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Wow, when you start some thing you don't waste our time... I mean your time!!
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Happy National Apple Pie Day! 🍎🥧😋
Solo expedition build
- Thread starter Alan Gage
- Start date
When get into something I tend to get fixated on it, been that way my whole life. If I hadn't worked on the canoe all weekend I wouldn't have had anything to do. Well, that's probably not accurate. I have plenty of things I could do but I wouldn't have done any of them. 
The staple puller looks nice, Jim. Thanks for the offer but I see they only cost a few bucks on Amazon and we've got a Prime account here at work so I went ahead and ordered one and it will be here tomorrow.....if things go really well I might need it by then! I think pulling staples on this one will be a pain. My old stapler left the heads a little proud so I could just grab and pull. But I guess I dropped it on its head one too many times so I had to buy a new one and this one is sinking them flush. For the few I've had to remove so far I've been using a sharpened screwdriver with the tip bent to a slight hook.
Alan
The staple puller looks nice, Jim. Thanks for the offer but I see they only cost a few bucks on Amazon and we've got a Prime account here at work so I went ahead and ordered one and it will be here tomorrow.....if things go really well I might need it by then! I think pulling staples on this one will be a pain. My old stapler left the heads a little proud so I could just grab and pull. But I guess I dropped it on its head one too many times so I had to buy a new one and this one is sinking them flush. For the few I've had to remove so far I've been using a sharpened screwdriver with the tip bent to a slight hook.
Alan
Jim, thanks for that pic of the staple puller, I'm going to order one of those suckers up! Pulling staples is always one of my least favorite things to do!
Glad you got one on the way ! They work great, and a quality tool .One would expect to pay twice the price !
I use to modify the anvils in my staplers to leave the staples proud. Now I just build up the bottom of the stapler with tape.
Jim
I use to modify the anvils in my staplers to leave the staples proud. Now I just build up the bottom of the stapler with tape.
Jim
Anybody ever work with those composite staples that are just sanded off rather than pulled?
I tried them a couple builds ago. Didn't like them. The staples had a tendency to break when driving and they're thicker gauge than the metal stapes so they tended to split the wood more often and punched bigger holes in the cedar so the staples legs didn't have the friction to hold them tight (it wouldn't drive the staples flush). They also had a lot of blowout on the backside that would push the strip away from the form. I switched back to metal staples halfway through the stripping process. It only takes about 30-40 minutes to pull them all out so it's not a big deal.
Oh, and when I beat the forms (particle board) from the hull the composite staples caused the forms to break apart on the edge in places rather than the staples shearing off.
All that being said they must have some positive points since it's what NW canoe in St Paul uses on their builds. I believe they're driving them pneumatically and use composite brad nails as well. Maybe that works better.
Alan
Alan, thanks for the update. I asked because NW Canoe uses them but I didn't know anybody else who had tried them.
Filled in the bottom:
20150302_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
Played around a bit:
20150302_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
And then got one side filled in at the bow:
20150302_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
20150302_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
20150302_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
It's starting to look like a boat! Hope to finish stripping tomorrow.
Alan
20150302_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
Played around a bit:
20150302_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
And then got one side filled in at the bow:
20150302_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
20150302_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
20150302_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr
It's starting to look like a boat! Hope to finish stripping tomorrow.
Alan
I thought the same thing. It's hard to trust your eyes sometimes.
It sure is. But even before I had a band saw it was amazing how fast you can shape them with just a small plane cupped in the palm.
A little trick I learned towards the end of the evening that I hope continues working:
When I have to cut a miter and fit a strip I hold it in place, put a mark at each end of the cut, connect the marks with a straight edge (scrap strip), cut it on the bandsaw, test fit in place, and then make adjustments with the small plane and block of sandpaper. Sometimes it goes quickly and other times, like when the miter needs to be a little curvy rather than straight, it can take quite a few rounds of fit, trim, fit, trim, etc...
So what I started doing was using the miter I'd just cut as a template for the next strip. Of course it's not perfect but it seems to be about as close as the initial band saw cut gets me most of the time. It eliminates the first few steps of the process and helps to speed things up. This worked pretty good for about 5 strips until I neared the end of the bow when the angle started to change dramatically and the miter from one strip to the next was very different. Wish I would have started doing it on the tedious bottom section. I'll try it again tonight as I finish up stripping to see if it keeps working.
Alan
I fit my strips a little differently. I have used a band saw to rough out but now it just use a knife. Place the strip to be fitted over the gap that it will go into, using an exacto knife I mark the start and end pts. Flip the piece over and using a straight edge mark the cut line with the exactly knife. Now if there is a lot of strip on the cut of side I simply snap the excess off with my hands. Using the exacto I pare back to the line and finish up with a block plane. Less dust, less walking less noise and just as quick as using a band saw.
The exacto knife helps me be very precise compared to a pencil. Probably 75% of the time I get the fit first shot.
When I have a piece that's captured on both ends I do this. First end normal the with the first end in place I put a pencil mark near the far end. The mark allows me to check the fit of the second cut without having to inset the first end every time. This is really helpful on long pieces and saves wear and tear on the first cut.
The exacto knife helps me be very precise compared to a pencil. Probably 75% of the time I get the fit first shot.
When I have a piece that's captured on both ends I do this. First end normal the with the first end in place I put a pencil mark near the far end. The mark allows me to check the fit of the second cut without having to inset the first end every time. This is really helpful on long pieces and saves wear and tear on the first cut.
Interesting that you do the initial shaping with an exacto knife, I never would have thought of that. Can it remove more material/swipe than the plane? Are there some pieces it doesn't work with? I certainly notice with the plane that some strips plane beautifully and others not so much depending on grain orientation.
I assume you're marking your strips from below? I can see where the exacto knife would come in handy there. I've tried that method (from below) but found it difficult to hold the strip in place and get accurate marks from below with a pencil. Using a mechanical pencil with the lead sticking out a long ways helps with accuracy but of course the lead is delicate and tends to break. So I've been marking my strips from the top side. Not as accurate and after cutting on the bandsaw I probably have 25% that fit with nothing more than a quick swipe of sandpaper to smooth the cut. But it gets it close to where a few swipes with the plane achieve a good fit and my band saw is on wheels so I bring it to the end of the canoe where it's only a few steps away. I agree that if you were having to walk any distance to the saw you would make better time trimming by hand.
I'm sure your average joint is better than mine. Some of mine are a bit sloppy but I don't mind. If there's a gap after sanding I'll fill it with thickened and colored epoxy and once it's fiberglassed I never notice them again. On strips that are fitted on both ends I don't use a single strip but instead butt joint them somewhere in between. I've done them once piece before and it drove me nuts to get one joint perfect and then goof the other one up a little, resulting in a wasted strip that was now too short. I like the idea of marking the placement with a pencil so you don't have to seat and unseat the completed joint for test fitting.
Hopefully as I build more boats and gain more experience this process will get easier with better fitting joints. I've got some new ideas to help me now.
Thanks,
Alan
I assume you're marking your strips from below? I can see where the exacto knife would come in handy there. I've tried that method (from below) but found it difficult to hold the strip in place and get accurate marks from below with a pencil. Using a mechanical pencil with the lead sticking out a long ways helps with accuracy but of course the lead is delicate and tends to break. So I've been marking my strips from the top side. Not as accurate and after cutting on the bandsaw I probably have 25% that fit with nothing more than a quick swipe of sandpaper to smooth the cut. But it gets it close to where a few swipes with the plane achieve a good fit and my band saw is on wheels so I bring it to the end of the canoe where it's only a few steps away. I agree that if you were having to walk any distance to the saw you would make better time trimming by hand.
I'm sure your average joint is better than mine. Some of mine are a bit sloppy but I don't mind. If there's a gap after sanding I'll fill it with thickened and colored epoxy and once it's fiberglassed I never notice them again. On strips that are fitted on both ends I don't use a single strip but instead butt joint them somewhere in between. I've done them once piece before and it drove me nuts to get one joint perfect and then goof the other one up a little, resulting in a wasted strip that was now too short. I like the idea of marking the placement with a pencil so you don't have to seat and unseat the completed joint for test fitting.
Hopefully as I build more boats and gain more experience this process will get easier with better fitting joints. I've got some new ideas to help me now.
Thanks,
Alan
Every builder develops, their own technic. Experience is a great teacher!
My first canoe had soo much yellow glue, oozing from the joints, it looked as if someone painted it on.
I sanded and sanded with an old 1/4 sheet sander. I wore that old Craftsman out. I still had yellow glue showing. I glassed the hull. And to this day you can easily see yellow glue. After that, I quit using yellow glue !
Experience is a great teacher !
Now, I'm scotch with strip glue, the strips need only to hold together long enough until I'm done sanding. After that epoxy will slip into the joints, and provide a much better binder.
I apologize for my ramblings !
Jim
My first canoe had soo much yellow glue, oozing from the joints, it looked as if someone painted it on.
I sanded and sanded with an old 1/4 sheet sander. I wore that old Craftsman out. I still had yellow glue showing. I glassed the hull. And to this day you can easily see yellow glue. After that, I quit using yellow glue !
Experience is a great teacher !
Now, I'm scotch with strip glue, the strips need only to hold together long enough until I'm done sanding. After that epoxy will slip into the joints, and provide a much better binder.
I apologize for my ramblings !
Jim
Another method of tapering those pesky strips that I've found useful and easy is an apron plane clamped upside down in a vise. I draw the strip along the stationary plane. Gives me good control over the strip even when the grain run isn't ideal.
I was thinking the other day what makes this such a nice group of builders is the diversity. Stripperguy is building super light with carbon gunwales, Dave is putting a lot of thought and work into beautiful stripping patterns, Memaquay is building tanks that will last a life time, Momentum is working on the build of a lifetime, and I'm trying to kick them out the door as fast as I can. Fun mix to watch.
Alan
And all of them have one common goal...to get out on the water. That's what unites us all.
I'm itching to get back to mine, but for now, I'll have to keep hanging out in your warm shop. I can almost smell the cedar aroma.
Get back to work Alan, what are you doing slacking off?
I'm itching to get back to mine, but for now, I'll have to keep hanging out in your warm shop. I can almost smell the cedar aroma.
Get back to work Alan, what are you doing slacking off?
For planing those end bevels I generally plane wood in one hand plane in the other. The key I've found is to keep the plane really sharp. I really like my lo angle Stanley block plane for this it makes a big difference. For those really long tapers I plane first and cleanup the tip with 120 grit. Works really well, reasonably fast and easy to control. I find gluing the sandpaper to a flat table works best.
I agree that this a great site with great people. That's probably why I keep checking posts whenever I go online.
I agree that this a great site with great people. That's probably why I keep checking posts whenever I go online.
