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Another Kite Canoe Build
- Thread starter dogbrain
- Start date
Looks great. Nice work on the gunwales. Can't wait to see them oiled.
Welcome to the club. "Why am I putting this one when I know I just need to sand it back off again? Ooops, went too. Do it all over again."
I've been test paddling two of mine without varnish because I didn't want to wait. They'll get a good washing, sanding, and another washing before varnish. Bonus is that the scratches they've already accumulated will go away.
Alan
Welcome to the club. "Why am I putting this one when I know I just need to sand it back off again? Ooops, went too. Do it all over again."
I've been test paddling two of mine without varnish because I didn't want to wait. They'll get a good washing, sanding, and another washing before varnish. Bonus is that the scratches they've already accumulated will go away.
Alan
Mark,
The Kite looks great!! As far as waiting for varnish, don't! I also often paddle my boats before the final coats of varnish go on. As Alan says, then you can hide the first group of scratches. Nice stems and gunnels too...
I should mention that I once (on my 19 ft strip built sailboat) rushed to varnish the hull. After a day or so, a few wrinkly spots started showing up, after a week the hull looked as if it was diseased!! It set me back 2 weeks, couldn't sand it (too gooey), didn't dare use any solvents. Ended up scraping for a week.
So now, I wait for a while before varnishing.
The Kite looks great!! As far as waiting for varnish, don't! I also often paddle my boats before the final coats of varnish go on. As Alan says, then you can hide the first group of scratches. Nice stems and gunnels too...
I should mention that I once (on my 19 ft strip built sailboat) rushed to varnish the hull. After a day or so, a few wrinkly spots started showing up, after a week the hull looked as if it was diseased!! It set me back 2 weeks, couldn't sand it (too gooey), didn't dare use any solvents. Ended up scraping for a week.
So now, I wait for a while before varnishing.
I thought scuppers would actually cut the weight slightly. Never done them but I figured with scuppers you'd still end up with a 3/4" gunwale but at about 3/4 the weight because of the empty spaces.
Alan
I usually figure 3/8" outwhale,1/4" hull, and 3/4" inwhale, including scuppers= 1 3/8". Without the scuppers it's 1" total thickness.
So the Ash scuppers, without weighing, I'm guessing adds 2-3# on a 16' canoe.
I like the extra thickness of the inwhale with scuppers to attach seat and thwarts to..
So the Ash scuppers, without weighing, I'm guessing adds 2-3# on a 16' canoe.
I like the extra thickness of the inwhale with scuppers to attach seat and thwarts to..
OK then. I've put the canoe on top of my car and am heading up the valley to Daley Lake to put it in the water. I stayed up late last night and put a coat of Watco on the gunwales, so they should be a little protected. Wish me well!
Mark
Mark
Very nice looking canoe!
C'mon!! The suspense is killing me! Oh wait, you're in a different time zone, two of them, in fact...
Alright, I'll wait impatiently to hear your impressions.
I had a great time out in my canoe. It was a little breezy out on the lake, but the wind died down as I paddled all the way around. I was hoping for some real wind and waves to give it a real test, but not today. I was surprised at the initial stability of this canoe without any weight in it. I was able to stand up with little difficulty. Much less tippy than my kayaks. The seat placement seems fine, but there is plenty of adjustment anyway. Seat height seems OK, but I think I'll add some 1" spacers to see how that feels. I have pretty long arms and with the boat feeling so stable I think it will be more comfortable being a little further up off the water. The canoe seems to accelerate quickly, but is certainly limited on the top end. It tracks reasonably well, and responds well to corrections, and turns quickly and easily. Since I added an inch to the sheer line it seems a little susceptible to the wind, but with a little more weight in it things should be fine.
I stopped at the grocery store on the way home and there was a small gathering around my boat while I was waiting at the checkout. I'm sure they were wondering why the boat has shiny patches and dull faded patches
Here are a few photos and a video:
I stopped at the grocery store on the way home and there was a small gathering around my boat while I was waiting at the checkout. I'm sure they were wondering why the boat has shiny patches and dull faded patches
Here are a few photos and a video:
Wow, I could have written that! My Kite surprised me with the initial stability, secondary is pretty darn good too! Maneuverable for sure, hull speed is easily reached but not easily exceeded. You sure have a nice background in the photos!
And I'm sure the grocery store crowd didn't even notice any finish variances, they were eyeballing the hull shape and wood color and grain...
And I'm sure the grocery store crowd didn't even notice any finish variances, they were eyeballing the hull shape and wood color and grain...
So you would go with less width on the inwale without the scupper? If I remember correctly, you add blocks to the rails for scuppers, where as I just router out the slot in the 3/4" width. Weight also depends on wood used. I try to stay away from Ash due to the excessive weight.
Back to the bubble issue. I can't remember if this was mentioned or not but the last thing I do after rolling on epoxy is to tip it out with a foam brush. There are always lots of bubbles in the finish until that final step. I think a bristle brush would do a nicer job but I don't trust myself to clean it out every time so I use the disposable foam ones instead.
Alan
I rented a Wenonah Prism last fall and was expecting this hull to be similar, but it definitely had more initial stability. I did lean it over quite a bit and couldn't get it to roll. With the water still pretty cold I wasn't really prepared to take a swim.
I did use a foam brush and everything else to try and get the bubbles under control. I think once the problem started with the wetout coat, they stayed with me thoughout the fill coats. I would love for others to take a photo of some epoxy in a cup just prior to using, after mixing. Even with my final patching I am still getting quite a few bubbles in the mix. I'm trying to keep the agitation down as much as possible, so I don't know what's going on. When I put on the epoxy the bubbles are there and almost impossible to knock down. I have some west system epoxy that I'll use for a paddle repair I'm doing tomorrow, so I'll see if I notice a difference.
Plenty of freeboard and lots of adjustments that can be made in the seat and foot bar locations. I'm starting varnish on Wednesday morning. That will be one whole week since the last epoxy patches.
I have a question about gluing d-rings to the inside of the boat that I'll ask in the DIY section.
Mark
I almost always have bubbles in my cup after mixing. Letting it sit or it hitting it with a heat gun helps get rid of them but if I'm going to be applying with a roller I don't bother trying to get rid of the bubbles in the cup since I know I'll be introducing more with the roller. Usually a few bubbles on the surface after rolling but tipping out with the brush gets rid of them.
The thinner the epoxy the fewer bubbles I get in the mixing cup. Adtech Probuild is rated somewhere around 950 centipoise and I get lots of bubbles. Raka at around 600 centipoise is considerably less and again with Adtech 820 at around 450. My vinylester resin, rated around 250, seems almost impossible to introduce bubbles into.
Alan
I realized today that I hadn't closed out this thread with some photos of the finished canoe in action. Here's a photo at nearby Hyalite Reservoir. The setting makes for a nice photo. I filled some water jugs with water to see how the canoe handled with a little more of a load. It's no surprise that it felt even more stable.
Weekend before last we did a trip on the Jefferson River past Missouri Headwaters State Park and on down the Missouri to Townsend Montana, a 2 night trip. Two others were in sea kayaks and one person in a Kruger Sea Wind, not really a fair matchup for speed and keeping the canoe in a straight line.
Not much to add regarding how the boat handles from my previous post. The only thing I will say is that this boat exhibits the typical unruliness that a solo boat shows with a tailwind. We had quite a windy afternoon one day and it was difficult and on a couple of occasions impossible to keep the thing from broaching without almost coming to a complete stop. I was really jealous of my paddling partners with their rudders. The boat handles crossing eddy lines quite well, with minimal instability as the bow swings around. Quite predictable.
Sunset on the Upper upper Missouri River.
The End
Oh, and I almost forgot to add that I wouldn't have begun this adventure without the examples and very thoughtful help of people in the canoetripping community. I have learned many new skills, had a really good time and produced something I am really happy with. Thanks again!
Mark
Weekend before last we did a trip on the Jefferson River past Missouri Headwaters State Park and on down the Missouri to Townsend Montana, a 2 night trip. Two others were in sea kayaks and one person in a Kruger Sea Wind, not really a fair matchup for speed and keeping the canoe in a straight line.
Not much to add regarding how the boat handles from my previous post. The only thing I will say is that this boat exhibits the typical unruliness that a solo boat shows with a tailwind. We had quite a windy afternoon one day and it was difficult and on a couple of occasions impossible to keep the thing from broaching without almost coming to a complete stop. I was really jealous of my paddling partners with their rudders. The boat handles crossing eddy lines quite well, with minimal instability as the bow swings around. Quite predictable.
Sunset on the Upper upper Missouri River.
The End
Oh, and I almost forgot to add that I wouldn't have begun this adventure without the examples and very thoughtful help of people in the canoetripping community. I have learned many new skills, had a really good time and produced something I am really happy with. Thanks again!
Mark
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Mark,
Great photos!! I must admit I'm a little jealous of where you live and paddle...but then again, I have the ADK's as my backyard, so maybe it's one of those greener grass things.
And your Kite sure is a pretty young thing...I really like the lines, I suppose you might too!
Do you get a lot of comments on it when you're paddling?
I am surprised that the hull suffers from stern hook. That was one of the reasons why I chose to build a Kite, I expected it would be barely susceptible to stern hook.
I recently paddled in sustained 25 mph winds, coming over my right shoulder, just the worst sort of tailwaind. One of my paddling companions was in a Rapidfire (with a double ended paddle) and he suffered badly. My other companion that day was in a Hemlock Kestrel, he did OK. My Kite was a delight, but I did need to shift weight aft slightly.
Great photos!! I must admit I'm a little jealous of where you live and paddle...but then again, I have the ADK's as my backyard, so maybe it's one of those greener grass things.
And your Kite sure is a pretty young thing...I really like the lines, I suppose you might too!
Do you get a lot of comments on it when you're paddling?
I am surprised that the hull suffers from stern hook. That was one of the reasons why I chose to build a Kite, I expected it would be barely susceptible to stern hook.
I recently paddled in sustained 25 mph winds, coming over my right shoulder, just the worst sort of tailwaind. One of my paddling companions was in a Rapidfire (with a double ended paddle) and he suffered badly. My other companion that day was in a Hemlock Kestrel, he did OK. My Kite was a delight, but I did need to shift weight aft slightly.
Stripperguy, I've seen pictures of where you paddle and I think you are correct about the grass is greener thing. I'd like to paddle in your backyard someday. I'm afraid that I regret not having painted my boat (the next one will be painted). As much as I enjoy having somebody appreciate my work, I quickly tire of the same conversation regarding the boat.
In terms of handling the canoe, I can't say that I'm more than a novice with a dedicated solo canoe. The wind we had was similar to yours with gusts a little higher. I've tried a couple of different boats for week long trips in the past, and the Kite feels similar to those from my memory. I should have, but didn't take the opportunity to do much testing in terms of altering the trim of the boat on this trip, nor did I attempt to change paddling position any. I would have to try several boats under the same conditions to really be sure of the validity of my observations. All I know is that those decked boats I was with, that are lower in the water and have rudders, were almost oblivious to the wind, and I was struggling to keep the canoe from arcing out. During the build I did add an inch of height to my canoe, but I don't know if that would be a significant factor or not. We have a lake nearby that's always windy and I plan to get out there soon to play around with weight distribution.
Thanks again for all your help. Mark
In terms of handling the canoe, I can't say that I'm more than a novice with a dedicated solo canoe. The wind we had was similar to yours with gusts a little higher. I've tried a couple of different boats for week long trips in the past, and the Kite feels similar to those from my memory. I should have, but didn't take the opportunity to do much testing in terms of altering the trim of the boat on this trip, nor did I attempt to change paddling position any. I would have to try several boats under the same conditions to really be sure of the validity of my observations. All I know is that those decked boats I was with, that are lower in the water and have rudders, were almost oblivious to the wind, and I was struggling to keep the canoe from arcing out. During the build I did add an inch of height to my canoe, but I don't know if that would be a significant factor or not. We have a lake nearby that's always windy and I plan to get out there soon to play around with weight distribution.
Thanks again for all your help. Mark
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