Wabakimi info

[Art D]

I will have all of next summer free and have a wild dream of circumnavigating Wabakimi. This would be a solo trip. Is this even possible? Does anyone with Wabakimi experience have any idea how long this might take?

Like I said, it’s a wild dream and I haven’t yet started to plan this trip. Just looking for feedback.

Thanks.
Art

 

[Gamma1214]

I haven't been there yet but don't see any reason that it wouldn't be possible to spend a summer out there.

Friends of Wabakimi has maps, campsite and portage info and Paddleplanner has the same info (as in: literally the same info- I'm pretty sure most of the mapping was done by FOW regardless of who provides the maps). PP also allows you to save your route and download it.

PP also calculates travel time (in answer to your "how long will it take" question). You can change parameters such as paddling speed, single vs double portages, etc and it calculates daily travel. I'm taking that with a grain of salt as I expect portages in the lesser-traveled areas to be a bit more sketchy than, say, the BWCA.

What I've done is combine info from both FOW & PP to build my route maps for my trip this coming August. I mapped it out on Garmin's mapshare so that I'll have all of the details on the inReach and then transferred those maps to caltopo for printing in pdf format. (I prefer paper maps for navigation and the Garmin is intended to be back-up only).

I've watched quite a few YouTube videos while following along on the maps and have identified a few additional campsites and some portage info (including one portage that I will not attempt if it's raining as the footing would be poor and a fall would dump me into a deep ravine)

Another thing to consider is exit strategy in the event that you need an extraction. On the West side of the park, there's a First Nations guy named Jonah that runs shuttles and might be able to pick you up at a parking area if you can get there. He's a bit hard to reach, however.

On the East side, Clem Quenville does shuttles and can provide extraction from access points.

Within the park, extraction could be arranged through Don Elliot from Mattice Lake Outfitters. You'd just have to coordinate which lakes his plane could land on and get yourself there. Don also provides outfitting and is willing to provide as much or as little as you need. I've found him to be very helpful in my planning and highly recommend contacting him if you need outfitting for this area.

I'll have contact info for all 3 in my inReach when I push off from the launch.

If you've not yet done it, check with FOW (and consider joining). They have several people who can provide insight into various areas of the park depending on where you're planning to go.

And, finally, remember that Crown Land surrounding the park is about 1/3 the price per day of camping within the park (if that matters).

 

[Art D]

I haven't been there yet but don't see any reason that it wouldn't be possible to spend a summer out there.

Friends of Wabakimi has maps, campsite and portage info and Paddleplanner has the same info (as in: literally the same info- I'm pretty sure most of the mapping was done by FOW regardless of who provides the maps). PP also allows you to save your route and download it.

PP also calculates travel time (in answer to your "how long will it take" question). You can change parameters such as paddling speed, single vs double portages, etc and it calculates daily travel. I'm taking that with a grain of salt as I expect portages in the lesser-traveled areas to be a bit more sketchy than, say, the BWCA.

What I've done is combine info from both FOW & PP to build my route maps for my trip this coming August. I mapped it out on Garmin's mapshare so that I'll have all of the details on the inReach and then transferred those maps to caltopo for printing in pdf format. (I prefer paper maps for navigation and the Garmin is intended to be back-up only).

I've watched quite a few YouTube videos while following along on the maps and have identified a few additional campsites and some portage info (including one portage that I will not attempt if it's raining as the footing would be poor and a fall would dump me into a deep ravine)

Another thing to consider is exit strategy in the event that you need an extraction. On the West side of the park, there's a First Nations guy named Jonah that runs shuttles and might be able to pick you up at a parking area if you can get there. He's a bit hard to reach, however.

On the East side, Clem Quenville does shuttles and can provide extraction from access points.

Within the park, extraction could be arranged through Don Elliot from Mattice Lake Outfitters. You'd just have to coordinate which lakes his plane could land on and get yourself there. Don also provides outfitting and is willing to provide as much or as little as you need. I've found him to be very helpful in my planning and highly recommend contacting him if you need outfitting for this area.

I'll have contact info for all 3 in my inReach when I push off from the launch.

If you've not yet done it, check with FOW (and consider joining). They have several people who can provide insight into various areas of the park depending on where you're planning to go.

And, finally, remember that Crown Land surrounding the park is about 1/3 the price per day of camping within the park (if that matters).

Awesome info. Would you be able to share contact info for Clem, Don and the First Nation shuttle guy? Maybe message me if you don’t want to share publicly. Thanks so much.

 

[jdeerfoot]

As Gamma pointed out, it is highly recommended that you join FOW. The cost is minimal and their trip advisors can answer questions about areas they are familiar with.

The scope of your proposed trip is massive, the park itself is huge and the greater Wabakimi area is very huge. FOW, the successor to the Wabakimi Project, which covered most of the greater Wabakimi area in terms of mapping, campsite and portage locations, etc completed its 15 years of field work in 2018. The greater Wabakimi area is considered to be Hwy 599 on the west, the Albany Rv on the north, the Opichuan Rv on the east and the Kopka Rv on the south. And again as Gamma pointed out, traveling outside the park boundaries on Crown Land is less costly than travel within the park. Non-Canadians will need camping permits in both areas.

In terms of how long your proposed trip would take, in 2017 a buddy and I traveled from the railroad south on the Allanwater Rv to the Kopka Rv and on to Lake Nipigon taking 19 days with 2 of those being layover days at nice campsites. We were also mapping all campsites and portage locations as well as measuring each portage. So I would guess traveling solo it may take you 1-1/2 to 2 weeks to get from Redsand Lk (headwaters of the Kopka Rv) to Lake Nipigon, representing much of the southern boundary of the greater Wabakimi area. So I suppose you could do this trip but the distances involved and the lack of any maintenance on much of the area would likely really slow you down well as wear you out. It would definitely be an epic trip.

The shuttle contact on the west side of the park on Hwy 599 is Jonah Belmore. Contact info for him as well as Clem Quenville, good guy for Armstrong ON area shuttles/info and for Don Elliot - Mattice Lake Outfitters, also of Armstrong is available on the Friends of Wabakimi website. Don has many decades of flying experience and in depth knowledge of the greater Wabakimi area.

 

[Gamma1214]

Outstanding that FOW publishes contact info for Jonah & Clem. I contacted both to be sure that it was OK to share publicly but, if FOW already lists it, that will suffice IMO. (Don, of course, is easily contacted through his website which I've already linked above.

I would think that Don would also be able to coordinate resupply if you wanted to stay out longer without packing all of the food from the start.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Jonah and Clem are happy that their contact info is shared. What we really appreciated in 2024 was Jonah securely storing our vehicles at his house during our trip. And he arranged for us to camp the night before our trip on the reserve.

 

[Black_Fly]

Get the planning map, learn the railroad rules. I’ve been planning for a couple years. There are trips you can do from Armstrong, but you might as well do Quetico IMO. If you want to see the rivers and other features that make it unique, gotta take the train. (Although heading north from caribou through Raymond back through cliff lake is a non train trip.

I’m looking into getting my dog on the train, but it’s not looking good. Only other option is do it truly solo. There are some trip reports on Wabakimi.com, some with technical information about hazards.

Good luck.

 

[PortageW/Cerberus]

I’m looking into getting my dog on the train, but it’s not looking good.

I've looked at this too - my suspicion is that if one showed up with a ticket, a canoe w/train fee paid, and had a dog...they would probably find a way to make it work for the short ride.

But the penalty for being wrong is high.

Would love to have a conversation with the Via Rail employee there in Armstrong to find out how flexible they might or might not be...

The relevant section from Via Rail's site: "Baggage cars are heated, but most are not air-conditioned, which means your pet may be exposed to high temperatures. From May 1st to September 30th, baggage cars will not be able to transport animals due to a lack of proper ventilation. VIA reserves the right to modify these dates based on weather conditions to ensure your pet's comfort. Please take this into serious consideration when planning your travel." [emphasis theirs not mine]

I'd like to think the underlined part allows discretion for them to take dogs in the summer. However my wife tells me I am often wrong about everything, so there's that.

 

[Black_Fly]

But there is no station in Armstrong, and getting clarification from a call center is wasted time. Like you say, too high a risk.

 

[Aslowhand]

There is a stop in Armstrong, but no railway company employees are present. The employees travel on the train. I think they have some discretion in the matter. However, I wouldn't rely on them simply allowing a dog to travel. And even if they did, the animal would have to travel in the luggage car in a carrier that you bring yourself.


The picture shows a party of canoetrippers waiting for the train.

 

[jdeerfoot]

While there is no station at the Armstrong stop, there is a motel-like building owned by the railroad. Armstrong is a stop where the train crews change out so there is always train crew members around. At times we have asked them questions, such how late the train is running, etc and they have gone online to check for us.

 

[billconner]

If returning by train from the Allanwater Bridge, how do you adjust for one itable delays? All I could figure was a two way satellite communicator and someone watching and communicating with you.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Bill, I understand that what you suggest is what some friends have done - contact their guardian angel at home via sat communicator who goes online to look up the pertinent information.

 

[billconner]

I also wondered if I could get a shower at the fishing camp very near Allanwater Bridge? I have in mind to travel from Toronto by rail.

 

[Keeled Over]

If returning by train from the Allanwater Bridge, how do you adjust for one itable delays? All I could figure was a two way satellite communicator and someone watching and communicating with you.

inReached all over for 2 weeks up there with no issues. Chick watched arrivals/departures, arranged shuttle drivers, tow trucks, hotels, rescue outfits, police activities, liquor stores................. helps to be retired.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Showers are probably available at Allanwater Bridge Resort operated by Johnny Jelinski. We stayed in one of his cabins for a few hours sleep after being dropped off by the train early am before departing on a Kopka Rv trip in 2017.

 

[Gamma1214]

Did the train schedule change since 2017? I've seen other reports of being dropped off in the middle of the night but the schedule says it leaves Armstrong around 9 am & arrives in Savant Lake (my nearest scheduled stop if I jump ship at Chivelston) around 2 hours later.

I know the rail schedule is variable but how often is it likely to be off by 12 hours?

 

[recped]

Yes it did, I forget the year (maybe 2020?) but they switched the Toronto departure time to mornings when it used to be evenings. When I took the train to Savant Lake I arrived there 3 hours late at about 2:30am.

Now it's people that are on the eastbound train that get dumped in the dark.

The only downside to the change is that a lot more of the trip is in the dark so you miss some nice scenery if you are coming from Toronto

FYI - The train frequently runs late. (not always so don't miss the scheduled time!)

 

[Gamma1214]

Thanks. Getting dropped in the dark wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me (I'd just sit tight close to the launch until dawn) but it's better that I'll be able to watch the scenery on the way to the drop point.

Incidentally, that change must really complicate pick-up if the plan is to flag down the Eastbound train... Seems wise to schedule the pick-up with VIA beforehand if that's possible.

I don't like having set timelines when tripping so I'd probably have to see if someone at home could run ground support for that.

Incidentally, while float plane and train are popular ways to get in, there are several parking areas where people can drive to in order to start loops and they don't have to include a lot of out & back.

I was recently looking at the Allanwater Bridge access and it looks relatively easy to access it from Smye Lake, take a couple of days to reach Allanwater and then loop back to the launch via the Palisade & Savant Rivers.

Lots of YouTube videos out there today to help with trip planning and @Jontario (Lost Lakes YouTube) did a large portion of that route not long ago.

You can also access the park from the East on the Ogoki River and @memaquay has maps (mem always has maps lol) for that. Upside of that route is that it's unlikely that you'll see people since this is not a common access.

Actually looks like somebody could park in Nakina, shuttle to the Ogoki River, paddle to Armstrong and return via the night train... I wonder how long that would take?

 

[Keeled Over]

Did the train schedule change since 2017? I've seen other reports of being dropped off in the middle of the night but the schedule says it leaves Armstrong around 9 am & arrives in Savant Lake (my nearest scheduled stop if I jump ship at Chivelston) around 2 hours later.

I know the rail schedule is variable but how often is it likely to be off by 12 hours?

Random thoughts -

We got on in Armstrong for a scheduled 9 am. Train rolled in at about 9:50. 1 hour 10 mins later we were dropped. It' s probably in this thread but the charge for the canoe was $100 - 18' max. Make sure the canoe is booked because they don't carry as many as they used to. I heard of one example where the people jumped on but the canoe couldn't make it. It can be off schedule by a bit. The way it was explained to me is that way up north the freight trains are the priority. When freight trains and passenger trains are using the same track the passenger train (in this case, us) have to wait on the siding for the freights to roll by unimpeded. Heading to the Missainabi we had 2 waits for the freight trains. One was quite long. Also, don't believe that wi-fi is always available - in spite of what is printed on the brochure. We had none, so my plan to download a bunch of music fell through. (I'm not a huge devotee of music in the back-country anyway). However, the folks that had booked long journey's were not too impressed. When loading the train I always had 2 people in the freight car accepting what I handed up - nobody helps you from the ground. When being dropped off 2 people handed me my gear and I had to keep moving. I jammed my wrist when they handed my canoe but since that was last no huge deal. I don't like carrying rod cases on trips so the first trip I took my unprotected rods on the train. They told me they were sensitive to potential rod breakage and they would place them carefully in canoe, which I did on subsequent trips. NOTE - when I booked it was early in the year. Only 1 group had gone ahead of me, but as summer progressed they would have a party on almost every trip. The popularity has been increasing. I was told by the ticketing person to always check for festivals going on in the area - that is when the trains would fill up and your plans might be impacted.