First Canoe

[WoodsNWaters]

Really. I've paddled many canoes but never owned one.

Chesapeake Light Craft makes cedar-strip kits for several canoe and kayak designs by Nick Schade. CLC is known for plywood boat kits: kayaks, rowing craft, sailing, other.

This kit is the "Mystic River Tandem".

Length	17' 2"
WL length	17'
Beam	34"
WL beam	33"
Weight	42 Lbs
Max payload	450 Lbs
Draft	4.5"
Surface area	60 sq ft
Wetted area	31.7 sq ft

Not a lot of rocker; about 2.25" difference between center and the last form.

Weight was one big reason for choosing this design. Many designs and kits for 16' and longer canoes are heavier by 10 or 15 pounds. This kit uses 1/4" strips and 6-oz cloth so the weight savings aren't ultralight materials.

I opted for the "complete" kit. CNC-cut forms, CNC-cut strongback, strips, glass, epoxy, decks, seats and a piece of ash for a yoke.

I see zero mentions of this design on canoetripping.net. Zero mentions of cedar-strip kits from CLC. Of course CLC could look around and see zero mentions of me or my abilities so we could be even.




To the basement!

Dave

 

[Sedges]

An interesting hull. It has a shallow-vee bottom, much like a Mad River Malecite. I think it has more rocker than a Malecite and I like that. The shallow-vee will give a little twitchy feel that you will get used to in the first few minutes of paddling. It gives it excellent secondary stability. It will track well, too.

I would be absolutely amazed if you end up with a 42# boat. Maybe 52# would be more realistic. I can't believe that CLC advertises that at 42#. I think it is misleading.

 

[WoodsNWaters]

Thanks, @Sedges , for those details. Since ordering the kit on July 2, I've been wondering if this design is the right choice. Your comments on the design are reassuring.

Your comment about weight seems reasonable but less reassuring. My weight goal has been 44#. That's 2/3 the weight of my only current boat, a 17' ocean k*y*k. Fifty-two would be a disappointment but still better than 66#.

Dave

 

[Cruiser]

You won't regret building your own canoe, it is a vastly illuminating, terrifying, exhilarating and satisfying endeavor ... try to enjoy every step.

Building lighter has sort of become "my thing" in the last few builds. IMO a lighter boat is not one decision, it is every decision you make, at every step. Obviously, going with a kit means a lot of those decisions have been made for you already, but not all of them, there are still some ways to try and build lighter IMO.

Things to consider:
- check your epoxy instructions carefully, understand how it can be used, if you can use a precoat (seal coat) and maintain a chemical bond, you will save a nice chunk of weight.
- look at the gunnel sizing, if it is standard 3/4" x 3/4" ash (or similar) you can reasonably halve that to 3/8" x 3/8" and save quite a few pounds
- check the deck weights, they don't need to weigh over a few ounces each, it is a small project to redo them and save weight
- laminate that "chunk of ash" and minimize the yoke design, it needs to work, but anytime you use hardwood, it is easy to pack on weight
- unless you do a lot of scraping on the inside, you can forego the flood coats and save a pound or two on the inside
- you can also safely trim ~3/4" from the sheer, gives a better finish to the edge and saves a pound or so as well

Each of these areas are still available to you for weight considerations and you may be surprised by how much weight you can save doing them.

IMO, you should be able to make 42#s by not adding unnecessary weight during the build, however, if you just follow the directions, I suspect 55+ would be the likely result.

Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

WoodsNWaters

A great kit. to start with. A Big Plus, is the strips are Bead and Coved. Makes assembly a lot easier.
Will you build in the Basement ? Dust will be your biggest enemy.

Does the kit include stems ?

As others have said 42# is light.

I'm repairing a tandem stripper right now. Two big cracks down the middle.
Had the original builder, double layered the bottom ? I doubt I'd be fixing it !
Yes, extra weight. but worth the durability in my view.

Keep us posted on your progress, and don't be afraid to ask questions !

Jim

 

[Gamma1214]

I'm always glad to see another builder online and I doubt that you'll regret the endeavor regardless of the final weight.

Keep us updated on progress; I'm looking forward to following along.

 

[WoodsNWaters]

Thanks, @Cruiser. I will be referring to your "Solo on the light side" posts to review ways to reduce weight and maintain strength. There are a lot of talented builders here and I'll read many threads. That one is just too impressive.

Solo on the Light Side

Solo on the Light Side Over the past couple of months, I noticed something about the canoe lookingfor/purchase/release threads that I never noticed before. There is a repeating theme of wanting to tweak and change some things, wishing for others in various boats, as they get discussed. It...

www.canoetripping.net

I will replace several pieces of wood supplied by CLC. I won't post details until I hear back from them. The cedar looks good so the project will continue. I should have no trouble making replacements for the parts I don't like. Each of these is an opportunity to shave weight and have a higher-quality canoe.

Dave

 

[WoodsNWaters]

@Jim Dodd -- I believe you when you say that dust will be my enemy. I plan to divide the basement with plastic so the canoe is in it's own room. Even canoe parts will be outside the canoe room. The divider will go up before sanding and needs to stay up to help keep the boat warmer during fiberglassing. There will be dust, but it won't be on, in, and under everything. Just on in and under the canoe which is more manageable.

The kit does include stems, 16 strips of 2" by 3/32" spruce to laminate all 4 stems at one time. I don't like the idea of common spruce for the outer stems. Then again I'm considering a layer of Dynel so maybe softwood is OK. Or no outer stem. The whole question of stems is up in the air.

Double layers? I'll have to track my weights. My budget should allow swapping out the E-glass for S-glass and double layers on the bottom. But is that worth it for a first canoe build?

A boat that's difficult to use just doesn't get used. It has to be light enough to be convenient or it'll last a long time and never be in water. Durability is important too. Trade-offs.

Thank you for your interest, and I willl ask questions.

Dave

 

[WoodsNWaters]

@Gamma1214 -- Thanks.

I'm glad to find a forum with talented and creative canoe builders. And paddlers.

Dave

 

[WoodsNWaters]

The whole kit and canoedle:



From the top:

• CNC-cut side pieces for the strongback. Twelve millimeters or 0.475". Five plies of softwood plus two thin plies of . . . birch?
• Alaska yellow cedar strips bundle 1, cove & bead, 1/4" thick by 11/16" effective height.
• Western red cedar strips, 4 bundles. Most strips are 96" (8') long. Some of the Alaska yellow cedar is shorter.
• On top of red cedar to the left is a piece of sapele for a thwart.
• On red cedar to right is the roll of 50" wide 6 oz glass.
• Alaska yellow cedar strips, bundle 2: short pieces for football.
• Cherry gunwales, 3/4" square, with scarfs pre-cut. The scuppers have not been cut.
• Alaska yellow cedar strips, bundles 3 and 4.
• CNC-cut top and bottom pieces for the strongback.
• On floor are 1.5 gallons of MAS low-viscosity resin, 1 gallon of MAS slow, clear, non-blushing hardener, plus wood flour and cellulose.
• To the left inside the box are coamings, seat bolts and spacers, etc.
• Below to the right are a stem mold on top then CNC-cut molds below. The molds are "hollow" with reference line grooves for center and waterline. Some sort of fine-grained fiberboard 0.485" thick.
• Two seats, caned but somewhat rough.

Farther down in the (compostable starch) peanuts are:

• A bundle of 16 spruce strips, 2" wide by 3/32" thick for laminating inner and outer stems.
• The forms for the curved decks with reference line grooves for center and edges.

Also not shown are the 81-page instruction book by CLC and the 3 pages of plans, 24" by 36".

Such a lot of posts and I haven't DONE anything yet. I'll correct that soon.

Dave

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have yet to build a canoe with stems.

To me ? A lot of extra work, for no real benefit.

I started building Stemless, as the Minnesota builders that I learned from, also built Stemless.

As far as strength ? Over the years I have had three canoes come off my truck racks. One was crushed, by an on coming SUV.
Both stems survived. Neither of the other two, were severely damaged, other than some road rash, and the ends of the gunnels tore up. Easily repaired.
My point is. Stemless builds are by no means fragile !

I noticed in your pic, the two canoe seats. If you have the time ? Build your own. They will be so much better, and more comfortable.

As far as a single layered bottom ? I've seen the weakness in the single layer too often. In my early experience, and in the experience of others.

A Stitch in time ? Saves 9. Soo true in this case.

I'll throw one more bit of advise.
You will be splicing a lot of strips.
Stagger your splices, and put them between the forms.
Butt joints are the best and also the easiest.
Use 2" spring clamps, and two short scraps of wood ( Strip cut offs are fine). Wrap them in packing tape, so they won't stick to the strips on your hull.
I 'm looking for a pic tom share, no luck right now,
I'll share on later.

Sorry for the long post !
Good luck !

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

The beauty of this splice ? You just keep on stripping. No need to wait for glue to dry.

 

[Fourbtgait]

Possibly go stemless, use 4 oz cloth instead of 6?

 

[WoodsNWaters]

Thanks Jim,

STEM curriculum

To get from here (forms for stemmed construction) to there (stemless construction) I can either design and cut new forms or slap some stems in there as part of the form, not part of the canoe.



I've laminated enough thin strips here and there that I don't see filling in this form as any big deal. But it is time to order those 2 or 3 rasps on my list to shape the bevels.

It looks like the Gil Gilpatrick book, Building a strip canoe, is all stemless construction.

Reserved seating

Other threads have featured seats that are concave side-to-side, convex front-to-back, and WIDE. I do expect the wider seat to be helpful for leaning the canoe. IDK whose threads but I may copy the idea. Straps or cord, not caned.

The splice of life

Your pic looks like a bead-and-cove splice. I'm probably just going with a butt splice on a slight angle, maybe 70 or 80 degrees instead of 90. Just need to make a simple miter jig. I read it hides the butt joint slightly compared to 90 degrees.

Clamp it

While I do have many Jorgensen "Pony" metal spring clamps, plus some Irwin copies, I've recently found that the swivel pad on a plastic Irwin version is useful. In the case of clamping butt joints, it should eliminate the need for separate pads.

Dave

 

[Cruiser]

Dave, this is a first build, don't make it complicated by trying to overthink the whole process. There is a tendency , on the first build, to try and distinguish the build, instead of just enjoying the process and learning. Changing the build to stemless, subbing glasses are IMO just complications, that quite frankly you likely don't really need.

Something to remember is when suggestions are made here, they are usually based on that builders local experience. If that's rocky rivers/streams then adding layers is not a bad idea, if you are doing lakes not so much ... understand where and how you will be using the boat, then make any decisions based on the intended usage.

The standard 6 oz E glass is more than substantial enough for almost any routine builds and likely is overbuilt for most paddlers (not necessarily all).

Clamps are a bit personal, I moved from plastic to steel spring clamps, I found the plates get bogged with glue and the plastic just doesn't hold up as well, plus with the advent of the "Jimmy" addon for stripping, well, spring clamps are more useful for me.

Also, the previous build was aimed more or less at the first time builder, if you didn't see it, might be an idea or two there for you

Light Weight Solo Tripper Build

This will be a somewhat ambitious build ( at least for me), the design will be a 15' solo cedar strip with a max weight of 30 pounds and still be tripping tough. I also want to take a hand in the design portion and I don't intend to resort to one of the standard CAD programs as they are just a...

www.canoetripping.net

Brian

 

[Jim Dodd]

While we share a lot here, and we all have our own opinions.
It's good to collect as much info as possible, and then you have to make your own choices. We all respect that !
So here is one of my build threads, that show cases, most of my methods.

Pearl

Jim

 

[Gamma1214]

My budget should allow swapping out the E-glass for S-glass and double layers on the bottom. But is that worth it for a first canoe build?

I think that depends upon how your canoe will be used. If you wet-foot on lakes and you're careful, e-glass is perfect. If you are planning wilderness trips that subject the canoe to scraping over rocks, dragging over beaver dams (and, perhaps, even portages), the s-glass should provide a little more strength and abrasion resistance.

note: US composites sells 4 oz s-glass in 27 & 30 inch widths if you want to do the "football" (put your money & your extra weight where it counts IMO)