A New Seat for the Canoe

[Neophyte]

When I got my Trillium I ordered it with a pack seat. I was coming from kayaking and it seemed like a good idea at the time. And perhaps it was. But I never really loved it with a pack seat, so over this past winter I got a standard seat put in with seated drops. I’ve been waiting very impatiently for the weather to cooperate so I could get it on the water, and last Sunday was finally the day.

Here’s my set up and all my paddles. I got a little overly-enthusiastic with acquiring single-blade paddles, so I had a lot of new toys to try out.


Thoughts and observations in no particular order. In a bulleted list. It’s a personality trait.

• This was only the second time paddled in a canoe with seated drops. The first time was when I tested out a Magic, and the experience was very similar. I spent the first 30 seconds questions every decision I made in my life to get me to this point. After about a minute I settled in, and after a few hundred yards paddling I was loving it.
• I have a lot of work to do with my single blade technique. I was able to get into a rhythm occasionally, but consitency will take some time. I’ve learned from playing guitar that speed comes after getting your technique correct, so I’m trying to be patient.
• Speaking of patience, my wife and friend were way faster than me in their respective kayaks. Part of that was my technique and general lack of concern with getting left behind; after all, I could still see them and they waited for me. It does feel like the Trillium isn’t quite the canoe for keeping up in big open water. But I need more practice before I can say that definitively.
• The green dry bags are my ballast/extra weight. I’m 145 lbs, so I need some help keeping this thing stable with wind. I filled each with a little water and put one in front and one behind. When I was paddling back I was in a headwind (<10mph), so I moved the one behind me so both were in front. It seemed to work, but more experimentation is needed. Regardless the extra weight was definitely beneficial.
• Paddles and impressions.
  • Bending Branches Cruiser Plus 11 (50”). I grabbed this when I was up in the Adirondacks while I was testing out a Swift Cruiser 16. I’m definitely too small for the Cruiser, but he helped me size a bent shaft so I bought one. The Trillium probably isn’t the best canoe for switch, but it was fun.
  • Gray Owl Paddles Sagamore (Pretty sure I got the 62”). I believe it would be considered an ottertail, and this is the paddle I was the most excited about. I loved it.
  • Bending Branches Catalyst (54”) – Got this one so I would have a straight paddle and it was on sale. I got to use it when we paddled up a smaller creek. I perhaps should have gotten at 56”, but again...more testing needed.
  • I also have an Aquabound 250cm double blade paddle. It could perhaps be a little longer, but I'm going to focus on the other paddles for now so I'm not going to worry about.

And finally, the only picture I took while paddling. I’m not much of a photographer, I get distracted by paddling. That's my wife and friend waiting patiently for me. Or leaving me behind? Hard to tell.

 

[PortageW/Cerberus]

The Trillium is a very nice all-around boat but it's not quick. I have one with a drop seat and do sometimes swap out for a lower pack-style seat as well - however mine is probably 4" off the floor, much higher than Northstar's.

In terms of ballast: Boy howdy yes. These are tripping boats and are very different with some real weight. I'm always paddling with the dog, so ballasting the back to balance on day paddles. If I were you I'd play with it a bit - figure out how much water equals various weights and mark that on your bags...as you say, experiment. My guess is you like the boat a whole lot more with a total weight over 230ish, maybe even more; you are on the right track with trimming bow/stern based on wind.

All that said, I don't paddle the Trillium as much as I probably should. It is not my primary tripping boat anymore...but can't bring myself to part with it.

 

[tketcham]

You're a canoeist! Welcome to the cool crowd.

• have a lot of work to do with my single blade technique. I was able to get into a rhythm occasionally, but consitency will take some time. I’ve learned from playing guitar that speed comes after getting your technique correct, so I’m trying to be patient.
• Speaking of patience, my wife and friend were way faster than me in their respective kayaks. Part of that was my technique and general lack of concern with getting left behind; after all, I could still see them and they waited for me. It does feel like the Trillium isn’t quite the canoe for keeping up in big open water. But I need more practice before I can say that definitively.

"Practice makes perfect" is really more about "perfect practice makes perfect" so you're on the right track. I think that once you get comfortable (and efficient) using a bent shaft paddle you'll find it easier to keep up with recreational (as in non-racing) sea kayakers, even in that Trillium. Although not a cruiser, it's narrow enough to accommodate good hit-and-switch technique, which helps in maintaining speed.

As for the 54" vs 56" paddle length, I'm finding that a shorter paddle is easier on my shoulders and easier to do cross-forward maneuvers. But it depends on how tall you sit off the water. And consider that even though your Catalyst is relatively short at 54", the blade is only 19" tall so the shaft length is 35".

 

[stripperguy]

Congrats on coming to this side!!
I’m 5’9” and the same weight as you, I’ve been bent shaft paddling forever with a 48” paddle, much better for me with higher cadence.
Canoeing fast is a lot like cycling, higher cadence and lighter loading will be sustainable all day long, slower rates and heavier loads will eventually fatigue your muscles. For me, a longer paddle is slower to swing around, maybe for you too, you just don’t know it yet.
Anyway, have fun in your new toy.

 

[Neophyte]

The Trillium is a very nice all-around boat but it's not quick. I have one with a drop seat and do sometimes swap out for a lower pack-style seat as well - however mine is probably 4" off the floor, much higher than Northstar's.

In terms of ballast: Boy howdy yes. These are tripping boats and are very different with some real weight. I'm always paddling with the dog, so ballasting the back to balance on day paddles. If I were you I'd play with it a bit - figure out how much water equals various weights and mark that on your bags...as you say, experiment. My guess is you like the boat a whole lot more with a total weight over 230ish, maybe even more; you are on the right track with trimming bow/stern based on wind.

230 lbs! I'm gonna need a bigger ballast bag to get 80 lbs of water. I will definitely experiment more. I've found even 15-20 lbs makes a huge difference with the wind, I'm a sail without it. But you've encouraged me to try even more weight, thank you.

You're a canoeist! Welcome to the cool crowd.

"Practice makes perfect" is really more about "perfect practice makes perfect" so you're on the right track. I think that once you get comfortable (and efficient) using a bent shaft paddle you'll find it much easier to keep up with recreational kayakers, even in that Trillium. Although not a cruiser, it's narrow enough to accommodate good hit-and-switch technique, which helps in maintaining speed.

As for the 54" vs 56" paddle length, I'm finding that a shorter paddle is easier on my shoulders and easier to do cross-forward maneuvers. And consider that even though your Catalyst is relatively short at 54", the blade is only 19" tall so the shaft length is 33".

Thanks! I would not classify my paddling partners as recreational, they all have light touring kayaks that are quite fun to paddle. The blue Eddyline behind my canoe belongs to my wife, I guess I should have gotten her a slower kayak. I've got my work cut out for me for sure, but thank you for the encouragement. And we'll see how the Catalyst works out, I'm keen to try it on a river with some light rapids when the levels drops enough. I'll report back.

I read somewhere on these forums that I shouldn't stress too much about getting the right length first time around, because I'm going to be buying a lot more paddles anyways. That seems like it will be true.

Congrats on coming to this side!!
I’m 5’9” and the same weight as you, I’ve been bent shaft paddling forever with a 48” paddle, much better for me with higher cadence.
Canoeing fast is a lot like cycling, higher cadence and lighter loading will be sustainable all day long, slower rates and heavier loads will eventually fatigue your muscles. For me, a longer paddle is slower to swing around, maybe for you too, you just don’t know it yet.
Anyway, have fun in your new toy.

It occurs to me that I mentions my weight but not my height. I'm 6', so I have a few inches on you. Perhaps the 50" will be a good fit? I think once my switch gets better I'll be able to tell. Also, buying dress shirts when you're 6' and 145 lbs. is annoying.

 

[tketcham]

I would not classify my paddling partners as recreational, they all have light touring kayaks that are quite fun to paddle.

I shouldn't have used that term because of the association with a type of kayak. I meant it more as recreational (non-racing) sea kayaks. That Eddyline must move right along.

Also, I corrected my incorrect comment about paddle shaft length. (Doh!) And given that you're 3" taller than I, the 56" length might be about right. As you mention, time on the water will tell.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

230 lbs! I'm gonna need a bigger ballast bag to get 80 lbs of water. I will definitely experiment more. I've found even 15-20 lbs makes a huge difference with the wind, I'm a sail without it. But you've encouraged me to try even more weight, thank you.


Thanks! I would not classify my paddling partners as recreational, they all have light touring kayaks that are quite fun to paddle. The blue Eddyline behind my canoe belongs to my wife, I guess I should have gotten her a slower kayak. I've got my work cut out for me for sure, but thank you for the encouragement. And we'll see how the Catalyst works out, I'm keen to try it on a river with some light rapids when the levels drops enough. I'll report back.

I read somewhere on these forums that I shouldn't stress too much about getting the right length first time around, because I'm going to be buying a lot more paddles anyways. That seems like it will be true.


It occurs to me that I mentions my weight but not my height. I'm 6', so I have a few inches on you. Perhaps the 50" will be a good fit? I think once my switch gets better I'll be able to tell. Also, buying dress shirts when you're 6' and 145 lbs. is annoying.

At 5' 11", I mostly use a 48-50" bent shaft and a 54-56" straight - depending on which canoe I'm in and whether sitting or kneeling. But different torso and arm lengths are going to effect your sweet spot also. As already mentioned, you're likely to end up with an assortment of paddles. I have acquired a large collection from CL and Marketplace, modified a couple shaft lengths, and even made one from scratch (another in slow progress). It's a side effect of paddling.

 

[lowangle al]

230 lbs! I'm gonna need a bigger ballast bag to get 80 lbs of water. I will definitely experiment more. I've found even 15-20 lbs makes a huge difference with the wind, I'm a sail without it. But you've encouraged me to try even more weight, thank you.

It's good to experiment. I only use about 20-25 lbs in my big tandems and I paddle from the stern seat. I'm not shooting for a level trim though. I like to be bow light, sometimes I put the ballast midship when it's calm. When it's windy I'll put it far up in the bow. I found the extra weight gives me a little more stability and improves performance.