If you dump into cold water, you have some time.
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Cold Water Thermophysiology
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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And if you have fallen through the ice, and can’t get out, get your arms as far out onto the ice as possible and let them freeze to the ice. That way, when you do become unconscious, you keep your head above water, extending the time for possible rescue.
I saw this on a video where the instructor actually demonstrated this. I wish I had saved that video. I never found it again.
Erica,
Just do a google search for "Dr. Cold", "Professor Popsicle" aka Dr. Gordon Giesbrecht from Manitoba Canada. Also search the same on Youtube. You will find many videos from his cold survival education training program.
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Erica - I used to show that video in my winter camping class each year. It was a real eye opener to everyone and showed solid, real world techniques that they could relate to. I know the video is still out there and it looks like @yknpdlr has given you a starting point to find it.
That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.
snapper
That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.
snapper
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It's the most misleading coldwater safety summary I've ever seen.
Nobody is guaranteed one minute even in warm water. Some folks just go under quietly and never come up (ask me how I know). The gasp reflex is a real thing and increases the odds of not coming up. The smaller you are and the less body fat you have the less time you have even in an ideal scenario. Even the "don't panic" comment seems absurd...best case scenario you're not going to be calm when dropping into ice cold water then add the fact that the average American can't swim 100 yards in a pool...and we expect folks to remain calm because of a PowerPoint slide?
I didn't watch the movie but the summary looks flat out irresponsible to me.
Coldwatersafety.org is where I go for cold water safety information. They have a section on debunking myths including the 1-10-1 myth.
www.coldwatersafety.org
Nobody is guaranteed one minute even in warm water. Some folks just go under quietly and never come up (ask me how I know). The gasp reflex is a real thing and increases the odds of not coming up. The smaller you are and the less body fat you have the less time you have even in an ideal scenario. Even the "don't panic" comment seems absurd...best case scenario you're not going to be calm when dropping into ice cold water then add the fact that the average American can't swim 100 yards in a pool...and we expect folks to remain calm because of a PowerPoint slide?
I didn't watch the movie but the summary looks flat out irresponsible to me.
Coldwatersafety.org is where I go for cold water safety information. They have a section on debunking myths including the 1-10-1 myth.
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www.coldwatersafety.org
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I'm not terribly fond of getting soaked in tepid water so I'll go to great lengths to avoid a cold water dunking (zero chance that I'm ever among those 9 volunteers).
That said, if it happens, I'll certainly try my best to remain calm (the alternative is neither productive nor pretty) and the 1-10-1 idea might help in that respect.
Similar to the "rule of 3s" (you can last 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water and 3 hours without shelter), it's usually good to have your priorities in order prior to being exposed to the situation but remaining calm is primary IMO as panic is never helpful.
I'll have to read more on the coldwatersafety.org site... looks like an excellent resource.
That said, if it happens, I'll certainly try my best to remain calm (the alternative is neither productive nor pretty) and the 1-10-1 idea might help in that respect.
Similar to the "rule of 3s" (you can last 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water and 3 hours without shelter), it's usually good to have your priorities in order prior to being exposed to the situation but remaining calm is primary IMO as panic is never helpful.
I'll have to read more on the coldwatersafety.org site... looks like an excellent resource.
The average American who cannot swim 100 yards in a pool is not the most likely person to to find themselves in a situation where they are intentionally outdoors in winter wilderness conditions. As one myself who spends a great deal of time outdoors in all seasons, I believe that learning all I can from recognized experts in a field of safety (especially one who actively puts himself in the situation as his videos show) have something to to help me if I ever find myself in that situation. Therefore I have viewed and showed to my SAR team many of Dr Giesbrecht's teachings and philosophy with his cold survival videos. For example, if I recognize that If I am aware enough to fight the panic reflex, and what to best do next, then I may have a chance at survival. I do not pooh-pooh an entire field of study from viewing just "one Powerpoint slide". Doesn't seem to me like a good basis for extreme judgement of an entire field of study. I have not been to the cold water safety website. I think I will go there now to see if it may have any additional useful tips to help me survive beyond what I already know.
By the way I have taken the active in-situ survival and rescue courses and am certified by New York State Homeland Security and Emergency services in swift water/ flood water rescue, cold/Ice water rescue, and rescue motor boat operation.
By the way I have taken the active in-situ survival and rescue courses and am certified by New York State Homeland Security and Emergency services in swift water/ flood water rescue, cold/Ice water rescue, and rescue motor boat operation.
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I was taught in the military that in an emergency situation, your training will automatically kick in and you will do what needs to be done without having to think about what needs to be done. I go out to a lake and over turn my canoe to learn where the point of no return is, to test my pfd, and to test how to save myself in a cold water dunking. I have found that with my pfd, I go under water, then immediately my head rises above the water before I get the cold water gasp. After the cold water gasp, I either drain the water from my canoe, or I hold on to the gunnel and swim myself and the canoe back to shore. I also have found that even with the canoe completely filled with water, it will float with the gunnel just below the surface of the water.
Did you watch the video?
The entire premise of the 1 (min.)-10 (min.)-1 (hr.) Principle is to wear a life jacket. If you are (or if you can somehow climb onto a an overturned boat), the first module of the in-water training is how not to panic for the first one minute by learning how to control your breathing so you won't produce a gasp reflex. The Cold Water Boot Camp is a training school for cold water survival practice for students, in freezing cold water conditions, not a theoretical academic class. They actually take the students into various stages of hypothermia before pulling them out of the water.
If you can stay afloat in your PFD you will not go unconscious for about an hour, and you won't die even in ice cold water until you suffer a cardiac arrest in about 2+ hours after immersion (or about 1+ hours of unconsciousness floating in your PFD). Cold Water Boot Camp has been training people for cold water survival in Canada since 2007, and their first premise is to wear a PFD.
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There are useful pieces of information from both websites but it's up to each person to honestly assess how they'd react to cold water immersion and whether they would be able to rescue themselves. I know my ability to respond has declined considerably over the years; what was once an embarrassing dunk in frigid water would most likely be a race for survival now. That's why I don't paddle in ice cold water anymore. I suppose a dry suit would delay hypothermia but the initial shock and gasp reflex is still there, even with a PFD.
I still do some early/late season paddling, dependent on water temperature, but I keep very close to shore and don't go out in winds that I might paddle in the warmer months. Getting older has consequences that our younger memories have trouble understanding or accepting.
Glenn, have you read this section of the National Center for Cold Water Safety's website?
I still do some early/late season paddling, dependent on water temperature, but I keep very close to shore and don't go out in winds that I might paddle in the warmer months. Getting older has consequences that our younger memories have trouble understanding or accepting.
Glenn, have you read this section of the National Center for Cold Water Safety's website?
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I remember being broke and paddling whitewater in the 1970s in homemade wetsuits. We'd buy rolls of neoprene and glue up our own, including gloves and boots. Right after the ice broke up was some of the best paddling and it was common for our hair and beards to be solid icicles. I'm glad that I'm at a place in my life now where I can afford a dry suit.
Years ago I paddled a Class 2/3 whitewater section with a sleeveless wet suit and leaky paddling jacket when the water temp was mid-30s F and the air temp was below freezing. Everything had a coating of ice and I flipped twice. By the time we finished the run and got to the take-out I was shivering pretty good. I also paddled flatwater and Class 1 rivers in the winter but I don't do that anymore. I just don't handle the cold as well as I used to. A dry suit would certainly extend the season but I'd still think twice about paddling with water temps below 45F or so, even on flat water. Besides, there are plenty of other things to do that time of year. 
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