My first Build

[ThreeScoutDad]

OK, i have decided to start my first build over the coming winter. I have read Canoe craft at least twice and followed the numerous builds here over the last few years. Thanks to Jim and Bens recent build, me and my boys will be tackling the Wee Lassie 2. This provides our clan with an additional canoe for family outings, lets us play with a small solo, and should be good on the small rivers and creeks in the area. My oldest son also wnat to build one for 4-H, so this hopefully will be a good pratice to start finding out what works best for us.

So, now for a few questions:

1- What is the best, yet reasonable bead and cove bit?
2- Where is the most ecominical place to get sanding disk?
3- Best web site for cloth and epoxy

Looking forward to getting started in the next few weeks.

Bryan

 

[Jim Dodd]

The Wee Lasse II is an excellent choice, Bryan ! Mac Mc Carthy, used the same forms as the Arkansas Traveler, for The Wee Lasse II.
If you make the WL II 14', you will be more than pleased !

​ Question 1- If they are carbide, they will be fine. My first set of B&C bits were cheap carbide Chinese. They are still sharp, and have cut strips for 20+ canoes and kayaks. Shop one line .
​ Question2- Again shop online. Personally 40 grit, 80 grit, and 120grit will cover sanding on the hull and fiberglass. For varnish 320-400 grit works for me. I don't sand between coats, if I can avoid it.
​ Question 3- RAKA has served me well over the years, and I'll stick with them, until I find something better, in price and quality.

​ A thought on the Wee Lasse II, you might consider 3/16" strips. The plus, lighter weight hull, and easier to work over the sharp turns in the bilge. The minus, weight of course, and less margin of error when sanding. Be sure to CENTER your B&C bits on the strips.

​ I'd go with 3/16" strips .

​ Post some pics as you go ! Love pics !

​Jim

​

 

[BWCA66]

I found reasonable bead and cove bits at grizzly.com

 

[Alan Gage]

Congrats on jumping into a build. Look forward to seeing the progress and hope your son catches the fever too.

I don't remember where I got my B&C bits but I don't ever recall seeing any expensive ones. Many places call them canoe bits.

Industrial abrasives is where I get my sanding discs. Great price and very good quality. I was using Mirka discs before. The Industrial Abrasives discs are cheaper and better quality IMO.

I use Express Composites when I can as they're semi-local (Minneapolis) but you can't go wrong with Raka.

Alan

 

[dogbrain]

Oh good, another canoe build.

I bought these b&c bits last year on Amazon and they worked great:

http://a.co/9kaFQJn

I used Raka epoxy and fiberglass. You can get everything you need from them, and at a good price.

Mark

 

[Muskrat]

One place that is often over looked is Aircraft Spruce. They cater mostly to small aircraft, but a lot of the supplies are the same. I've got good deals on S-glass in the past. Northwest Canoe is good for outfitting and I really like the pro build slow set epoxy they sell. It gives a lot of working time. I've ordered from Raka and Jamestown distributors too.

 

[Mihun09]

Lee Valley sells the router bits as well, have had mine for 6 years now.

 

[stripperguy]

Congrats on your decision to plunge in and start a canoe build!! Especially including the kids, you'll build so much more than just a boat...

You didn't say if you need router or shaper tools; I found the best variety and prices for shaper cutters here:

http://corobcutters.com/

For abrasives, I have used these guys:

https://www.industrialabrasives.com/

And for resin and cloth, as others have already mentioned, RAKA. I have been buying from them for over 15 years, good prices, good quality product, good service.

Also a recommendation on the bead and cove.
Be sure that the radius of your tools is more than 1/2 of the thickness of your strips to avoid those feather edged strips that will invariably splinter and require more sanding. And as Jim says, be sure that your radii are precisely centered on the strips, or at least matched from one surface.

If you're not familiar with laminating fiberglass with epoxy resin, practice on a sample panel before committing to your freshly sanded hull. A little experience goes a long way to make the glassing go smoothly (pun intended) and stress free.

And most importantly, enjoy the build and your time with the kids, those moments are fleeting at best. I look back on some of the projects with my now grown kids and know those were some of the best times we ever had together!

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Hope to build the strong back this next week, and pick up some cedar.

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

If you make the WL II 14', you will be more than pleased

At Jim:

My plans have the WL II at 13' 6", why do you recommend stretching to to 14'? Better tracking?

Regarding 3/16" strips, would you still use 4oz cloth as Mac recommends in his book, or go with 6oz?

Did you use an internal stem, or stemless? My plans are for a stem, which i am still mixed on. If i want to go stemless, i should just add the difference to the front mold?

In your traveler thread, you commented the strips were tough to bend at the transition between the sides and bottom. Other readings i have done talk about running level and infilling to the shear, or starting with the shear, then going level creating a "birds mouth and backing filling. Is there any strength difference in these methods, or just personal preference?

I actually bought three sets of Plans, WL, WL II, and the Big Mac. Has anyone here built or paddled the WL II and Big Mac? What might the difference be?

Thanks again in advance.

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Look forward to seeing the progress and hope your son catches the fever too.

Well, with three boys under the age of 14, which all like to build things, and another on the way, I hope they do to. One fear, is most stuff will need to be completed in 4's, as one is always jealous ;-)

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Be sure that the radius of your tools is more than 1/2 of the thickness of your strips to avoid those feather edged strips that will invariably splinter and require more sanding.

so for 3/16" strips use a 1/8" radi and for 1/4" use a 3/16", or is that to much a difference?

Also, any thoughts on a combo bit vs. two separate bits?

 

[stripperguy]

so for 3/16" strips use a 1/8" radi and for 1/4" use a 3/16", or is that to much a difference?

Also, any thoughts on a combo bit vs. two separate bits?

Sure,
You want enough radius to lock the strips together, but not so much that you end up with excessively thin, feather edges.
Combo bits? I do not know of these "combo bits". Any set of tools that does the job is fine. Still don't know if you're using a router or a shaper.
Stemless is a great way to go. I have never built a Wee Lassie II (don't care for the paddling position) but have helped strip many of that hull. Cheater strips will help, if you strip parallel to the waterline, there will be some big twists near the stems.

Also be sure that all your strips end up the same functional width after cutting the beads and coves if you need to splice strips. If you have full length strips, that would be less of a concern.

 

[Alan Gage]

I've never used a combo bit but I don't like the idea of having a 2nd cutter spinning around that's above the wood. Working with power tools is already risky enough for our fingers and I don't see any reason to give the tools more of an advantage. Saving a few $ isn't worth it to me.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

At Jim:

My plans have the WL II at 13' 6", why do you recommend stretching to to 14'? Better tracking?

Regarding 3/16" strips, would you still use 4oz cloth as Mac recommends in his book, or go with 6oz?

Did you use an internal stem, or stemless? My plans are for a stem, which i am still mixed on. If i want to go stemless, i should just add the difference to the front mold?

In your traveler thread, you commented the strips were tough to bend at the transition between the sides and bottom. Other readings i have done talk about running level and infilling to the shear, or starting with the shear, then going level creating a "birds mouth and backing filling. Is there any strength difference in these methods, or just personal preference?

I actually bought three sets of Plans, WL, WL II, and the Big Mac. Has anyone here built or paddled the WL II and Big Mac? What might the difference be?

Thanks again in advance.

​ I would stay with your plans, for form spacing. I stretched Ben's to 14', because of his size.

​ Cloth ? I used 6 oz., because it's what I had, and it was the same price as 4 oz. Be sure to buy enough to double layer the outside bottom, up to about the 4" waterline. If weight is an issue, go with the 4 oz. If you want durability, go 6 oz.

​ Definitely go stemless. Stems, to some look cool. Not to me, and are no stronger ! The extra work, just doesn't make sense to me . The stem form pattern can easily be modified, for stemless.

​ I follow the shearline with my first strips. No need to stair step strip. If the hull has a lot of upturn at the shear, then I would stair step strip the ends. neither the WL or the WLII do.

​ If you cut your strips 3/16" thick, You shouldn't have any trouble, bending them around the bilge. Just start at the shear with a full length strip, and keep going. I helped a friend build his first WL II this last Summer. He built his, the same as mine, except he went stapleless, and it turned out great, AWESOME in fact !

I'm not familiar with the Big Mac, I'll have to check into it.

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

I believe the 1/8" radius bit is what is commonly called the 1/4" bit. I use this bit for both 3/16" and 1/4" thick strips.Catalogs can make it confusing.
Stick with the two bit set. As Alan says. The combo, can cause trouble.

​ Stripperguy bought up a good point !
Uniformity of you strips is a big help ! When routing my strips, I run them BETWEEN the fence and the bit. I don't have a planer, and you don't need one. My planks often vary in thickness. Running your strips BETWEEN the fence and the bit, takes care of this.

Looking forward to your build, as others are !

You've got a great start ! I wish I had this much help on my first build !

​Jim

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Progress has been made. The strong back is almost complete, just need to clear out a bot more room to finish setting it up. The pattern has been transferred to poster board, next is to transfer it to the plywood.

On the stems, the pattern is for an inter stem, I want to go stemless. Therefore, do I add the difference, thickness of what would be the stem, to the stem mold? or just use the square edge to guide the strips?

Bryan

 

[dogbrain]

Bryan - Here are some plans I have that show the option for stem and stemless. It's a little different than what you're saying. I'm not able to articulate the difference but hopefully this picture tells the story.

Mark

 

[Jim Dodd]

If your plans call for an inner stem. Cut your forms to the same shape as the form, plus the inner stem. Taper the form as though it has the inner stem attached.

You can do this, and if it is off, by checking with a fairing strip, you can adjust, before you start stripping. I'll put up some pics tomorrow, I hope will help visualize.

Jim

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Thanks, that make since, and confirms what I was thinking.