddling with a group of 5-8 cooking over fire in Michigan, but an axe can allow me to gather wood for warmth and cooking that a silky saw just can't handle without significant effort. Trees like white or red oak, maybe some shag bark hickory 6-10 inch diameter contains significantly more BTUs per unit of effort then a bunch of stick and twigs. Even in warmer times gathering 100 lbs of wood in sticks vs logs makes a large difference in how far, and long I need to gather and drag wood back to camp. When I do carry an ax canoe tripping I prefer a 28 inch handle and will accept a 26 inch but hatchets are just ineffective and dangerous. I have used axes all my life and regularly use axes and mauls for wood processing at home. There is a huge difference in effectiveness and safety between users. The back country is not a place to learn.

 

[DaveO]

I assume that you are planning to cook over a group fire built purely for ambiance otherwise. I would hope there would be a level of cooperation whereby the group would work out in the trip planning stage how to minimize weight and share tools. Seems odd someone would presume to lecture you on how using a rock for a splitting stump will ruin an axe.

I do not have an axe-murderer stories in which the axe is the victim. I've accidently nicked axes on rocks in the ground. It can happen. Using a rock for a splitting stump is of course a recipe for nicking the axe.

FWIW, I would lean toward bringing just a breakdown bucksaw and gloves. If everything was soaked and I needed the fire, I would then ask to borrow an axe to split out some kindling.

 

[Cruiser]

I have a Silky Bigboy and a Fiskars X7 hatchet, that combo will handle just about anything up to a foot in diameter. They are both pretty light weight and fill that niche of being able to cut wood quite nicely.

Brian

 

[Odyssey]

Hal if you're the only one planning to cook over a wood fire it seems practical to provide your own cooking kit. That may or may not include wood prep tools. If and how you prep fire wood is up to you including how you cook over it. Even in a group it is not unsociable nor unwise to maintain some semblance of self reliance. Long story short, if you expect to require an axe then bring your own. Not sure if there's bush etiquette concerning the sharing of blade tools but it never hurts to be perfectly capable and entirely self-sufficient. As a group member then obviously it's pragmatic to share the (only) fire with your companions. It's the sociable thing thing to do. Whether you're sharing group meal prep or just the fire and each cooking ones own meal it doesn't hurt to come prepared for going solo in a group.

 

[Paddlinhal]

Definitely a lot of different approaches to cooking and campfires. I have become accustomed to rebuilding the fireplace to fit my fire irons, which are about the same length as my saw when folded. The fireplace has 2 low sides for the irons and a taller back to move the smoke. At some point the fire gets stoked with larger pieces and the reflector oven gets put in place facing the open front of the fireplace. Something tasty gets baked for dessert while swilling down the Mountain House. After the baking some still larger but never bigger than a forearm get put on, and a supply of spruce boughs or even just grass is fed onto the fire. Smudges are remarkably bug-free, and you don't have to stand in the smoke to get the full effect. But you don't want to smudge your cookware. So for cooking I like freshly split cedar, as it seems to burn clean and at a nice temperature.

By the way, my axe is a 2-1/4 pound Snow and Nealley, 27", I believe was known as a Forester's Cruiser. It was my father's and he built a log cabin on an island starting in high school and finishing it after the war. At one point he dropped the axe into his foot, and had to use it as a cane to get to the nearest house, and obviously they had to get him to the water, chuck him in a boat and run him 10 miles down to Portland to patch him up. But the axe head is loose and there's a crack in the handle and I don't seem to have the skill to hang a new one.

 

[Cheeseandbeans]

I bought this small axe (Bison Mountain Hatchet) a few years ago for splitting in the woodshop to feed a small wood stove. I have since taken it on several trips and enjoy using it. It is forged, but doesn't have the price tag of the Gransfors, hults, wetterlings etc. It's a bit smaller than a boy's axe, light, and keeps an edge well. I agree it isn't essential, but you could say that about many items we like to bring. Most of my trips these days aren't about putting the miles in, but slowing down and enjoying the time in camp as well. I also agree with Foxyotter that the skill in using an axe shouldn't be learned while tripping. I have been tap splitting on rocks for years with no chips yet. I use very little effort and a thinner bit or blade really helps.

Bob

 

[Guest]

By the way, my axe is a 2-1/4 pound Snow and Nealley, 27", I believe was known as a Forester's Cruiser. It was my father's and he built a log cabin on an island starting in high school and finishing it after the war.

But the axe head is loose and there's a crack in the handle and I don't seem to have the skill to hang a new one.

Hal, I don’t mean to doubt your degree of ineptitude, but that axe, with that history, deserves a new handle. I’m no great shakes at woodworking, but I’ve hung a half dozen axes using store bought hickory handles. Shaping the shoulder is simply a matter of going a little bit at a time with a file (or 1” belt sander) until it is a snug, proper length fit.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...-axe-questions

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...il-and-trouble

CT’er Jamie has a good photo tutorial on replacing an axe handle, but he went the whole 9 yards and built a handle from scratch.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...e-handle-build

Luckily my local country hardware store carries a good selection of axe handles in various shapes and sizes. I took in the old, some very old, axe head and handle and picked out the size & shape I wanted. There was some difference in grain tightness and run out amongst the available handles and eenie meenie miney mo my mother told me to pick the very best one.

Working on old axes was enough fun that I eventually refurbished one for myself.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...ew-axe-project

That “Boy’s axe” is nicely sized for a canoe trip. It has yet to go on one, but will next time. On the last group trip we had 7 guys, one a forester, 7 saws. . . .and no axe. It was wet and we had some logs that needed splitting.One of the guys had packed a miniature hatchet thing, kinda like this

https://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-002...9022091&sr=8-8

Better than nothing, but not by much. Next group trip I’m bringing that Boys axe. And I bet if we have 7 guys we will have at least 4 axes.

Hal, give it a shot. $12 for a handle and a bit of shop time and that piece of family history would be good as new.

https://www.truevalue.com/catalog/pr...category/4975/

 

[Paddlinhal]

Yeah, I started to hang one but I just couldn't get to liking the store bought handle. The original is straight shafted and so much thinner. The blade is going to strike at a different angle with the new handle. I don't even know if that's an issue. I think I'll go hunt down Geoff Burke and ask him.​​​​​​​

 

[Foxyotter]

I just remembered one story where the axe was the victim. A couple of years ago on the Two Hearted River in UP of Michigan I was attempting to trim a few branches obstructing the river from canoe passage and decided to used the axe because the saw was in a different boat. My bow paddler stated that I am not sure using the axe in the canoe is the best idea. I admitted he was probable correct and said I would be careful After a couple awkward swings I gave one last swing and the axe slid right out of my wet hands and straight to the bottom of the river never to be seen again. Luckily for me it was a cheap axe and it didn't end up hitting me or the boat. I don't think I would ever spend the money for a Gransfors. I don't doubt the quality of the Gransfors or similar axes but unless I was building a cabin or attempting to survive long term with limited tools I can't rationalize the cost. For 25 to 50 dollars I can purchase an axe that is at least 80% as good as a Granfors axe. I even feel that way about knives to some extent. Is the a 150 dollar knife really twice as good as a 75 dollar knife?