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Tools for Newbies

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Hey all - To say I'm blown away whenever I read posts in this area is an understatement. While I've taken on the occasional repair task, I've never really done anything that requires much experience. Beyond hand sanding gunwales and re-oiling them, I'm pretty much out of my league. That being said, I've decided it's time to (try) and take the leap. I currently have a tandem canoe that was made years ago by Dave Curtis. It blew up on shore in Cooperstown, NY and after 3 years of trying to find the owner, I purchased it from the person who's property the canoe landed on. I purchased the appropriate gunwales from Dave last year and have sanded, stained and oiled them. Now I'm at the point where I need to fix the minor cracks in the hull, wash it down and bring back the original deep green, install new seats/thwarts and get the gunwales on. While this doesn't have to be a work of art when completed, I do want this to be a nice usable canoe because I'm doing this for my daughter, son-in-law and 4 grandsons.

So, all that being said, what kind of tools & supplies would you recommend to someone in my situation? I'm open to any and all suggestions but please realize that I'm not unduly rich. I'm more than willing to invest in quality tools, etc. but since I have no real knowledge in this area, suggestions from folks like you as to how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help you can give me.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well (and happy paddling!).

snapper

PS - If this goes relatively well I'll probably look for other canoes to do it again so the investment in tools is definitely worth it to me.
 
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It sounds like you need some basic things like some kind of drill and bits (tapered bits with the countersink are nice) a screwdriver with multiple bits (ratcheting is definitely worth it) a block plane and a thumb plane and some way to keep those blades sharp, really sharp.
That's mud off the top of my head.
Jim
 
You can do a lot with a circular saw if you get creative but a tablesaw makes many of the tasks easier.

A jigsaw can come in handy and is relatively inexpensive.

Cordless drill.

Japanese pull saw is nice. I use a $12 Irwin.

You could get by sanding everything by hand but a good random orbit sander will make your life a lot easier. You can get good and cheap sandpaper for them at industrialabrasives.com. Crappy sandpaper sucks and is mostly what you'll find at local hardware stores; at least around here anyway.

An interface pad (piece of foam that goes between the disc and sander) for an orbital sander makes sanding curved surfaces much easier. It's also nice for rounded over sharp edges and corners. I shape all kinds of things with an orbital sander and interface pad in 1-2 minutes that I used to do by hand in 15 minutes or more.

Don't need anything fancy for working with fiberglass and resin. Mixing cups and brushes. Foam rollers if you want to do the entire hull. For $10-15 you can get a good kitchen scale (5-7lb) that's accurate and makes measuring out resin a lot easier.

Clamps. Seems like you can never have enough clamps. I bought a bunch of the Irwin squeeze clamps when they were on sale locally. I've also got a bunch of screw clamps and other squeeze clamps that I've picked up at local auctions. Those cheap plastic bunny ear spring clamps can come in handy for many tasks. You can get them on Amazon for dirt cheap. I probably have about 100 in various sizes and sometimes use just about all of them at once.

You'll probably want a shop vac for cleaning up the shop and vacuuming dust and dirt of canoe hulls. Get it connected to your orbital sander (if you get one). I'll never go back to sanding without a vacuum. It's a night and day difference.

A bench mounted disc sander is nice for outside curves.

An oscillating spindle sander is extremely handy for inside curves.

Both of these can be picked up pretty cheaply ($125-200). They're cheap with plastic bodies but seem to do fine in a non-production shop. My buddy the professional cabinet maker gave me his $125 spindle sander when he upgraded. I've been using it regularly the past 2-3 years and it does great although is a little low on power when you bear down with hardwoods.

You really don't need much to do most of the tasks. Best tool you've got is a flexible brain as it can figure out how to accomplish all sorts of tasks with basic and simple tools. But if you've got the room and money better tools make a huge difference in how quickly and easily you can do the work.

Alan
 
I think you definitely need a large band saw, table saw, drill press and a dust collector, a 30 x 40 insulated shop with 10 feet sealing.... Just kidding! A pull saw, a small block plane, a drill and a few bits, clamps, lots of clamps( you can borrow some when in need) a few sheet of sand paper( you can use it to sharpen plane blades...600-800-1000 grit for that purpose works)... You don't need any power tools, if you don't have the budget. Buy quality tool, it is to expensive to buy cheep stuff!!
 
All of the above !

I'd up grade a Japanese pull saw, from an Irwin, to one made in Japan ! Night and day difference !

I also Highly recommend a Japanese Saw Rasp. It's two sided, course, and fine. It resembles hacksaw blades, bent and riveted together. Next to the pull saw, hands down best hand tools I use !

Never have enough clamps, or shop space !

Jim
 
All of the above !

I'd up grade a Japanese pull saw, from an Irwin, to one made in Japan ! Night and day difference !

I also Highly recommend a Japanese Saw Rasp. It's two sided, course, and fine. It resembles hacksaw blades, bent and riveted together. Next to the pull saw, hands down best hand tools I use !

Never have enough clamps, or shop space !

Jim

Shinto rasp.
 
Now I'm at the point where I need to fix the minor cracks in the hull

Don't need anything fancy for working with fiberglass and resin. Mixing cups and brushes. Foam rollers if you want to do the entire hull. For $10-15 you can get a good kitchen scale (5-7lb) that's accurate and makes measuring out resin a lot easier.

Release treated peel ply.

For patching and repairing cracks using fiberglass (or other cloth) release treated peel ply is your friend. The cut ends and frays/strays or the seamed edge of glass tape will largely disappear with peel ply.

Peel ply will leave a slight fabric weave imprint while eliminating most of the sanding, especially if your first attempts at glass and epoxy work are learning curve sloppy. Amine blush will be eliminated or at least lessened because the blush will reside atop the peel ply. If your epoxy application is uneven peel ply will smooth out the bumps and sags.

The time saved and improved appearance of patch work done using peel ply is well worth the additional expense.

Some other minor tools and materials.

Disposable gloves. See DougD’s story about needing to take a leak with epoxy on his fingers.

A good pair of scissors. Reserve them for cutting only fiberglass and they will stay sharp and effective for a long time. If you find the need to cut adhesive tape or some long dangly resin dripping fray use the crap shop scissors.

Single edge razor blades are nice too.

A can of acetone, for when you inadvertently dribble epoxy somewhere. Rags or paper towels at the ready.

Masking tape, painters tape and newspaper to box out the areas to be patched and catch epoxy drips and runs before they creep on to unintended areas of the hull.

Disposable mixing cups and disposable paint brushes. I lay out an extra cup and brush (or roller) before I start any epoxy work, just in case I accidentally contaminate the pot or drop the brush on the floor. I lay out an extra pair of disposable gloves as well.

Depending on your epoxy application some thickener, colloidal silica, 403 microfibers or etc.
 
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Well, to mount gunwales you are going to need an electric drill, a set of jobber bits, and a countersink appropriately sized for your gunwale screws (probably #8 size). I find that I can get by with about 6 spring clamps when installing gunwales, one to hold the wood in approximate position at each end and two on either side of the gunwale screw I am installing. You start at the center screw and move the clamps toward the stems as you go. It is best to make sure that the hull is at the designated gunwale width when installing the gunwales. You may need to "jack" the hull out a bit at center with a stick of appropriate length. An electric screw driver, or a variable speed drill with a clutch that can function as one is nice to have.

You will need a saw to trim the ends of thwarts, gunwales, and seat frames. Pretty much anything will do but I prefer a coping saw since it makes nice, fine cuts. Most canoe makers use #10 stainless machine screws to mount thwarts and seats. Drill holes in your seat frames and thwarts with a bit slightly oversized.

You might find that you can very significantly improve the appearance of a gel-coated hull by wet sanding it. You will need a fair bit of good quality waterproof paper. 3M paper is probably the best I have used. Depending on the depth of scratches I would start with 180-220 grit and work progressively down to 1500-2000 grit. You may need to go to an auto parts store to find the very fine grades. A little spray bottle filled with water is handy to have while wet sanding. I use the foam sanding sponges made by 3M as flexible sanding blocks for wet sanding curved surfaces. Just wrap the paper around them. They can be cut into smaller sizes if needed.

After wet sanding, buff the hull with a finishing glaze. I like 3M Finesse-It II. An automotive buffer with soft bonnets is very nice to have. I bought one cheap at Harbor Freight which works fine for the purpose.

It is not clear whether or not the "cracks" you describe are just in the gel coat (which are cosmetic) or whether any actual hull patching is required. For cutting cloth (fiberglass, aramid, carbon fiber, Dynel) I use the cheapest scissors I can find can generally be had for $1/pair. They work very well for a while and when they no longer do I pitch them.
 
For cutting cloth (fiberglass, aramid, carbon fiber, Dynel) I use the cheapest scissors I can find can generally be had for $1/pair. They work very well for a while and when they no longer do I pitch them.

Some clarification. I didn’t mean using a pair of German surgical scissors. I use a pair or relatively inexpensive Fiskars.

But I use that pair of scissors only for cutting FRP materials. That alone, since they are used less frequently, keeps them sharper longer.

It also helps that the scissors I use to cut fiberglass are not used for cardboard, adhesive tape or sandpaper. Even plain paper is abrasive, and cutting adhesive tapes eventually leaves some residual goo on the blades. BTW, I occasionally clean the blades of my general purpose shop scissors with acetone to remove any accumulated residue.

Those scissors are Sharpie marked “GLASS” on the handle and I store them with my FRP materials so I don’t inadvertently grab them to cut duct tape or sandpaper.

I don’t cut fiberglass every day, or even every week, but I have been using the same pair of reserved scissors for 5 or 6 years and they cut as well as they did brand new.
 
Release treated peel ply.

For patching and repairing cracks using fiberglass (or other cloth) release treated peel ply is your friend. The cut ends and frays/strays or the seamed edge of glass tape will largely disappear with peel ply.

I don't know how many times I'll have to say it before anyone tries it, but you can get polyester dress lining from any Wal-Mart or fabric store. It's way cheaper and works just as well. I've never had any issues removing it as long as the frayed cut edges stay clear of the epoxy. I've pulled it off after full cure several times without issue.
 
If you go for a hand plane, don't assume you need something new. An old, $12 Stanley from a garage sale is not hard to tune up, assuming the sole (Bottom) is flat. This will also give you the know-how required to maintain your plane, even a new, fancy model.

Don't discount the handiness of having a nice, sharp flat chisel for certain situations - again, nothing fancy.

Both of the above need to be kept sharp. A low-initial-cost method includes a small piece of plate glass and automotive wet-dry paper up to about 2000 grit. Google for instructions.

If a cordless drill seems pricey, a corded version + extension cord works well, just need to drag the cord around. Not a big deal if you only do this once in a while, and the corded versions usually have a little more reserve power for things like a sanding drum set - Not as flexible pr powerful as that oscillating spindle sander, but for a one time project, might do the job.

Also, raid every Garage sale you can for clamps. It is literally impossible to have too many.

Popsicle sticks if you are messing with epoxy. It sounds stupid, but the $0.93 to have a handy pack of slim, disposable mixing tools without hunting around is very well worth it.

Peel Ply - never used the real stuff, but cheap Polyester "Interfacing" fabric off the discount rack works well, if sprayed with silicone film lubricant.
 
I don't know how many times I'll have to say it before anyone tries it, but you can get polyester dress lining from any Wal-Mart or fabric store. It's way cheaper and works just as well. I've never had any issues removing it as long as the frayed cut edges stay clear of the epoxy. I've pulled it off after full cure several times without issue.

I'm going to have to try that ! I remember you suggesting this before.
 
Popsicle sticks if you are messing with epoxy. It sounds stupid, but the $0.93 to have a handy pack of slim, disposable mixing tools without hunting around is very well worth it.

Second the dollar bag of popsicle sticks. That crafts rack in the big box store also offers tiny “artists” disposable paintbrushes, a bag of 30 tiny brushes for 97 cents. Those are handy for when you need to lay a fine bead of epoxy or filler.

Actually a lot of the disposables can be had in one trip to Wallyworld. Popsicle sticks, tiny paint brushes, mixing pots (disposable plastic cups, I like disposable shot glasses for mixing wee batches of epoxy).

I’ve never tried the polyester dress lining trick, but it would be easier to find a peel ply type material at a big box store than to order it from Express Composites, especially if you needed it tomorrow and not next week.
 
Agreed.

Supplies:
Popsicle sticks, tape, gloves, acetone, etc...

Tools:
Clamps
More clamps
And maybe some extra clamps.

Any cheap drill

Skills aw

Block plane

Some sort of work bench or shop table

Just for starters. After some experience you'll easily be able to figure out which things you don't want to do by hand and which things would look a lot nicer if you had proper (special) tools.

Jason
 
To everyone who took the time to reply to my post...THANKS!!! I really appreciate the collective wisdom of this group. There were a few things I thought I was already aware of (i.e., the fact that you can never have too many clamps) but the rest is truly helpful. I don't see myself ever becoming a builder but I'd love to be able to make decent repairs. All the help I've received should put me down the right road and I'm grateful for the suggestions.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...

be well.

snapper
 
Thank you Mike M and Muskrat for the info on release fabrics...I will try that too. I 'noodle' with projects like that for other folk's oars, camp boxes, etc and always thought of peel ply for large panel jobs. I struggle with those annoying cut tape ends that seem to always be unraveling.

I would also recommend a gallon of cheap vinegar (it works cleaning wonders) for wiping down all sorts of things and places (!!!) where epoxy isn't supposed to be applied. And good paper towels (not borrowed from the wife's kitchen) just for your shop.

A good to better car wax (thanks also to pblanc) over a buffed surface can make the finish POP! too...Formula 303 Protectant can bring back to life the same sort of surfaces but has a shorter lifespan.
 
If your repairs ever involve making your own gunwales, thwarts, and yokes then you'll find a router (and router table) come in very handy. A few basic round over and cutting bits and you're good to go.

Alan
 
Other boat repair stuff. I am dinking with a boat in the shop, this could run long.

A sturdy platform to hold the canoe at a decent work level. Something holding the hull so that it isn’t going to walk around or wiggle out of position on either gunwales up or gunwales down. Or, sometimes, on its side. A pair of 30-ish inch tall sawhorses work fine for me.

If the boat is moving while you are working on it you are wasting time, energy and accuracy. With a canoe gunwales down I use little Quick Grip clamps on the sawhorse crossbars against the outwale or, one canoes where the gunwales do not rest level, clamp down the inwales.

Add a couple of foam blocks, wedges, chucks, straps, whatever to the sawhorse crossbar for upright hull stability. Again, if the hull is moving, wiggling or walking away you have the disadvantage of a moving target.

Sometimes it helps to have the hull captured on one side. For patching cracks at the sheerline I rather have the area to be resined held horizontal/levelish. A couple of furniture clamps or long-bar Quick Grips on the sawhorse will do. If I have a lot of work to do on one chine I just screw some padded L-brackets into the sawhorse to capture the hull held sideways.

A bucket, sponge/scrubbie and hose. Contaminates on a hull are the enemy of epoxy adhesion, so before beginning any boat work I scrub the canoe inside and out. On a major, week’s long rebuild project I may wash the boat several times over the course of work, the secondary washes to get rid of any sanding dust, amine blush or contaminates that may have gotten on the boat in the interim.

An initial thorough scrubbing is a good way to get up close and personal with the state of the hull, and often reveals additional areas in need of attention that previously passed the 30 foot test. I use dish soap, but there are probably better cleaning agents. Steer clear of car wash-and-wax in one type stuff.

A bottle of alcohol. Not bourbon, although that’s good too. A bottle of 70 or 91 percent isopropyl rubbing alcohol (another big box item). After the hull has dried from washing I clean any area needing epoxy work with alcohol. If I am not dong a green top fill with epoxy I lightly wash, sand and alcohol the area first to remove any amine blush after the epoxy has cured.

Amine blush is a greasy feeling film that develops atop some epoxies. Hot temps/fast cures may be especially prone to amine blush. Additional epoxy coats over amine blush are bad, but varnish or paint over amine blush is a gooey nightmare.

If you can chose your work time/season having moderate temps is a good thing. We don’t have AC in our home, but I install a small window unit in the shop for work during mid-Atlantic summers. On the winter side if I am working on a gunwales down canoe a radiant oil heater on a low setting positioned under the hull does wonders for capturing warmth in the hull. Having shop temps fall slightly as a large resin job sets up can help reduce outgassing bubbles.

Aside from the parts, tools and materials the most important thing for me is to have a logical, sequential plan of action, thought out in advance. Some parts of a plan are obvious; I don’t want to do the epoxy work and immediately move on to drilling holes in the boat or making dust in the shop. I tend to leave the day’s epoxy work ‘til the end of the shop spell, when it is time to walk away.

Speaking of time to walk away, I expect that everyone who has ever worked with resin and cloth has at some point made things worse by continuing to screw with the just laid cloth. Most typically this starts with “Oh, there’s a fray, I’ll just push it back or cut it off. . . .crap, now its worse. . . .maybe if I. . . . oh, double worse”. Peel ply has largely eliminated that temptation.

Dust is always an issue. I run a shop vac to pick up any dust in the hull as soon as I have made it. Major dust making tasks are better performed outside the shop, but sometimes (weather) that just isn’t possible. If you have made major dust in the shop know that not only it has gotten everywhere, some of it is still airborne and continuing to settle. As Alan noted a shop vac hooked to an RO or other power sander helps immensely, but there is still going to be dust in the boat and in the air.

That’s all part of the sequential step action plan. I actually write the steps of that plan down as a process reminder, and most often I find myself adding steps. Step #1, #2. . . . add steps #2B, #2C. . . . #3

That has the added benefit of making me think. And also, beneficially, slowing me down. Slow is fast. The most time consuming mistakes I have made were a result of going too fast, and most of them were rushing (or skipping) some prep work stage.

A lot of success rests simply in prep work, nowhere more so than working with resin and cloth. All the stuff needed laid out at the ready, materials cut to size, hull area cleaned and masked off if necessary. Laying a small patch with cloth, resin and peel ply takes minutes once everything is ready, preparing the hull takes far longer. Two minutes of epoxy work, 20 minutes of prep work.

When I do finally get to walk away time I stop and consult the plan for the next day’s activities. OK, it isn’t quite yet time to walk away. Before calling it quits I look over the revised plan and lay out all of the tools, parts and materials I need for the next day. (OK, I anal retentive put away all of the day’s tools and clean off the benches first).

It is nice to be able to jump right back into sequence of work, but even better when I know I already have everything I need. It sucks to be psyched to start work only to discover that, dammit, I’m out of sanding disks or brushes or etc. The nearest hardware store is less than a half hour away, but that is still an hour+ shot to heck when I could be working in the shop.

Not necessary for a first boat project, but if you do discover joy in boatwork and find other fixer uppers it pays, or saves, to buy disposable brushes in quantity. A box of 3 dozen brushes will get used up quick enough, and they don’t go bad.

Lastly, some personal protective equipment. Gloves, of course. A dust mask or respirator, especially if making lots of uncaptured sanding dust. Shop glasses or goggles, mostly for eye encrusting dust again, but also for flying surprises. One PPE item I would not have thought to be as comforting, ear plugs or muffs. RO sanding on a canoe, especially a composite hull, can produce a maddening harmonic vibration thrum. I last a lot longer RO sanding when wearing ear protection.

I have developed some sensitivity after repeated exposure to fiberglass or resin sanding dust. My sensitivity nemesis seems to be sanded Vinylester dust, and I wish I had been more thoroughly gloved and gowned starting years ago. As soon as I have finished a major composite sanding job I need to shower and change clothes. Actually the first thing I do is go outside and blow myself off with a leaf blower. If I neglect to follow that protocol I will pay an itchy price.

The PPE that I overlook most often is clothing. No, I’m not the Buck Naked of canoe repairs. But most often ( = almost every time) I start doing some epoxy or varnish or paint work and realize too late that I am wearing my last, almost unstained, shirt or pants. If I own 20 tee shirts 19 of them have some boatworking stain, spatter or schmutz.

PS - If this goes relatively well I'll probably look for other canoes to do it again so the investment in tools is definitely worth it to me.

There is a peculiar joy in bringing a canoe back to life. Most of what is needed is pretty simple stuff that quickly gets better with practice. It is a great way to appreciate different manufacturer’s construction techniques and outfitting styles, which opens a more educated understanding of what you like in a canoe.

And every boat presents different challenges. It is like completing a floating Sudoku, and if you get the wrong answer in one square you can usually sand away the mistake and try again.
 
Since you have all ready been in contact with Dave Curtis I wounder if he said anything about Flood Penetrol to bring back the deep green? Has it on his Hemlock canoe website and have seen were he recommends it for faded fiberglass canoes.

Thank you Mike McCrea for mentioning "a sturdy platform to hold the canoe at a decent work level." I have a set of custom (in other words home made) canoe cradles that double as saw horses. The cradles let me work on the inside of the canoe.
 
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