Three Choices for New Gunwales

[dougd]

I talked to the guys at the local lumber mill this morning. I have a MR Malecite which I need to work on including gunwales. At 16.6 I will need at least 18' of stock to mill out new gunwales. All they have in that length is Douglas Fir, Red Cedar and Ash. I am wondering if others have used Red Cedar for gunwales before and how easy is to work with ie: sanding, shaping, bending without steaming. I'm leaning towards that over ash as the Malecite is more of a slow river/lake boat for me and not WW. If I was using it in WW I'd go with Ash. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

dougd

 

[Alan Gage]

I'd use DF as a good compromise between weight, strength, and hardness. I don't think I'd like the red color of eastern red cedar unless it color coordinated with my hull. It would also be quite soft and prone to denting. But that doesn't mean it can't and hasn't been used.

I'm assuming they're talking about eastern red cedar unless they're getting western shipped in. The two are completely different.

Alan

 

[dougd]

Thanks Alan, I believe he said ERC. I've been using Poplar lately which I do like and so far has held up well. I was going to use Ash but I'm old and am trying to keep the weight down on my existing boats as I rehab them. I will look at the DF when I get ready to fix it up. Got 9 cold cracks to fix on a MR Explorer first.

 

[Cruiser]

Ditto on the DF ... good compromise of strength and weight ..... you are lucky to be able to source it locally. Choice 2 would be the ash, but I would reduce/adjust the dimensions as it is so much stronger than the other choices and it weighs proportionately more ... so to avoid overbuilding/overweighing, you need to reduce the amount you use.


Brian

 

[dougd]

Brian, I always used ash for gunwales I mill out but in the last couple of years I've been looking for something easier to work with and lighter. I usually cut them a little large so if I go ash I could certainly cut them down some. I believe on MR's the standard for wooden gunwales was something like 3/4's or so. On a 16' 6" boat what would be to thin to take it down from 3/4's"? It is a fiberglass hull.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Ash all the way !

even on my composites ! If not Ash, I'd go Aluminum !

My solos get 3/8" x 3/4" on the outwhale. My inwhales are scuppered, but measure 3/4" x 3/4". That would be my minimum.

Jim

 

[Fitz]

I am guessing it is Western Red Cedar. It is readily available at lumber yards even here back East and used for house trim and decking. I use that stock to get planking for my Old Town canoe projects. Even Old Town had it shipped in way back then. I would not use it for gunwales. It dents too easily and is remarkably brittle. I think I would go for the ash, even though it is a light duty canoe.

 

[latremorej]

Another vote for ash. I did use Doug Fir on a canoe and it was fine though. Lots of scarf joints to remove the knots. Even tiny ones the size of a pea caused breakage when bending on the form.. steam or no steam. I was using 3/4 x 3/4" for the gunnels and 3/8x3/8" for the stringers. (Skin boat)

Jason

 

[Guest]

Maybe have a look at their available 18’ planks, see how straight the grain is, check for any knots or grain run out, and then decide.

It is so hard to find a decent 18’ plank hereabouts that I’d want to rip as many gunwales as possible from a single plank.

Or use some other excess to shape thwarts for future use; while you are ripping and routing and sanding and making dust a batch of thwarts made and sanded could be varnished next time you have that can out and be ready to go, just cut to length and seal the butt ends. One 2” x 18’ long wide leftover is enough five or six thwarts.

How many sets of inwale/outwale can you rip from a single plank? If you use ash and skinny down your usual gunwale dimensions for the gentle use Malecite can you get another pair of inwale/outwales for a WW or heavy use canoe? Anything waiting in the wings that will need new gunwales? You know there will be eventually.

I know this has been discussed here and there on Canoe Tripping, but what dimensions do folks usually use for their wood gunwales? Different inwale/outwale sizing?

Cut skinnier for ash and larger for poplar, fir or cedar?

 

[Cruiser]

DougD .... on my last 16'3" solo I used cherry gunnels at 5/16" x 5/8", with a 45 degree bevel on the inside gunnel (for water run out) and those where fine, so if I was using ash, I would likely look at 1/4" x 5/8" for inner and outter gunnels. I would also add the inside bevel to let water flow easily out of the boat when inverted. If you need attachment points just epoxy on additional material where it is needed and shape it to be pleasing.

Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

Ash all the way !

even on my composites ! If not Ash, I'd go Aluminum !

My solos get 3/8" x 3/4" on the outwhale. My inwhales are scuppered, but measure 3/4" x 3/4". That would be my minimum.

Jim

Here you go Mike !

 

[Guest]

If not Ash, I'd go Aluminum !

Ask Doug about installing replacement aluminum gunwales. His response may be NSFW. I will neverever aluminum gunwales again.

Fudging that neverever, no AL gunwales not pre-bent to the sheerline curve and stem rise. Good luck finding those to fit the sheerline of an older model hull.

I would kinda like to try installing a (supposedly) easier-to-bend-into-place two piece aluminum gunwale systems. On the right canoe. If I could obtain them at a reasonable cost. And had encouragement that it wouldn’t still be a huge PITA.

 

[Alan Gage]

I've used lots of different thicknesses, profiles, and species of wood. I made my choices depending on wood available at the time and the intended usage of the boat. They've all done fine. I think most gunwales are totally overkill. Most canoes, unless running whitewater, even if used regularly, lead a pretty easy life.

But on the other hand overkill helps to compensate for un-noticed wood defects and accidents, like dropping the boat off the roof of your car.

Alan

 

[Mason]

But on the other hand overkill helps to compensate for un-noticed wood defects and accidents, like dropping the boat off the roof of your car.

Alan

Or backing over a loose painter while the canoe is on the truck....

 

[dougd]

Or leaving the painter lying in the grass and then catching it with the riding mower blade! Now that was disturbing to see my Disco coming at ramming speed!

 

[Iskweo]

Doug, I looked at my clever little chart and it lists Douglas Fir as slightly heavier than white or sitka spruce but with good rot resistance. Not as strong as the spruce either. Ash is best in all respects except it is much heavier.
We used red oak once ...dont go there. Doug Ingram has been using birch a bit...its pretty heavy though. I like to find fairly clear white spruce and scarf it together....if you use epoxy you will never break a scarf joint.

 

[dougd]

I believe I going to with ash and thin it down to what I think will work. It's a light duty boat, weekends and fairly light loads. I wasn't real keen on Douglas Fir or Cedar but am always looking for something new to play with on a rebuild.

 

[Jackpine Jerry]

I've built several canoes and Ash is the way to go although I've used cherry with great results too.

 

[BWCA66]

Why not vary the wood? Use something different for the inner and outer gunwales? I've always used Ash on the inners to hang seats but vary the outer.

 

[Iskweo]

Yes I second the vote for cherry. It makes reallllly nice gunwales. The Tremblays used mahogany which makes a very pretty but pretty heavy canoe. Spruce inners with cherry stain and cherry outwales ?