WTB: Family style canoe (OT Camper, Penobscot, etc?) in Royalex

[Anedae]

I'm looking to purchase my first canoe and I'm located in NE Texas - willing to drive up to about 4 hours one way to get the right canoe.

My needs:
I have 3 little kids - ages 2, 4, and 6. I'd like to get them out on the water with a fairly stable canoe and not have to worry too much about it tipping them out too often. Would love to be able to get my wife and all 3 kids in it if possible... Planning to attempt some canoe/camping trips also if possible.

I'm mainly looking at still water - I have lakes around me and some few rivers, but nothing fast or rocky. Probably won't get up to Beavers Bend or similar but once or twice a year.

My budget is kinda low (I can't afford $1000 right now, kids ya know?)

Open to anything that would fit the bill, but it looks like a nice Royalex Penobscot or Camper from Old Town would be good places to start - again, open to others

 

[Jmharrick]

I think a Mad River Explorer might also fit the bill. Royalex or Kevlar. From what I’ve seen the Kevlar tends to be a bit more expensive. You could definitely get the royalex model under $1000.

I’ve also had my wife and 3 kids in a Curtis Northstar many times without issue, but I doubt you find one of those close by. I bought mine just over $1000.

 

[MrPoling]

I'd add the Old Town Tripper to the list.

I don't see many good Royalex canoes on NE Texas Craigslist. They'll probably show up occasionally if you are patient. However, a $1000 is a fair price for a Royalex canoe in good condition (no damage, no serious work needed). Of course they often go cheaper.

Quality used fiberglass canoes are great for the budget-minded paddler. An old Sawyer, Mad River, Mohawk, etc. Fiberglass canoes are stiffer and will paddle better than an equivalent Royalex canoe.

I see plenty of aluminum canoes, and they might work well for your intended use. Aluminum is stiff, durable, and low maintenance. They are fine for mild to medium rivers. Most aluminum canoes are shaped for capacity and stability, so they make good general use family canoes.

Finally, I have three kids, and found that tripping with them wasn't really practical with only one canoe. I couldn't fit my modest tent, gear, and kids in the Explorer. It can certainly be done, especially if you have lighter gear and a big canoe like a 17 ft Grumman or OT Tripper. We settled for car camping at the lake and paddling during the day. Now mine are bigger and we don't have to pile in one canoe.

 

[Sliding Focus]

I agree that the Old Town Penobscot, Old Town Camper, Old Town Tripper, or Mad River Explorer all could make an excellent first canoe. Indeed, given your use case, just about any decent Royalex or composite tandem you find would probably be great! However, I also agree with @MrPoling that if you want to bring 3 kids canoe camping in one canoe, then a 16’ canoe is probably too short. Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of personal experience with models that are 17’ or longer, but besides the Old Town Tripper, the Old Town Penobscot 17 and Mad River Revelation would be worth adding to your list (as well as the 17’ Mad River Duck Hunter, which is the same hull as the Revelation in olive green).

 

[Robin]

An Old Town Camper is a great canoe for a fisherman/camper, and they were built with Oltanar Roylex which makes them lighter than most Roylex canoes.
There’s one in Austin on FB marketplace, seller doesn’t show bottom pics, and the wood trim might be a deal breaker for some, but for $500 with two decent paddles, it’s worth a look.

 

[Anedae]

An Old Town Camper is a great canoe for a fisherman/camper, and they were built with Oltanar Roylex which makes them lighter than most Roylex canoes.
There’s one in Austin on FB marketplace, seller doesn’t show bottom pics, and the wood trim might be a deal breaker for some, but for $500 with two decent paddles, it’s worth a look.

I've actually been talking with them some. They sent me pics of the bottom, and the wood trim is rotting in at least one spot. How hard is replacing the gunwales? Patching the small holes on the front doesn't seem like a big deal (someone recommended g-flex) but the wood is a little questionable?
More pics below

 

[Rippy]

I have had both a Camper and Penobscot 17' to haul the family around in. The camper felt much more stable of the two due to it's flat bottom. It would be great to test ride them for your self. That said, I would definitely recommend the Camper for a first family canoe. Dave

 

[Robin]

I've actually been talking with them some. They sent me pics of the bottom, and the wood trim is rotting in at least one spot. How hard is replacing the gunwales? Patching the small holes on the front doesn't seem like a big deal (someone recommended g-flex) but the wood is a little questionable?
More pics below

Patching the gunnels isn’t that hard, even replacing them isn’t difficult. You can do a quick patch and then replace the gunnels later if needed. The GFlex repair sounds correct.
For $500 that’s a perfect canoe for a family.

 

[Anedae]

Patching the gunnels isn’t that hard, even replacing them isn’t difficult. You can do a quick patch and then replace the gunnels later if needed. The GFlex repair sounds correct.
For $500 that’s a perfect canoe for a family.

What do you think of the damage to this tripper? Reddit seemed to think it was damaged beyond usefulness because of the creases on the side. The tripper is a bit cheaper, but I am concerned about how creased the inside and outside on this one is. The seller said it was just a scratch, but it doesn't really appear that way to me.

 

[MrPoling]

In my experience sourcing the gunnels is the tricky part, especially if you are on a budget. For example, Ed's canoes sells a knock down gunwale kit for $200 before shipping. Factor in your time, teak oil, and some hardware, then you're better up passing and looking for a boat that has aluminum or plastic gunwales.

If you have a local source for long ash boards, and you have the tools to rip and shape yourself it can make sense.

I've spliced gunwales before, like used in the video., It doubled the amount of time it took to prepare the gunwales.

There is a dirty cheap way to do this, but all the canoe snobs will look down on you. Usable gunnels can be ripped from treated deck boards. It works well because deck boards are long enough you don't have to splice. It isn't as strong as Ash, but you can store it outside.

 

[Sliding Focus]

What do you think of the damage to this tripper? Reddit seemed to think it was damaged beyond usefulness because of the creases on the side. The tripper is a bit cheaper, but I am concerned about how creased the inside and outside on this one is. The seller said it was just a scratch, but it doesn't really appear that way to me.

That Tripper doesn’t exactly look pretty, and the damage is definitely not just a scratch, but I’m not sure the canoe’s damaged beyond usefulness. I personally would wait for a canoe to pop up that hadn’t had the hull creased like that, but I’m a little pickier about looks than I probably should be. If the hull feels solid (you press on it around the damaged area and it doesn’t feel soft/doesn’t deform too easily) and the vinyl skin isn’t cracked so that water can get into the foam core layer, then I think it’s probably fine as long as the price is low enough…but maybe other folks will have a different opinion?

Then again, if the seller’s telling you that that huge crease is just a scratch, I’d start to wonder what else they might not be telling you.

One other obvious thing that’s wrong with that Tripper is that it’s missing a thwart: it should have one between the middle thwart and the rear seat, and if you look at the gunwale above the crease, you can see a screw hole where it would attach. That doesn’t need to be a dealbreaker—for carrying kids, you might want to replace that thwart with a seat anyway!—but the price should reflect that the part is missing and needs replacement.

One last thing that might turn me off that Tripper is the plastic seats—I am not a fan of them! They are a pretty comfy shape for sitting, but not so nice for kneeling or sitting backwards (for soloing), and they pool water so that your butt gets wet and stays wet (though it looks like that Tripper has drain holes in the seats, which should mitigate that last issue).

Edit: thinking on this more, the wonky gunwale on the side with the crease might be a worry too. If it’s just bent, then the canoe might paddle a little weird, but that could be an acceptable flaw if the price is low enough (it might hardly be noticeable!). But if the aluminum reinforcement inside the gunwale is cracked/broken, then the canoe will not have the structural integrity that it should, and I’d stay away from it at any price unless replacing or reinforcing the gunwale sounds like a fun project to you (and even then, IMO it would need to be very, very cheap—say, <$150). I’m not quite sure how you’d assess the gunwale’s integrity, so I’d be inclined to steer you away from that canoe.

 

[MrPoling]

Sliding focus is right about that Tripper. That is major damage, and I'd want it reinforced.

With three young kids I'd look for a boat that didn't have damage. I sometimes think about how many paddling days, or days otherwise playing with the kids, a project will take.

 

[Anedae]

Sliding focus is right about that Tripper. That is major damage, and I'd want it reinforced.

With three young kids I'd look for a boat that didn't have damage. I sometimes think about how many paddling days, or days otherwise playing with the kids, a project will take.

That's a good point for sure.

I'll pass on that one

 

[Anedae]

In my experience sourcing the gunnels is the tricky part, especially if you are on a budget. For example, Ed's canoes sells a knock down gunwale kit for $200 before shipping. Factor in your time, teak oil, and some hardware, then you're better up passing and looking for a boat that has aluminum or plastic gunwales.

If you have a local source for long ash boards, and you have the tools to rip and shape yourself it can make sense.

I've spliced gunwales before, like used in the video., It doubled the amount of time it took to prepare the gunwales.

There is a dirty cheap way to do this, but all the canoe snobs will look down on you. Usable gunnels can be ripped from treated deck boards. It works well because deck boards are long enough you don't have to splice. It isn't as strong as Ash, but you can store it outside.

I have a table saw and plenty of other tools - not sure I have the knowledge on HOW to do it but knowledge is easy enough to get with some time. My question is how to bend the wood to fit the canoe... I can rip a board just fine. Clamps? I've never been one to care much about what the snobs say - if it works, it works.

 

[clemency]

A Wenonah Spirit II would also fit your needs, and sometimes can be had with a third seat in the center. So keep your eye out for those as well.

 

[Anedae]

Sorry to keep adding more but I found a Blue Hole canoe that may be an option? Seller doesn't see a model or anything on it, so I'm guessing it's older - I heard Blue Holes were made of a thicker Royalex and are pretty durable. Supposed to be a 17ft model. Pictures here:

https://imgur.com/a/6UU1Ui0

 

[Robin]

I have a table saw and plenty of other tools - not sure I have the knowledge on HOW to do it but knowledge is easy enough to get with some time. My question is how to bend the wood to fit the canoe... I can rip a board just fine. Clamps? I've never been one to care much about what the snobs say - if it works, it works.

After giving it some thought, $500 for a Camper needing gunnels is too much up here in New England. But, if the wood isn’t punky and you can get away with a small repair, then any price around $500 seems right.
But here are some ideas on replacing gunnels that I have used.
Below is a picture of my steam bending method. I picked up a roll of vacuum seal food storage bags at Walmart. You can cut them to length, seal them with duct tape around the wood. The Camper won’t need much help bending at the ends. YouTube has some good videos on steam bending wood on boats.
As far as wood goes, ash is popular, but spruce works well also imo. You can find 16’ spruce lath at Lowe’s, if you pick thru it you can find suitable pieces that you can rip gunnels out of. PT deck wood works. Marketplace and Craigslist is a good source for cheap lumber. I have made a lot of gunnels using 10’ stock, Youtube shows you how to make a nice jig to rip long splices, Tightbond III is what I use to glue them.
You can install gunnels with 2 clamps, but 4 or more is better. I use Irwin Quick Grips, easy one handed operation and great for general use. My table saw is a $45 craigslist purchase with a new blade.
Here’s another of my videos that shows some more gunnel work,

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

In my opinion, if you are thinking about putting yourself, wife and three kids in a canoe, you will need a deep (14"-15') canoe that is at least 16' long. A 17' canoe would be better and could be an inch shallower. Some Old Town Campers are 15' long, some are 16' long.

If the canoe is long enough, you can install extra hung seats. Or, kids can just sit on the bottom of the canoe.

The Old Town Tripper you pictured was definitely pinned on its right side in swift current or whitewater. That caused the hull to buckle and crease, the right gunwale to flatten and lose some curvature, and perhaps broke the missing thwart. If the price is low enough, the crease is not necessarily a problem if it still seems strong in that area when you push and bang on that area. Royalex canoes are famous for popping back into shape. A thwart is easy to replace. Vinyl or aluminum gunwales are a lot more weather and abuse resistant than wooden gunwales. It's hard to give specific advice on used canoes without a full inspection.

A 17' Blue Hole OCA should also fit the family bill in terms of capacity and stability. Like any 17 foot Royalex canoe, it will be heavy, but that's why god invented young muscles. However, the one you've pictured has been even more beat up in whitewater than the Tripper. It's scratched a lot, it has skid plates on its stems, and its aluminum gunwales are badly warped from repeated smashes or pins on rocks.

 

[Anedae]

In my opinion, if you are thinking about putting yourself, wife and three kids in a canoe, you will need a deep (14"-15') canoe that is at least 16' long. A 17' canoe would be better and could be an inch shallower. Some Old Town Campers are 15' long, some are 16' long.

If the canoe is long enough, you can install extra hung seats. Or, kids can just sit on the bottom of the canoe.

The Old Town Tripper you pictured was definitely pinned on its right side in swift current or whitewater. That caused the hull to buckle and crease, the right gunwale to flatten and lose some curvature, and perhaps broke the missing thwart. If the price is low enough, the crease is not necessarily a problem if it still seems strong in that area when you push and bang on that area. Royalex canoes are famous for popping back into shape. A thwart is easy to replace. Vinyl or aluminum gunwales are a lot more weather and abuse resistant than wooden gunwales. It's hard to give specific advice on used canoes without a full inspection.

A 17' Blue Hole OCA should also fit the family bill in terms of capacity and stability. Like any 17 foot Royalex canoe, it will be heavy, but that's why god invented young muscles. However, the one you've pictured has been even more beat up in whitewater than the Tripper. It's scratched a lot, it has skid plates on its stems, and its aluminum gunwales are badly warped from repeated smashes or pins on rocks.

Thanks so much for the input! I didn't expect the Blue Hole to be in as rough a shape compared to the tripper hah. Shows how much I know! I'll learn though. I found a 21? ft XL tripper, but it's a bit out of my budget at the moment. Haha

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

A lot of Royalex (no longer made) canoes were used in whitewater because Royalex can flex and slide over river rocks and spring back to life after being wrapped/pinned, perhaps at the cost of some creases.

You are not going to be paddling whitewater, so you might want to search for canoes that have only been used on lakes, such as fiberglass or other composite canoes. They are much, much less likely to be damaged, although really old ones with wooden gunwales may have rot. There's also nothing wrong with looking for a 17' aluminum canoe that is in good shape. Many of us started in aluminum canoes, which are pretty inexpensive on the used market and almost invincible unless bashed in whitewater.

I say "started" because your kids will grow up faster than you can imagine, and then they will want and have more fun in their own solo boats. And so may you. No one canoe can do everything, much less for all time and for all waters.