Seat height for tripping canoes.

[lowangle al]

I don’t remember the height of the seats on my stock malice were, but I do know that I liked paddling the boat better when I raised them to the gunnels. Since I did that I’ve been paddling a few wood canvas boats and really like the higher seats on them.

I recently got a modern composite Bell Seliga and didn’t like the low seats (9”). I paddled the boat quite a bit before deciding to raise the seats by cutting 1.5 inches off the drops. I liked it a lot better and came to the conclusion that for a tripping canoe seats need to be COMFORTABLY high.

The seats were now 11 inches and they were a lot more comfortable, but not quite as nice as the higher seats in my w/c boats. I experimented with some foam pads to see how much more I could raise them without sacrificing too much stability. I shot for the moon and used the three inch thick piece of foam I had on hand. It was comfortable but paddling seated solo from the stern Was a definitely a good exercise to see if you have a good brace. I cut that foam down to almost two inches and it improved stability to an acceptable level so I’m sticking with that. It left a piece of about an inch thick so I put that on the bow seat for my wife.

My luck with canoe seats has been pretty good lately. I was wondering what to use to make the black foam look better and protect it some. While looking in the car trunk for something else I spotted a bag of clothes destined for the goodwill. Right on top was a pair of green stretch pants that looked perfect. Here is the result.



I had since been watching some you tube videos with guys paddling nova craft prospectors. I noticed that their seats were too low. My guess is that is typical with other makes too. Probably about the same time the safety police encouraged manufacturers to move the stern seat forward they probably lowered it too. My guess is that it makes for a safer boat for beginners, but at the detriment of seasoned paddlers who could be enjoying the comfort and better leverage of a higher seat.

I feel that for a boat that you might been in for hours at a time comfort is important. Besides that I think I can generate more power with the higher seat. With the lower seat I could see why someone would want a foot brace to get more power. But I don’t feel the need with the higher seat. In addition with the seat at 9 inches I couldn’t finish my stroke properly without getting my hand wet. It caused me to bend and lift my arm at the end of the stroke, not good. It won’t be as stable as the lower seat, but for anything where stability is a concern you could kneel, which you would probably be doing anyway.

I would recommend anyone with a tripper with low seats do some experimenting to see if you like the benefits of a higher seat. You can use foam like I did so that you’re not committed. I think you may find it an improvement.

 

[Boatman53]

We would rent Northstar canoes when the went to the BWCA and the first think my friend did the first year was turn the seat over. It was only a little less comfortable and it gave him a little bit more room to get his feet under to kneel. The second year since I knew what he does we went to the hardware store and bought some nylon spacers and longer bolts and raised the seat to new heights. Since we were loaded with tripping weight it never felt tippy. Northstar mounts its seats on aluminum angles attached to the hull.
Just thought I’d share for folks that don’t have gunnel mounted seats.
Jim

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

The seats were now 11 inches and they were a lot more comfortable, but not quite as nice as the higher seats in my w/c boats.

Okay, but you're primarily a sitter as recall, aren't you, Al? Kneelers are more comfortable kneeling. Most kneelers couldn't reach the floor comfortably on an 11" high seat plus some foam on top, unless they had extremely long legs. Native paddlers comfortably kneeled with butt on thighs.

In addition with the seat at 9 inches I couldn’t finish my stroke properly without getting my hand wet. It caused me to bend and lift my arm at the end of the stroke, not good.

That makes sense because, again as I recall, you use long, straight shaft paddles—60" or more. In my tripping canoes I paddle from a centralized seat, kneeling, with a 48.5" bent shaft paddle. I couldn't comfortably paddle with a 60" paddle; I'd be punching up at the sky.

So, I think our preferences for seat height are affected by whether our primary posture is sitting or kneeling, whether we are paddling wider or narrower beam canoes, our preferred length of paddle, and our preferred paddling technique (single-sided, switching or standing).

 

[ppine]

Lower seat make for stability and a lower center of gravity. Higher seats make bracing easier and the same with dramatic moves.
My favorite canoe all-time was a Sawyer Charger with the seats lowered about 4 inches from the factory height.

I also paddled an Old Town Guide 18 for 30 years with the standard drop bow seat and the stern seat up near the gunwales. I could see better from the higher seat. I nearly always paddled that canoe with a load and never noticed any problems with it being top heavy.

 

[FloridaJohn]

I, too, like a raised seat. I paddled my new-to-me NW Solo with the factory 4 inch drops, but found it too low and uncomfortable to me.

I am in the process of installing the kneeling drops instead, which is a 2 inch drop in the front and 1 inch drop in the back. If that still doesn't work I'll move the seat all the way up to the gunwales. I hope it does, though, as I like to have as wide a range of positions available as possible, so that I can be comfortable for all day paddles.

I think a lot of where people like the seat is dependant on your size and your paddling style.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have always tried to hang my seats low.
To me if they were too low ? All I needed, was to add a seat cushion. A Simple solution, to raise the seat..
If however, my seats were too high ? It required a lot more work to lower.

Having said that, stability, is my first concern. Comfort, a close second.

A tandem hull, with higher seats, would certainly, if stable ? Be a more comfortable choice.

 

[Cruiser]

I am with Jim on this, I do mine low ... but I am a sitter, the knees don't like kneeling

 

[yknpdlr]

I like my seats high for single blade canoe paddling (highly dislike using a kayak paddle in a canoe). When I bought my PB Rapidfire a decade ago, I asked Joe Moore to take out the stacked seats back as even the highest stack was not high enough for my liking. I noticed that in Joe's own personal RF, he had a high rail mounted seat, so I asked him to take out the glued in base seat and install one like his. He did as I asked and I have always liked it very much, especially with the addition of a thick gel pad to get me even higher.

Then I asked him to make a new Shadow for me with a higher than standard high seat. He did not want to because he has done that three other times by request and each of the owners brought their Shadow back to have the high seat removed and lowered due to lack of stability. Joe found another rail mounted seat, and I asked him if he could mount it high on an elevated block. And so he did.

The canoe is tippy, I will admit, especially when I am still and not moving in the water. But when moving right along under paddle power, it performs very well going straight fast, or in sharp turns, and I have no trouble with stability. While waiting the year for my Shadow to arrive, i asked Bill Swift at a demo day how long to get me a custom Cruiser with a higher than standard seat. 30 days later he personally delivered my new high seat Cruiser to me at my home as the first on his delivery circuit to the states.

The Cruiser is much more stable than the Shadow, wider at the base, at the expense of some loss in speed, but both have handled all of my tripping gear on recenet trips. Next, I am looking at possibly ordering a SR Blackwater, which is the third new solo on my list that I was able to demo this past spring. I think the BW may be the best performer of all.

 

[lowangle al]

Okay, but you're primarily a sitter as recall, aren't you, Al? Kneelers are more comfortable kneeling. Most kneelers couldn't reach the floor comfortably on an 11" high seat plus some foam on top, unless they had extremely long legs. Native paddlers comfortably kneeled with butt on thighs.



That makes sense because, again as I recall, you use long, straight shaft paddles—60" or more. In my tripping canoes I paddle from a centralized seat, kneeling, with a 48.5" bent shaft paddle. I couldn't comfortably paddle with a 60" paddle; I'd be punching up at the sky.

So, I think our preferences for seat height are affected by whether our primary posture is sitting or kneeling, whether we are paddling wider or narrower beam canoes, our preferred length of paddle, and our preferred paddling technique (single-sided, switching or standing).

Yes, I’m primarily a sitter, but when I first started paddling from the stern seat solo I was a kneeler for the first couple months. I used a three inch thick pad to kneel on to make it more comfortable. Since becoming a sitter I’ve gotten rid of the kneeling pad and just kneel. When I need to get off my seat I can kneel with my butt on my calves (I assume that’s what you meant because if I had to kneel butt to thigh I would be sitting on someone’s lap). To make it more comfortable I’d lean my back (about belt level)against the seat or
thwart to relieve some pressure on my knees. I find this very bearable especially since I don’t usually have to kneel for long periods, just long enough to get through a rough patch.

As far as my hand getting wet on the low seat I don’t think paddle length has a lot to do with it. I still keep my elbows at 90 degrees or less so I could get by with a shorter shaft but I like the extra leverage of a longer paddle. My hands do go a little higher with a longer paddle but I have modified my paddle recovery by keeping the paddle almost horizontal with the blade tip almost touching the water. I Don’t put power to my stroke until the blade and enough of the shaft is submerged to a comfortable height ,making it similar to a shorter paddle.

I guess a lot of it has to do with preferences and the boat we use. I’m recommending this to those paddling tandem tripping canoes like Prospectors etc. My Seliga for example is supposedly designed with the same lines as the original w/c version, yet the seats were much lower. I’ve been much happier since I raised them and I think others would be too. I’d recommend this to season paddlers that can evaluate how their stability changes before they make them permanent. I recommend it for tandem paddlers as well as solo paddlers paddling backwards from the bow seat or otherwise.

It may also benefit those who kneel. Sitting in such low seats isn’t all that comfortable. A higher seat might elliminate the back pain they cause by letting you comfortably put your feet under the seat.

 

[Bailan]

It’s great to see that you’ve found a comfortable setup for your canoe seats! Everything looks so clean. Good job.