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Jim, yes-- nice boat on a splendid river! Where is that?
Solo Canoe Seating
- Thread starter Peach Canoe
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Cedar river in North East Iowa. Spent three days on it scouting for a DNR river clean up. It was too clean, so we're heading to Southern Iowa this year.
Jim
I felt the same way about the Rendezvous tumblehome (with no real evidence) that I wouldn't like its cross current behavior. The fine entry and low flair didn't excite me either.
I was looking for a versatile solo tripper that leaned towards whitewater performance first and flatwater second. I fitness paddle/flyfish our mountain lakes but my tripping is on rivers.
There are so many good boats out their its easy to vapor lock with paralysis of analysis :- )
I go back and forth on flotation in my boat. I don't really have any whitewater day runs and take up a fair amount of volume with gear out tripping. I probably will just because it would make it easier to unpin alone and maybe prevent a wrap.
Harmony has some vinyl bags for canoes with built in flotation that would work, not excited about vinyl though.
....anyway I'm way out in the weeds past 'solo seating' haha
I was looking for a versatile solo tripper that leaned towards whitewater performance first and flatwater second. I fitness paddle/flyfish our mountain lakes but my tripping is on rivers.
There are so many good boats out their its easy to vapor lock with paralysis of analysis :- )
I go back and forth on flotation in my boat. I don't really have any whitewater day runs and take up a fair amount of volume with gear out tripping. I probably will just because it would make it easier to unpin alone and maybe prevent a wrap.
Harmony has some vinyl bags for canoes with built in flotation that would work, not excited about vinyl though.
....anyway I'm way out in the weeds past 'solo seating' haha
I have an Argosy and it may be like the Rendezvii in river behavior. Its low down wide part on the hull encourages waves to ride up and over the sides. Its fine bow slices through waves. Google coanda efffect. Rather than bouncing away the water just sticks to the hull like a magnet. I paddled the Buffalo with some folks with fiberglass Rendezvouses (ii). They all flipped after taking in a lot of water in three foot tall wave trains. Not that I did any better but I made it to train 13 not six.
Cross currents as in reflecting waves are terrifyiing in the Argosy . I came out of a lock on the Allegheny RIver and there was a malestrom of confused sea resulting from floodwaters overtopping the adjacent dam and coming across and hitting a retaining wall and bouncing bac. Never never again.
Solo seating... I hate the Argosys adjustable.. It self adjusts mid rapid. I bolted it in place.
Cross currents as in reflecting waves are terrifyiing in the Argosy . I came out of a lock on the Allegheny RIver and there was a malestrom of confused sea resulting from floodwaters overtopping the adjacent dam and coming across and hitting a retaining wall and bouncing bac. Never never again.
Solo seating... I hate the Argosys adjustable.. It self adjusts mid rapid. I bolted it in place.
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I bag all my boats--yes, even my 17' Old Towns. What space I don't take up with gear I try to fill up with bag. Watching Bill Mason jump out of his boat in a rapid to dump fills me with anxiety. (Just put bags in it before it gets away!) And while I may leave the seats in the bigger boats, I also install pedestals, pads, straps, and foot pegs into all of them as well. Then I lash my gear real low and tight to the bottom of the boat so it doesn't move, even if upside down, which introduces to my psyche some sense of security and ease, especially when alone on winter trips. I know that all I've got to do is get out from under the rock (or tree). I can retrieve my boat--which will ride high through anything it runs without me--later. It will probably have all my gear and of course an extra paddle and, if I can find it, will be none the worse for the wear.
Of course, neither do my boats look even half as beautiful as the ones I see on here, so my bags don't really detract from the aesthetic beauty of the form. The boats are mostly function anyway. They are canoes, so of course they have a sort of prima facie beauty, but they are functional, modern canoes made of weird material. But I probably spend more time than I'd care to admit upside down.
I bag all my boats--yes, even my 17' Old Towns. What space I don't take up with gear I try to fill up with bag. Watching Bill Mason jump out of his boat in a rapid to dump fills me with anxiety. (Just put bags in it before it gets away!) And while I may leave the seats in the bigger boats, I also install pedestals, pads, straps, and foot pegs into all of them as well. Then I lash my gear real low and tight to the bottom of the boat so it doesn't move, even if upside down, which introduces to my psyche some sense of security and ease, especially when alone on winter trips. I know that all I've got to do is get out from under the rock (or tree). I can retrieve my boat--which will ride high through anything it runs without me--later. It will probably have all my gear and of course an extra paddle and, if I can find it, will be none the worse for the wear.
Of course, neither do my boats look even half as beautiful as the ones I see on here, so my bags don't really detract from the aesthetic beauty of the form. The boats are mostly function anyway. They are canoes, so of course they have a sort of prima facie beauty, but they are functional, modern canoes made of weird material. But I probably spend more time than I'd care to admit upside down.
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I do put flotation in all canoes that go down rapids, unless on a multi day trip and the boat is full of gear, then the gear is sure in the canoe and act as flotation. I've sen to many boats damaged or lost because they didn't have flotation in them!!
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Here's a photo I posted in Photo of the Day, but it seems it belongs here too. It's a Caribou S outfitted for play in the river.
I traditionally have bagged as well, but have been slow with rigging the Supernova. Trying to strike a balance of relaxed river tripping and full bag cage, straps, cups and saddles. 'The simpler the tool the more required of the workman' sort of thing.
I'm gratefull for the conversation on this forum. My reentry into canoeing has my SW river bro's saying 'who would have thunk it' haha and my wife probably thinks I'm in my midlife crisis :- )
That Caribou S makes yellow look good :- ) Are you happy with the NRS bags? I've been eyeballing the Harmony vinyl bags, they have some that are for boats with end flotation and are 28" long and seem to be the compromise I'm looking for.
I don't haul a lot of gear solo and don't have a 'canoe' pack. I use one of our top loading Watershed drybags. Think of a big zip lock gym bag haha. Why wife bought them, you can get to everything in it without dumping it out. Very nice for the sandy rivers we run in the SW. I also carry a 'wannagin' box thats a NRS clam shell dry box. Pretty much putting our raft gear to double duty
:- )
I like having a hard box for my cook gear and chow. Eating good on trips is a SW tradition haha and I have a smallish, good quality soft cooler my brother gave me. Meat in the bottom, veggies on top separated by a chunk of foam sleep pad.
I like outdoor cooking :- )
I imagine before my first solo trip of the year my boats going to rigged about like the Caibou :- )
..anyway we have one small lake unfroze close by now and I've been getting some paddle time. I've got to fix a solar system this morning and paddling later today :- ) The open water is a water foul conservation pond and takes a .3 mile portage so getting a double work out. AZ folks aren't so accustomed to seeing canoes portaged in our ceder/pinon country haha
I'm gratefull for the conversation on this forum. My reentry into canoeing has my SW river bro's saying 'who would have thunk it' haha and my wife probably thinks I'm in my midlife crisis :- )
That Caribou S makes yellow look good :- ) Are you happy with the NRS bags? I've been eyeballing the Harmony vinyl bags, they have some that are for boats with end flotation and are 28" long and seem to be the compromise I'm looking for.
I don't haul a lot of gear solo and don't have a 'canoe' pack. I use one of our top loading Watershed drybags. Think of a big zip lock gym bag haha. Why wife bought them, you can get to everything in it without dumping it out. Very nice for the sandy rivers we run in the SW. I also carry a 'wannagin' box thats a NRS clam shell dry box. Pretty much putting our raft gear to double duty
:- )
I like having a hard box for my cook gear and chow. Eating good on trips is a SW tradition haha and I have a smallish, good quality soft cooler my brother gave me. Meat in the bottom, veggies on top separated by a chunk of foam sleep pad.
I like outdoor cooking :- )
I imagine before my first solo trip of the year my boats going to rigged about like the Caibou :- )
..anyway we have one small lake unfroze close by now and I've been getting some paddle time. I've got to fix a solar system this morning and paddling later today :- ) The open water is a water foul conservation pond and takes a .3 mile portage so getting a double work out. AZ folks aren't so accustomed to seeing canoes portaged in our ceder/pinon country haha
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This topic is sort of floating away from seats, but I'd think about going the nylon route for air bags. Much lighter and more durable than vinyl. Leave the vinyl for, well, other things like records. And if you're going all out and spending the money, check out Fall Line Canoes based here in Richmond, VA. Shawn does a stand up job welding custom bags that will not only fit your boat (all orders custom welded), but actually survive a trip into the backcountry. (Plus he'll sew pockets and zippers into the cover shell at your request. And he's an all around cool guy.)
I'm just a day tripper that mostly spends his time fishing, but I do need a comfortable seat.
I added an Eds Canoe web seat with a back rest the same size as a Wilderness System Phase 3 seat. Then I added a 1" pad under the cover. The back is adjustable for height and angle.
I added an Eds Canoe web seat with a back rest the same size as a Wilderness System Phase 3 seat. Then I added a 1" pad under the cover. The back is adjustable for height and angle.
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I use three canoes, pretty much. One is a stitch and glue "Eureka 155" that I deliberately shortened to 14' for solo use, or with my then-small/young daughter. For solo use, I installed 3 foam pads on the bottom and first chines to kneel on. There are no seats, but then my trips here in LA are usually short.
My other canoes are a 16' OT Yankee (at 75#, it's not fun to solo) and a 15' OT Fifty Pounder (this one isn't mine, but easily/regularly borrowed). In them, I am a chronic kneeler (usually on my life jacket) until I can't take it anymore (usually about 3-4 hours, then I need a break). I simply hop up onto the seat of the Yankee when I need to stretch, get a snack, water, piddle a bit, then kneel again and get back to work... The Fifty Pounder only has thwarts, and there I have to get creative to pad the thwart enough to sit on it comfortably enough to call it a break...
My other canoes are a 16' OT Yankee (at 75#, it's not fun to solo) and a 15' OT Fifty Pounder (this one isn't mine, but easily/regularly borrowed). In them, I am a chronic kneeler (usually on my life jacket) until I can't take it anymore (usually about 3-4 hours, then I need a break). I simply hop up onto the seat of the Yankee when I need to stretch, get a snack, water, piddle a bit, then kneel again and get back to work... The Fifty Pounder only has thwarts, and there I have to get creative to pad the thwart enough to sit on it comfortably enough to call it a break...
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Fall Line bomber bags are the best there is! I have a few boats outfitted with them and they are some what pricey, but the quality is like no others!! And Shawn in a great guy to deal with!
Jim - What are the dimensions of the wood on your contoured canoe seat? I guess what I'm really asking is whether you get away with using 3/4" stock? DB
Took out my Bell Wildfire today with the stock cane seat, which is flat, and other than comfort realized another reason I don't like that style of seat: too slippery! All it took was for Sadie to shift her weight to one side and I'd find my butt sliding that way too. No big deal today but I don't think I'd like that happening when crossing an eddy line or bumping into a rock mid-rapids. Buckets do a much better job of keeping me centered and I find them more comfortable too. I paddled for years on a cane seat in my Magic and never had a problem but it was a cane bucket seat from Ed's. Not as good (to me) as a regular bucket but not bad.
http://www.rutabaga.com/eds-canoe-cane-bucket-canoe-seat
I think a curved seat like Jim showed would be a much nicer deal than a flat one. As a matter of fact I have sat on a couple of Jim's seats and found them quite comfortable.
Alan
http://www.rutabaga.com/eds-canoe-cane-bucket-canoe-seat
I think a curved seat like Jim showed would be a much nicer deal than a flat one. As a matter of fact I have sat on a couple of Jim's seats and found them quite comfortable.
Alan
Backbands are questionable additions for paddling. My Placid boatworks partner and I experimented with an old timey, twin kidney shaped, rotating backrest that killed everyone who tried it after a half hour. Then, he rubbed his back raw with our standard backband about halfway through the 90 miler a few years ago. He now races with the backband carefully stowed under his pickup capper. He does have perfect technique with lots of torso rotation to a forward catch and drives the boat like heck hounds are on his trail. Those fishing, birdwatching or reading the Economist may appreciate backrests. Paddlers? Not so much.
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I only speak for myself: the most effective back relief is derived from the entire seating 'system', which is a suite of elements.
First I position the seat (fore and aft) with the aim of trimming the boat when empty. In a symmetrical canoe, that's about 1" higher in the bow, with the paddler (me) in the full-kneeling position (both feet beneath the seat, and my butt hooked onto the front of the seat). On my solos, the front of the seat is 5" aft of centre.
The seat is placed high and slightly sloped-- start with 9" off the bare hull to the bottom of the front seat rail, and 10" at the rear. Add a 1/2" kneeling pad that is wide enough to take your max knee-spread, and long enough to keep your toes and heels off the bare (and abrasive) hull. Add a footrest or foot pegs to brace against (the foot brace is the most important element for back relief).
Adjust the seat for height and slope. Mine end up with a 3/4" slope (9" off the bare hull in front, and 9.75" at the rear).
Back relief is enhanced greatly by the ability to move around freely and brace; thus, the configuration of one knee under the seat, one knee on the foot rest, with the butt hooked onto the front of the seat-- enables you to brace and thrust the pelvis forward, arching the back inward. Ahhhhh!
First I position the seat (fore and aft) with the aim of trimming the boat when empty. In a symmetrical canoe, that's about 1" higher in the bow, with the paddler (me) in the full-kneeling position (both feet beneath the seat, and my butt hooked onto the front of the seat). On my solos, the front of the seat is 5" aft of centre.
The seat is placed high and slightly sloped-- start with 9" off the bare hull to the bottom of the front seat rail, and 10" at the rear. Add a 1/2" kneeling pad that is wide enough to take your max knee-spread, and long enough to keep your toes and heels off the bare (and abrasive) hull. Add a footrest or foot pegs to brace against (the foot brace is the most important element for back relief).
Adjust the seat for height and slope. Mine end up with a 3/4" slope (9" off the bare hull in front, and 9.75" at the rear).
Back relief is enhanced greatly by the ability to move around freely and brace; thus, the configuration of one knee under the seat, one knee on the foot rest, with the butt hooked onto the front of the seat-- enables you to brace and thrust the pelvis forward, arching the back inward. Ahhhhh!
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