​Solo tripper canoe preferences?

[Guest]

If buying a new boat I'd feel forced to buy a more general purpose hull and if buying used, which is what I always used to do, I'm at the mercy of what comes up on the market. Whether or not anything I build will perform better for my purposes than something I could have bought I don't know and in the long run I'll spend more money building than if I'd just went and bought myself a couple of nice, new, canoes. But it makes me happy, teaches me a lot, and gives me something to do in the winter.

Yeah, there is that. You have the skills, ability and experience to custom build a canoe for your preferences and uses, and escape the design limitation compromises of manufactured canoes.

Given the market availability, and cost of used, quality-built tripping canoes, you are still probably coming out ahead, and certainly getting a more purpose built tripping design. Not to mention the continuing education, enjoyment and idle hands occupation.

Used market availability aside, what canoe model present or past would folks look for to modify for solo tripping? And why?

Your answers, paddling venue and tripping style important, are no doubt far different than mine, but I’m curious.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Used market availability aside, what canoe model present or past would folks look for to modify for solo tripping? And why?

Your answers, paddling venue and tripping style important, are no doubt far different than mine, but I’m curious.

I don't know what you mean by the word "modify", but after a long career of boat owning and experimentation, the best commercially available solo canoe for extended tripping, for my venues and for my style, is the Hemlock SRT.

My solo style is 95% kneeling and 5% sitting. Whether kneeling or sitting, I'll paddle 95% of the time with single-sided correction strokes and the rest of the the time Minnesota switching. I usually switch paddle only in strong winds or when going up strong currents, and I'll probably be on my knees when switch paddling in those conditions.

My preferred venue is moving water. I also love swamps, sloughs and vlies. Of course, one can't avoid lakes, so I've paddled a thousand of them. In sum, I want a solo tripping canoe that can handle class 3 whitewater, be fast on lakes, and be maneuverable enough for twisty streams and swamp slaloms.

It needs to be deep for tripping loads, have a full bow to lift over waves, be narrow enough to be fast on the flats, have recessed gunwales but not gimmicky "shouldered tumblehome", have relatively parallel gunwales at the paddling station, have fore-aft adjustable seating, have a differential rockerline, sheerline and waterline, be turnable on a heel -- and, crucial to tripping convenience, have slotted gunwales to attach all sorts of ropes, straps and equipment.

The SRT, in my experience, is the best commercial canoe for all these needs. HERE's my review of it on Pnet. HERE's the Hemlock site description.

I haven't "modified" it other than to outfit it with a Wenonah footbrace, neoprene (much better than minicell) kneeling pads, thigh straps both for kneeling in whitewater and seated for switch paddling, and two different seats -- a Deal bucket seat and a Conk comfort curve webbed seat.

Would I change anything on the SRT if I were a magical boat builder? Yes, I'd have it made with a lighter weight laminate (which Dave Curtis does now offer), no gelcoat to save even more weight (which Dave will resist), and would prefer it to have just a tad more initial stability for seated paddling.

In short, the SRT is the solo canoe I'd trust my life to all alone in the varied waters of remote wilderness -- if I did that anymore, which I don't. And, quite honestly, I never did it to the extent others on this forum do.

 

[pblanc]

For river tripping if I take a composite boat I favor the Curtis Dragonfly, although if there are going to be significant rapids I intend to run I might go with my Hemlock Shaman.

If I am concerned about beating the boat up in low water conditions I would probably take a Royalex boat and I have generally used whitewater designs for that purpose. Today my choice would likely be the Mad River ME which has great carrying capacity and reasonable efficiency (for a whitewater boat). Or I would take a "beater" composite boat like my fiberglass Wenonah WWC1.

For flat water if I can pack lightly enough, my Wenonah Advantage ultra-light Kevlar. If my hip and shoulder allow me to make another trip to the Boundary Waters/Quetico area this will be the boat I take given its light weight and flat water efficiency.

I have found that whitewater playboats of sufficient size, and downriver racers do just fine as river trippers. They may not be the fastest designs out there but if you have helpful current it really doesn't matter that much.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I don't know.

I have a barn of favorites. It depends on the day and the venue.

For tripping I like my newish Colden WildFire though it is not outfitted with a foot bar yet. For that reason I often switch to the Curtis Nomad ( now produced by Colden) which does have a footbar.

I don't favor rivers

I do like the DragonFly but if its lightly loaded to sit in it is a test of attention. I like to swap around from sitting to kneeling. We will see how hard that is in the spring.. Right now knee is working just on recovering from replacement

The boats are all DY designs which are very good for waveshedding and being out on gnarly lakes. The SRT I suspect ( by Harold Deal) evolved from some of DYs ideas which were modified. Such is the life of a canoe family tree

Big water( we have the ocean here) either the Monarch or the RapidFire.. Depends on how much schlepping to be done.. 55 lbs or 23..

Argosy I hate I suspect we keep it cause sometimes we wander to the Ozarks to the land of willows and gravel bars. Same for the Raven

 

[dave0]

It sound like this is a post about solo boats but I'll jump in with my experiences with one hull I have. Back in the day when money was tight I ended up buying a 158 Disco in 99'. I modified the heck out of over the years for sailing, poling and paddling. I've even rigged it for a rudder and lee board! For many years it was the only boat I had as I couldn't afford another, dirt poor. Heavy as heck, free board was a little low but I took it everywhere and it was up until last year my tripping boat. I retired her except for poling as I feel it is one of the best, for me, poling boats I've ever owned. I've taken that ol' Hogged Backed Saint, a moniker I was not responsible for, took me on more rivers class II, III, lakes, ponds then I can count as well as the ocean on more than one occasion. I've pulled thwarts out for trips, moved seats, added foot peg lines for the rudder whatever took my fancy for making it a better rig. I figure I have something like 7-8 thousand miles on it over its life with me.

I added a picture of it pinned on a small stream which took over an hour to unpin. It survived handsomely for the rest of the trip, not something some of the other boats out there would last through.

I know it's not an SRT, a Dragon Fly, a DY build, a Curtis or Hemlock or a composite. It is a Disco. But it is a solo canoe to me at this point in time. I hate having another soul in it with me.

In recent years I have aquired a few other hulls which are easier to move around but the Disco was my first solo boat.

dougd

 

[Guest]

I don't do fast moving water and avoid big lakes if I can. I also prefer smallish solos-they are more fun. I paddle kneeling 90% of the time, and use either a straight single paddle, or a a double blade. If a trip involves a lot of tight turns or long carrys, I love my 25# Colden Flashfire. If making millage and straighter waters are involved, I paddle my Swift keewayden 14 set up for kneeling. For winter paddling or when there are rocks I paddle my Royalite Mohawk solo 13. Surprisingly for me, I don't have a big desire for a new boat.
Turtle

 

[eckilson]

I don't have much choice - I can either use my whitegold Wildfire, or my royalex Yellowstone Solo (Wildfire). Either way it works out fine.

 

[frozentripper]

Mike,

...what canoe model present or past would folks look for to modify for solo tripping? And why?

A past canoe model (from about 1910 IIRC) was this stripper... Bear Mountain's Huron, which seemed to be about the right size, a smaller tandem that could be suitable for multiple-use including solo. Besides being described as "quick and responsive", it is roomy enough and comfortable enough to stretch out in, relax and put your feet up on a thwart, sit on the bottom and let the waves toss the boat around after a few hours of paddling and at my age that's time well spent.

The modification for solo needs to be a moveable seat installed for kneeling and sitting closer to the center when paddling light or empty... right now the bow seat is fixed and the canoe will run level fully loaded on solo trips. But lately there have been far more solo day paddles than tandem and a moveable seat should make it perform better (a water-filled jug placed way up front is being used to level the canoe out for now).

I'm sure all strippers would agree, looks count for something. The lines on the Huron looked great on paper and I've enjoyed seeing it in whatever scenery it happens to be in on the water or at the campsite.

 

[Robin]

I cast my vote for the 15' wood canvas Chestnut Chum. Sure, it's a 50's design, heavy at around 58lbs, not a speedster, but once you start paddling a wood canvas canoe you want to slow down and enjoy the ride.
It's a tandem but I would only take an experienced paddler and then we would probably need to knell for a while till we got used to the canoe.
It's 29 1/2" at the gunnels, that is from the canvas to canvas width.
Being wood canvas construction, it's always possible to get it back into like new or even better than new condition. Mine has one broken rib and 3 cracked ribs from the Marshall Lake circuit 3 years ago from running rapids I should have portaged in hind site. The hull is still true and I'll replace them when the canvas gets worn out.
I really like wood canvas canoes, and there could be others that might be as good or better, but I have found the 15' Chestnut Chum to be my favorite solo tripper.

 

[BWCA66]

My style is sitting up in my seat. Can't stand kneeling, will do it if needed in fast water, can't stand sitting in the bottom in a tiny lightweight hull or kayak. Usually have always paddled 17" canoes but have tried a Wenonah solo, a Bell solo and a couple different 10-12" sit in bottom lightweight canoes. This past June I solo paddled a 14"6" Merrimack 100+ miles down the Missouri river and am learning to like smaller tandom canoes. If I had to chose right now that would be my choice although I do have a 16' Prospector in the works that has a bit of rocker so I am excited to see how that paddles.

 

[bcelect]

I love my Kevlar gelcoat Prism, it is long, lean, and fast. I do not pack light so my packs are always above the gunwales. I will eventually learn to pack smaller and lighter, but this boat handles better with a load, it glides with ease. I modified the tractor seat portage yoke system with an extended the seat tubing to act as a backrest while paddling, I also have a canoe cart which fits inside the hull nicely. I do enjoy the scenery but at a faster pace.

 

[martin2007]

Nice boat, Glenn. I really like the wood boats, Frozentripper and Robin. Yes, tandems paddled backwards from the bow seat aren't speed demons, but what can be sweeter than good weather days spent paddling in traditional hull designs in beautiful warm wood? And after all, what's the rush? I let go of a boat this summer, a boat that meant a lot to me: a Bastien Brothers' 15' Huron. Kristy and Karin bought her, and because it's them and they do good things with boats, I have no regrets. I liked the Huron's simplicity. Sturdy gut-laced seats. Her soft gurgling sound as she hit her stride. Her natural inclination when lightly heeled at speed to self-correct towards the paddle-side. The fact that I'd been lots of places with her certainly had a lot to with her status as possible fleet favourite. Being wood and canvas had a lot to do with that. I let her go because up to now, and in the probable future, I lack the drive and the discipline to restore my own boats. And, yes, I do have other boats that I love to paddle and that weigh less. This year the boats I paddled the most were the Tyne (as pictured earlier in this thread), a Chestnut Pal marketed as a Peterborough (Champlain), a Tremblay Sioux, a Swift Osprey, and a Penobscot. Each of these boats does some things really well and were good choices in the given context. Perfect tripping boat? I think for me there's no such thing, or perhaps, I just haven't met her yet. Good to think about, though!

 

[yellowcanoe]

Aah.. wood .. My little wood solo is fine for day tripping..But its overthwarted and does not accommodate packs easily and I am not about to rip lovely sculpted thwarts out. Tom MacKenzie built wood dacron solos sized according to the paddler size.. Based on Chestnut designs overall. Hand caned seat..

Never want to fiddle with it.. Can't get it anymore.. Tom passed last year.

Its my go to day tripper for exploring at home.

 

[Guest]

It sound like this is a post about solo boats but I'll jump in with my experiences with one hull I have. Back in the day when money was tight I ended up buying a 158 Disco in 99'. I modified the heck out of over the years for sailing, poling and paddling. I've even rigged it for a rudder and lee board! For many years it was the only boat I had as I couldn't afford another, dirt poor. Heavy as heck, free board was a little low but I took it everywhere and it was up until last year my tripping boat.

Doug, I have followed the travels of the Hog Backed Saint for years, retracing old Indian routes under paddle, pole and sail. There are more miles and more waters under that Disco than 99% of the canoes ever sold.

I didn’t really mean “designed” solo canoes, I meant preference in canoes paddled solo. I remain a big boy, big load fan of tandems modified for solo paddling.

Like your Disco I feel the same way about my soloized Penobscot. Much as I love our decked canoes, and (weigh-wise) the UL kevlar foam core Malecite, if I could keep only one boat that Royalex tank would be it. I can do everything in my preferred paddling realm in the Penobscot and then some, with assurance that if I screw up I can still paddle a slightly bent canoe home.

It isn’t a great whitewater boat, at least with the tripping load I carry, and it isn’t especially fast on the flats. But it is as day-long comfortable and functional as any boat I own. Comfortable contour padded solo seat, back band, massive custom carved minicel knee bumper braces, kneeling and heel pads, foot brace, D-rings and webbing ties for gear and float bags, skid plates, spray covers, sail thwart and rudder.

Tex’s Riverways called it the Inspector Gadget boat. I think they were just jealous.

Yeah, it is close to 65 lbs with the permanent outfitting, and seems to grow heavier every year, but it remains my go-to do-everything tripping canoe.

To the question, if I could pick a past or present canoe model to modify for big boy/big load tripping purposes I would look for much the same dimensions as the Penobscot. Same 16+ feet (and maybe a bit more), 32-ish inches wide at the gunwales (I drew the Penobscot in a tad), shallow arch (or shallow vee) bottom, 14-ish inches deep at center, 20 inches + at the stems, symmetrical, with just a touch more rocker.

Oh yeah, in a sub 50 lb “expedition” weight lay up of kevlar/carbon/basalt/interfreakingnegra/spider silk composite schedule. Or, more economically, a used old school kevlar and S-glass canoe with rotted brightwork to replace.

I could drop easily 5 lbs or more from the permanent Penobscot outfitting with better materials and more forethought. If I could get that canoe near or under 50 lbs I’d be good for the next decade.

Which past or present canoes best fit that big boy weight and gear load displacement and dimensional criteria?

Mikey needs to find a winter shop project.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'm now conflicted about this topic.

I interpreted the OP to be talking about solo canoes specifically designed for self-sustained trips by a lone paddler for weeks or a month in Siberia, Uzbekistan or Nepal -- with miles of unfamiliar rapids, rock-bashing lining and tracking, portaging, gigantic lake waves, yeti attacks, and no homo sapiens for parsecs. In that context, I would never consider a 25 lb. canoe, any fragile canoe, a 13' canoe, or a canoe with less than 14" of depth. But that's just me.

On the other hand, I've never paddled in such places and never will. I've often said I'm not a "real wilderness" paddler. By that, I'm just arbitrarily defining the common routes in the Adirondacks, Maine, Algonquin Park, the Boundary Waters, and big western U.S rivers not to be "real wilderness". I say that because on those common routes one is really never that far from houses, roads, hiking trails, or other boats eventually coming along during the paddling season. So, in those places, one can realistically "trip" in virtually any canoe.

Finally, if we're just talking about day tripping on the flats or whitewater, I have canoes more enjoyable for that than my SRT.

Oh, I do consider most of northern Canada to be real wilderness. I've never had the opportunity to go there, and now it's too late. (In fact, I refuse to go anywhere in Canada ever again -- but that's a different story.)

 

[Jim Dodd]

Still looking for the PERFECT SOLO.

I'm pretty happy with my strippers, for how I use them.

​ Picked up a Bell Wildfire awhile back. It was set up with a high seat for kneeling. I lowered the seat. Still don't like it. Mostly for stability reasons.

​ I'm liking my Nokomis, but need to spend more time in it ! Hoping to get it, or my CF Nokomis to the BWCA, next year, and wring it out more.

I did paddle Alan's Composite Bloodvein , and it was quite comfortable.

​ I too am a sitter, not a kneeler. My knees, just don't agree, and my legs cramp up.

This thread does provide some interesting info ! Thanks Mike for starting it !

Jim

 

[Canotrouge]

So far, my favorite canoe to paddle solo is my composites creation 16' expedition. It is not a racing hull by any means, but it is roomy, fast for its style and can cary load like no other 16 footer I've seen!! It is stable, I can pole with it, it is quite dry in class 2-3 ww, and relatively light weight at around 55 pounds. It surfs really well, paddle really well in windy conditions and it is one tough canoe!!!

I always thought I would like a longer boat, and I've had a few longer one, 17, 17.5 and 18 footers, but I found that what I like more is a deep boat and a boat that is beamier than the average. I like it when they have sharp entry lines, but widens quite quick.

I'm a kneeler, 90% of the time. I paddle rivers 80% of the time some with rapids up to class III, and some flat moving water.

My next canoe will be a W/C but I'm not sure what it will be yet!!

 

[Guest]

For tripping I like my newish Colden WildFire though it is not outfitted with a foot bar yet. For that reason I often switch to the Curtis Nomad ( now produced by Colden) which does have a footbar.

Well dang, install a foot brace; a simple pop riveted Wenonah slider, Harmony slide lock pedals or Plexused rails, whatever you prefer. Or pay a skilled outfitter shop to do so. Even at a $70 shop labor hour rate that is well worth the price (it isn’t a difficult or time consuming task).

BTW, I have heard that BMO outfitting guru Kris is soon to retire, although his replacement seems well learned. Maybe drop the Colden off en route south for some outfitting expertise by the best ever before he leaves.

Argosy I hate I suspect we keep it cause sometimes we wander to the Ozarks to the land of willows and gravel bars. Same for the Raven

Yeah, I completely understand keeping certain canoes for specific just-so venues and purposes. I gotta ask, what do you hate about the Agrosy? Or the Raven?

My little wood solo is fine for day tripping..But its overthwarted and does not accommodate packs easily and I am not about to rip lovely sculpted thwarts out.

Never want to fiddle with it.. Can't get it anymore.. Tom passed last year.

While I appreciate the heritage design of some of our vintage canoes, that has never stopped me from modifying the seat or thwart positions. I’d like to believe that the craftsman responsible for the original design and build would appreciate my custom tweaking the hull to better suit my needs, if only so the canoe was paddled more, not less.

As far as OEM resale value goes I don’t care. My purpose plan isn’t to re-sell them as intact historical artifacts, it is to paddle them as often as possible, modifications be danged. And I think my mods have largely been value added.

Even proudly self-proclaimed tool-useless Glenn admits

I haven't "modified" it other than to outfit it with a Wenonah footbrace, neoprene (much better than minicell) kneeling pads, thigh straps both for kneeling in whitewater and seated for switch paddling, and two different seats -- a Deal bucket seat and a Conk comfort curve webbed seat.

Well Glenn, you have gone and done fucked up the value of that original SRT design. I’ll give you $200 and a case of gluten-free Pomegranate juice in trade.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Well Glenn, you have gone and done fucked up the value of that original SRT design. I’ll give you $200 and a case of gluten-free Pomegranate juice in trade.

Make it $750 and a fire-in-a-pot and you could have a great deal. I then might have enough for Dave Curtis to make me a lighter laminate version.

This picture was the Attack of the White SRT's on the Jersey Pine Barrens, by Harold Deal, Conk and me (the mutant boat).

A couple of years earlier, Harold, Conk and fairly new paddler crossed Lake Ontario in SRT's. HERE are write-ups and pictures by Harold and Conk.

 

[Alan Gage]

A few years ago the answer would have been my Bell Magic. Lightweight, fast, narrow, and pretty hard tracking. I took it on a couple shorter lake trips with Sadie up to 10 days and it did fine. Could have easily done more. But as I've spent more time doing longer trips I've come to appreciate a canoe with more maneuverability and more volume to carry gear and shed waves better. The added maneuverability isn't just for moving water but I like it on flat water too when paddling narrow channels or even just trying to thread my way between rocks to access a landing.

I really like my Bloodvein design a lot. I'd been kicking around the idea of selling my Magic for a couple years but just couldn't bring myself to do it. After taking a trip in the Bloodvein, and then taking the Magic out a couple more times, I sold it without hesitation. The Bloodvein is 16.5'x30" with differential rocker, around 2" in the stern and closer to 3" in the bow. It paddles easy enough when empty that I can comfortably day trip in it. It's pretty maneuverable when empty but tracks well enough for sit and switch. When loaded for a trip it obviously tracks harder but still responds ok for turning. On my last trip it held 45 days worth of gear and food, plus the dog. In spite of this it still retains good speed and in an all out sprint is only .1mph slower than I could do in the Magic.

If I was to make a version 3.0 of this boat there would be a few changes but they'd be very minor. For my paddling style I don't know that it can me beat for typical Canadian shield paddling with my dog. The full composite layup seems to be very tough and comes in at 43 pounds. I love the sliding bucket seat on a narrow pedestal which allows me to very quickly and easily shift between sitting and kneeling without having the wrangle my feet under/out of the seat and there are zero entrapment worries in case of a capsize. Inside gunwale profile is heavily rounded so water drains immediately when picked up. Gunwales are just wide enough in front of my feet and behind the seat that my CCS Pioneer pack, or 30L barrel in carry pack, can fit sideways.

20160809_118 by Alan, on Flickr

Make it $750 and a fire-in-a-pot and you could have a great deal.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, Mike. It's not the fixer upper you're looking for but when's the next time you're going to get a shot at an SRT for that price?

Alan