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Solo Canoe Seating

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What is your seating setup for your solo canoe? Here are some sample conversation-starters: Do you sit low with feet forward; do you kneel on a pad or in kneeling trays; do you sit high and use a foot brace; or do you use some combination of these?

Do you prefer to heel the boat and paddle from one side with knees together in the chine? Do you enjoy a steady diet of sitting in a comfortable tractor seat with both feet forward on a foot rest or foot pegs (sit-and-switch)? Do you use a kayak paddle?
 
Ha ha.. Loaded question. I sit high as I kneel too. I have dedicated solos, so Canadian Style is not needed. I have minicell pads installed in some of my solos, for others ( the wood dacron ones) I use a thicker pad that is removable. I have made some. I never sit low. I do have a foot bar in a couple of the boats. I am not a fan of tractor seats personally; in general that is.. My Mad River Monarch has a very comfortable tractor seat though.
And I have used a kayak paddle. I was a sea kayaker long before I got into canoeing. And I got into solo canoe tripping via the skills I learned in FreeStyle. Nowadays I am more apt to use sit and switch when sitting. I still use a double blade as I do lots of big water paddling and need a brace immediately almost simultaneously on both sides in reflecting waves

I bet you get as many differing answers as there are paddlers as we all trip in various parts of the continent under different conditions.
 
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I paddle a 15' Chestnut Chum, a tandem canoe, reversed (sitting in the bow seat facing the stern seat). I have owned and tripped with dedicated solo canoes, I even restored my first Chum to be a solo with the only seat nearer the middle of the canoe. I never really enjoyed sitting in the middle as much as I do sitting back a ways in the canoe.
I like to see my canoe and packs out front in the big picture.
I probably learned this in the 50's when the only canoes available at the private cabin my family stayed at in Ontario where tandems. I still have two of them, an old Plycraft 17' and later a chopper gun 13'6" tandem.
To answer the question, I could, but never have moved my canoe seat up or down, or tilted it. I just like the way the old timers set it up and I go with that. Some times I sit "manspreading", sometimes I lean the canoe a little while paddling a calm stretch.
I don't lean alot like in those freestyle videos, but then that's not canoetripping with packs and gear that you don't want to loose out there tripping.
I only paddle on the left, unless a wind direction dictates I need to paddle on the right. I move around alot to avoid cramps on long days. I only knell in moving water or high winds.
I don't use a kayak paddle ever.
 
My preferred paddling style is hit and switch with a bent shaft but that doesn't mean I can't or won't paddle with something like a Canadian stroke when I feel like it.

My preferred position is sitting, with the bottom of the seat about 7" off the floor. Foot brace, I feel, is darn near mandatory for sitting in any canoe. Without one I feel like I'm floating around and I find it more tiring, not to mention less comfortable, as I try to find a comfortable position to lock myself in.

But I feel the ability to kneel is important as well for rough water and rapids. I can't get my legs under a seat that's low enough for me to sit comfortably so instead I use a sliding bucket seat on a narrow pedestal. I can sit comfortably and when it comes time to kneel I simply drop down to my knees. No effort trying to squeeze my feet under the seat and no entrapment worries. Very quick and easy to switch back and forth.

20150725_001 by Alan, on Flickr

I've used this setup in a couple of the canoes I've built and like it very much. Will probably make some tweaks but plan to keep using it. No complaints.

Alan
 
When I paddled a dedicated solo boat I didn't like the position of the seat. It was too close to the center for a permantly installed yoke and it was harder to get proper trim. On trips with frequent portages I would kneel against the rear thwart and leave the yoke attatched to save time.

I prefer to take a tandem boat on solo trips because I do most of my paddling standing up. If I were to take ths solo boat out I would instal a seat where the thwart is and put in a yoke.
 
I use a swift solo seat on all my solo canoes. For me it allows all the above options and the best comfort. The turned down front lets you kneel comfortable and still mount the seat nearly level so you can sit without sliding foreword. They are made from laminated, steam bent crossmembers that are strong and lite. the cherry ones are pretty too. I have the sliding one in my swift osprey that allows instant trim adjustment.
Turtle
 
Primarily a sitter, usually like my seat about three inches down from the gunwale. Move around a lot, lean the canoe a bit, no foot braces, nothing fancy for me, just straight ahead.
 
I kneel 90% of the time, tripping in a tandem on a regular web seat! In my ww solo, on a pedestal... Both have knee pads and tight straps.... I never measure the hight on my trippers, but my solo and tandem ww canoes with pedestal, it is around 8 inches of the ground!!
 
Thanks for the question PC. The following is long-winded, but hopefully it can contribute to your future boat design considerations.

I have been solo paddling small tandems exclusively throughout my life, mostly classic prospector-ish designs, many called "prospectors". For the past 25 or so years, exclusively in two Trailhead Prospectors, one composite, one royalex. These are small 16's, and measure 15'8", with a 34 inch beam, so they have a narrower profile than many common prospectors that are listed as 36" beam. Ideally I would like to find a large capacity 33 or 32 inch beam boat for solo with the depth to accommodate big water (rapids and big choppy lakes. Most solos on the market I see are too shallow and too narrow for my 3-6 week loads, and size of waves I encounter). I also like to stand up in the boat to scout, pole, do photography, and to stand and lean the boat up without getting out in order to edge it through rock gardens.

I use the stock bow seat as-is, paddling facing the other way. Bow seat is the standard flat type with lacing (modern cord, not cane, but it emulates the old cane woven type). I kneel and have no problems with getting my feet under the seat. I glued in flat foam (no cups) across the bottom and up the chines for kneeling. I paddle mostly left side, Canadian stroke, with an aggressive lean on the boat loaded or empty, always with a lean, unless its rapids or a windy chop where I will flatten the boat’s ride. Because the prospector likes to want to tilt itself back down when leaned up, then I can get my hip very close to the gunwale. Getting my hip close to the gunwale IMO makes the Canadian stroke what it is. All the angles change the further away from the gunwale that your hips get. I get my smoothest CS for efficient all-day cruising when my hip is close to and almost touching that gunwale. This is one reason why I like a wide boat, because it wants to tilt itself back instead of rolling and tipping. The more the tension of tilt-back force, the more I can "lean into the lean" and get that hip towards the gunwale, and it makes everything better for how my body works. I am short (5”4”), short torso, short arms, and so that likely affects why I need to get close to the gunwale. I think tumblehome might be a critical component of this close-to-gunwale hip position, but that's another topic. But all these things affect how we kneel from, and sit on seats, so its complicated! :)

By gluing a flat foam pad surface across the entire kneeling space, I have a space to accommodate a range of kneeling positions. I kneel sometimes with my knees together in the chine, and in other positions depending on wind and chop, or if running rapids. In winds not conducive for paddling on my left, I have to J or rough Canadian on my right, and also just to rest the left side occasionally. In rapids, or big waves and winds, I am moving toward the middle more and spreading the knees wide. In my tripping boat I cannot reach chine to chine, but the foam I use is fairly grippy. I will lift and slide the knees much more to the offside stroke side to get close to that side, including sliding the right knee into the right chine. With no knee cups in the way, shuffling knees instantly is very easy. But in the bow seat facing the other way, the beam is much narrower there. I can't see doing what I do if I had to sit in the center of a 34 inch beam boat.

I sit on the seat occasionally to stretch the legs and get the blood flowing. Legs get cramped in the kneeling position if I don't stretch out occasionally. I sit in a sort of half open cross legged position, knees facing down but not touching the bottom, feet underneath the seat where the lower legs cross, and that way the outside of each foot (boot) is jammed into the bottom of the boat, and this provides the body grip to paddle while sitting, without pulling myself off the seat. Hence I don't need foot braces out front, since my feet are effectively braced underneath. However this cross-legged position will also eventually cramp up. So I move around alot, and the height of the seat allows me to do this. The seat is suspended from wood gunwales by seat bolts and spacer blocks, and its all adjustable if need be. Suspended seat bolts do however move a lot on every stroke, and I have snapped them, so I carry extra seat bolts in my repair kit.

I paddle OC playboat with a WW saddle in the middle, cupped knee foam, thigh straps, foot pegs, the whole bit, and so I know very well what I am sacrificing in my tripping boats for moving water maneuverability with using the stock bow seat facing the other way. That long pack laden boat in front of me, although trimmed, is still a pig in rapids. I will lift my butt way off the seat to lean forward, especially for the cross bow draw, but of course its not optimum. I wish I could reach in front to the center of the boat. But I really like the permanent center yoke for all the portaging I do, and can't see myself sitting in the center of a big, high capacity tripping boat.

I have thought of moving the bow seat closer to the center, but then I sacrifice some ability to reach to the other side for off side strokes. Also I forgot to mention above that I do use a sea kayak blade for cruising on my long trips (4-6 week trips), when my boat is heavily laden with food and fuel, and grizzly gun, ammo, camera gear, and just a bigger expedition load. Being in the stock bow seat brings the gunwales that much closer for using the sea kayak paddle, so I am not likely to move it forward towards the center.

PC: if you could stretch that Caribou-S to maybe 15' 6", and widen the max beam (gunwale to gunwale) to 32" or 33", keep it nice and deep to 14-15", make it cheeky enough towards each end for lots of pack capacity, then this might be the perfect long trip solo for me. Install a permanent center yoke, and move the solo seat back enough to make room for the paddler. Basically a 15 1/2 foot prospector, just slimmed down a tad, no stern seat, with entry lines a little more buoyant, but not too much because I do want some wave slicing performance.
 
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Primarily a sitter, usually like my seat about three inches down from the gunwale. Move around a lot, lean the canoe a bit, no foot braces, nothing fancy for me, just straight ahead.

X2 the words right out of my mouth !
Braces are OK, I've just not used them enough to elaborate'

My knees won't take a lot f kneeling
 
This is very typical of what I build and use. Lately I've been lowering the seat a little more, maybe an inch. Very important to me is to have the thwart set close enough to the front edge that I can wedge my paddles under the seat, as shown. I also like it close enough to grab when I get out. This is usually about 24-26".

8ee1a689-01bd-48db-914b-e974a50783c6_zps7caae83b.jpg



Jim
 
The only constant I have is always using a kayak paddle. I always sit unless the going gets tough. In my Prism solo I like the low tractor seat so I can easily switch to kneeling. If I am solo in a big tandem I prefer sitting in the stern seat when the waters are small and the weather is good. If doing that I leave enough open space behind the center so I can step forward and kneel behind the center thwart. The pack I have stepped over will be one that I can squat back on or even sit squarely on for longer stretches. I want a foot brace whenever possible.

If I have a partner in the tandem I will gladly take the bowseat with my kayak paddle. With a little adjusting we can make that work well. I can power ahead with the kayak paddle while they add more speed and keep us on course. If it is a young person or a fisherman I take the stern seat and only need assistance in hard crosswinds or stiff headwinds. An old injury is why I only use the kayak paddle.
 
If I have a partner in the tandem I will gladly take the bowseat with my kayak paddle.

I can see that would work, if you didn't throw water into the canoe, as you lift the trailering blade out of the water.

You would be close enough to the bow to keep it dry.

My biggest complaint about a kayak paddle in a dedicated solo, is keeping dry. But I do see a lot of people doing it .

Jim
 
You know... they don't even put tractor seats on tractors anymore!

I'm getting a good chuckle out of this thread at the moment. I bet we're all reading this thread and cringing at each others preferred seat type and paddling positions. It's no wonder so many of us paddle solo. ;)

Alan
 
It's interesting to see the variety in seating configurations and paddling styles; I didn't know the two-bladed (kayak-style) paddle was so popular. As yellowcanoe said, the two-blade makes for a quick brace on either side in big water.

I too applied skills learned in FreeStyle to solo tripping. The 'aha-moment' for my sore lower back came with raising the seat-- this allows for more weight to be taken on your butt in most kneeling positions, and it naturally tucks the lower back forward. I like the big pad because my feet are always on the pad; a Kevlar skin coat interior will shred your bare feet to the bone!

While I don't use a foot rest or foot pegs in FreeStyle, I found the foot rest to be very useful in tripping.

Our Minnesota II came with tractor seats, and I found them to be pretty comfortable. After a couple of years, however, we took them out, altered their locations, and replaced them with dished web seats from Ed's. I think a comfortable knee-spread relates to seat positioning-- though there are always compromises to address.

Jim that's a lovely stripper; what model is it?

Hoop, the Caribou S is 15' 3" with 31.5" at max width, with a 27" gunwale at centre, and I think it's as 'big' as I could make it, without it becoming a Prospector. The Caribou S is less round (its hull is a more flattened shallow ellipse) than a traditional Prospector, and it has fuller ends. The boat you describe, however just may be the Swift Prospector 16 (not the 15). You could re-arrange the furniture, or have the nice folks at Swift do it for you.

FWIW, two intrepid friends of mine took a single Caribou S around the Nitinat Triangle on Vancouver Island. It's 38 Ks of rough slogging on lake, river, and ocean. More than half of the trip is portage, with water-filled and log-strewn trails; it's nasty. But they did it-- I have photos of that if you'd like to see-- two full-grown men jammed into this solo boat!

Here's a shot of the Caribou S prototype with tripping seating.

image_3605.jpeg
 
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I can see that would work, if you didn't throw water into the canoe, as you lift the trailering blade out of the water.

You would be close enough to the bow to keep it dry.

My biggest complaint about a kayak paddle in a dedicated solo, is keeping dry. But I do see a lot of people doing it .

Jim
In high winds my stern paddler has gotten face fulls of water but appreciates how fast we are getting to more favorable waters. In all but hard crosswinds keeping my kayak paddle low and at a low angle keeps me dry in the solo. I keep my knees low and feet braced against the footrest. I also use a Crazy Creek chair and will stuff something in the small of my back so I can be tightly braced in the tough spots and still twist my torso.
 
Jim that's a lovely stripper; what model is it?

Thanks !
The design,( the closest one in the pic) is one of my early Pearls. I had to look close, but the thwart gave it away. Some of the Pearls, I spaced the forms A-symmetrically, some I slightly computer enlarged, but most carry the same stem profile. I'd have to go out and give it a closer look, but I think it's a Asymetrical Pearl.
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Picture070_zpsc898e27f.jpg


canoe on the left.

Jim
 
I don't put seats in my canoes. I like the option of adjusting where I am, how I sit, etc. I get restless legs pretty bad and so it's nice to carry a stadium seat and when sitting gets old I'mm kneel, or drop to the bottom and stretch out, stand up, pace back and forth, whatever! Plus it's nice to not have seats in the way when I'm standing up fly fishing while drifting down a river. My next canoe will be a large family canoe though and for it I'll put fixed seats at each end and just leave the middle open for optional seating arrangements.

 
My seat preferences and paddling style are very similar to Martens. Due to an old wrist injury I use a double blade 90 percent of the time, and that in part drives my seat preferences. I typically install a contour bench seat, slightly canted and positioned further back from center than the usual solo seat position, but I have also found tractor seats comfortable and those seem especially functional in partially decked sea canoes.

Some of that seat preference is driven by other physiological issues. I have size 12 feet, so getting them under the seat, unless it is hung an inch from the gunwales or in absurdly deep canoe, is problematic. I am also big in the upper body with wide shoulders, a thick chest, thicker gut and a big head; a low seat position helps keep that inverted pyramid mass comfortably confined within the gunwales.

After 30 years of outfitting my own boats I know that the comfort part is king for me. All of my seats are padded. All of my boats have a foot brace (or pedals in ruddered boats). All of my boats have some back support, typically a Surf to Summit back band. All of my boats have “knee bumpers”; a piece of minicel foam custom cut, sized and shaped so that I can brace my knees against the gunwales or lock them in below.

Between the foot brace, back band and knee bumpers I can comfortably lock myself in place at five points of body to boat contact, six if you count my arse stuck to a piece of Ridgerest foam.

All of my boats also have a “utility thwart” within reach to accommodate a sail mount, deck compass, lateral bungee and some kind of spare paddle keep. Like Jim I grab that utility thwart when getting in and out of the boat, especially in the decked canoes which are harder to exit than an open canoe. That within reach thwart is also nicely placed to grasp when under the yoke.

About the double blade. A high angle stroke or a too short stick will be very wet. I use a (less efficient) low angle stroke, usually with a 250 or 260cm paddle. Even so there will be some paddle drips off the blade on the reach.

The partially decking and cockpit coming sides of the sea canoes eliminated the double blade drip issue. My go-to open canoes all have spray covers; partial covers across the bow and stern leaving an open, easy egress seating expanse. I almost always use the front partial; it not only keeps out the paddle drips, it sheds bow waves or spray nicely, provides a paddle pocket/strap and shades my food barrel from the sun. It is amazing how much cooler the covered areas stay, not just from occluding the sun, the cool or cold water temps transfer and trap nicely under the covers.

 
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