Northwest Passage Solo

[wysedav]

The tape line worked well, minimal fraying of the cloth. After I cut it I had to go around the edge with a brush to do a little touch up which went well. I think I put the second football layer on top mostly out of habit. When I do it in the outside of the hill I can scrape the edge to make a smooth transition without compromising the full layer.
If I reversed it the only thing I could do is add epoxy to smooth the transition which I don't like to do.
For the inside though I don't really work too hard to make it perfect so I doubt I would sand through the full layer when cleaning it up. It probably would have been fine doing it as you suggested.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Well thought out !

 

[stripperguy]

That compass really does pop!! And you did get a very clean edge on the second layer, how did you avoid cutting into the first layer?
But I don't understand why you would add any more resin than just enough for a wet out...that will only make your hull heavier and the inside more slippery, you won't gain any strength.

 

[Jim Dodd]

But I don't understand why you would add any more resin than just enough for a wet out...that will only make your hull heavier and the inside more slippery, you won't gain any strength.

​ I've debated this with myself, on nearly every canoe, and I always end up completely filling the weave.
I fill the weave so that the inside looks as pretty as the outside, it's just as easy to clean, and I don't stand up in my solos.
​ Also I don't like sanding cloth, that only has a wet out coat. I'm into the weave right away.
​ I agree with the extra weight, and strength issues, they just don't outweigh the benefit in my book.

Jim

 

[stripperguy]

Not knowing wysedav's paddling preferences and physical abilities, I apply my perceptions to his build.
I need to carry often and relatively long distances in the ADK's, and while I'm still a welterweight at 60 years of age, I definitely am not as strong as I once was.
So I try to stay fit, and offset my gradual loss of muscle with lighter weight gear, especially the boat. (less strenuous trips are a compromise I'm not willing to make...just yet).

I suppose I'll eventually need to build a stable of skin-on-frame boats, and later still, reluctantly, cut back on trip intensity.
But until then, I'll save every pound I can when building, and opt for better footing when climbing in and out over dozens of beaver dams in a day.
I fully understand that everyone has different paddling preferences and tolerance for weight/effort, as well as varying criteria for hull aesthetics.
What matters to me may be inconsequential to others...and vice versa.
That's what I like best about this forum, the varied perceptions and viewpoints of so many experienced paddlers and builders!

 

[wysedav]

Well...I squeegied a second coat of epoxy at the cost of about 10oz. of boat weight. I'm not sure if it's worth it because I'm not planning on making the interior a showpiece. My thoughts for doing this are: it's an easy way to level out the seams (partially) without sanding, add some wear capacity before hitting fiberglass, provide some insurance that there are no easy water passages directly to wood. I read somewhere that you should add a second epoxy coat to minimize the chances that there are some tiny airpockets or thin spots on the first coat that will let water contact wood.

SG, trimming to the tape was really easy, I doubled up the tape and just cut on top of it. That way I didn't have to worry about damaging the first layer of FG. Nick Schade, has a website where he builds and instructs on building strip kayaks, he cuts directly on the first layer. Makes me too nervous and for me it doesn't work as well, the blade doesn't cut cleanly because of the weave underneath.

 

[sailsman63]

Looking awesome.

Nick Shade's book on some of his Kayak designs was one of the inspirations that got me started on the accent patterns that I embed in the bottom of my hulls.

stripperguy How well does the rough interior cloth work out for you? My last build, I went with a sort of 'half fill' - I did use some extra resin to begin filling the weave, but left it with some texture. Not sure I like the results. Foot traffic seems to be really rough on the high spots, and I've actually had river sand get stuck in the weave.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Weight is why I've built two Kevlars. And They are lighter. I'm on my first Carbon/Kevlar now.

​ My strippers are heavier than I'd like, for sure !
The extra weight is due to trim weight, and 1/4" thick strips.

​ Most of my portage distances are 50-100', on level ground, around here, it's not until I trip the BWCA that they exceed that.

​ On a side note, a good friend built a 17' tandem stripper, that weighed less than 50#. The hull cracked open enough to require duct tape, and careful paddling to get him out of the BWCA. Weight in the right place is not always bad.


​ Jim

 

[stripperguy]

Looking awesome.

Nick Shade's book on some of his Kayak designs was one of the inspirations that got me started on the accent patterns that I embed in the bottom of my hulls.

stripperguy How well does the rough interior cloth work out for you? My last build, I went with a sort of 'half fill' - I did use some extra resin to begin filling the weave, but left it with some texture. Not sure I like the results. Foot traffic seems to be really rough on the high spots, and I've actually had river sand get stuck in the weave.

sailsman,
I much prefer the weave exposed...it it fully saturated and I haven't yet had a problem with water intrusion. My oldest hull is now about 25 years old, no noticeable wear inside the hull at all. BTW, that oldest one is 18 ft and weighs 41 lbs.

Weight is why I've built two Kevlars. And They are lighter. I'm on my first Carbon/Kevlar now.

​ My strippers are heavier than I'd like, for sure !
The extra weight is due to trim weight, and 1/4" thick strips.

​ Most of my portage distances are 50-100', on level ground, around here, it's not until I trip the BWCA that they exceed that.

​ On a side note, a good friend built a 17' tandem stripper, that weighed less than 50#. The hull cracked open enough to require duct tape, and careful paddling to get him out of the BWCA. Weight in the right place is not always bad.


​ Jim

Jim,
I had a 17 ft tandem that weighed 38 lbs...it lasted for 28 years until it was wrapped on rocks in Round Lake Stream. It had its share of wear throughs at the stems, and a puncture above waterline when I dropped it on a spruce stump. Hull geometry goes a long way to increase stiffness, and elegant use of fiberglass (or kevlar or carbon) can do the rest. Of course, my boats rarely see more than class II water.

And I occasionally carry up to 5 miles, often carry 2 miles at a time, so the weight is an important factor for me.

 

[wysedav]

I just weighed it, I'm at 27# not too bad. What SG said about the hull shape effecting stiffness is so true. I bet I could paddle this now without gunwales!

 

[Jim Dodd]

I had a 17 ft tandem that weighed 38 lbs...it lasted for 28 years until it was wrapped on rocks in Round Lake Stream. It had its share of wear throughs at the stems, and a puncture above waterline when I dropped it on a spruce stump. Hull geometry goes a long way to increase stiffness, and elegant use of fiberglass (or kevlar or carbon) can do the rest. Of course, my boats rarely see more than class II water.

And I occasionally carry up to 5 miles, often carry 2 miles at a time, so the weight is an important factor for me.

That is light ! It rivals factory Kevlars. How a hull is treated, is a major factor !

​ My record portage was one mile. What a Dad will do to get his kids to the BWCA !
It was with a Outfitter rental, Ultralight Alumicraft, 18.5'. Must have weighed 80+#. It had those aluminum portage yokes, that when flipped over, they turned into a third seat. Brutal to say the least !

​ Now days, I look for routes with a lot shorter portages !! So weight is a limiting factor, at 66 yrs old !

Nice builds by the way Stripperguy !

​Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

I just weighed it, I'm at 27# not too bad. What SG said about the hull shape effecting stiffness is so true. I bet I could paddle this now without gunwales!

​ OH ! We'll want a full report, when you do put that beauty to water !
I've eyeballed that design for a while.

​Jim

 

[wysedav]

I started fitting some float tanks for the ends, should I drills vent holes to equalize the pressure in the tank?

 

[stripperguy]

If you're concerned about the loads developed from changing pressure/temperature of the trapped air, don't be.
If you do a quick calculation you'll see the potential loads are inconsequential.

I prefer fully sealed chambers, mostly for the added flotation. It really helps recovery from a swamping by floating higher and emptying more thoroughly.
I also like big, stripped decks, glassed on both sides. Light weight, plenty strong, and a great platform for stepping when launching/landing and traversing beaver dams.
I know some builders like to add deck hatches and use the sealed space to keep valuables dry and secure.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I used to drill 5/8" holes in my tanks, near the keel. Mostly for inspection. I would reinforce the back side, before installing the paddle shaped tank, where I planned to drill.
Then I used a bilge plug. The kind that expands, when you flip the lever. To plug the hull This works great. Especially if you are worried about water entering the tank.

​ Now days I omit this step. Time will tell if it was right or wrong, But so far, no problems. I do take great care in sealing these tanks.

​ Like Stripperguy, I don't worry about changing air pressure. Commercial builders do use a vent, or Burp plug !

Many ways to skin this cat !

Jim

 

[wysedav]

No Title

Haven't posted in a while but I've made progress. Finished the float tanks no vent yet (still debating internally). I get 1.5psi swings with a 50degree swing. Seems like you could easily see that going from hot sun to cool water. There is a fair amount of surface on the hull side so it could generate some significant loads. I just picked up two 5/4x 6 x 16' cypress boards which I'm going to use for my gunwales.

 

[stripperguy]

Never heard of using Cypress on a canoe...
Is it hard? Soft? Heavy or light? I guess I should just go look it up, but I've been slacking all day, no reason to get ambitious now!

As for the float tanks, take the time to calculate the expected loads. You may be surprised how little stress will be developed.

 

[wysedav]

No Title

Cypress is about 50% heavier and 50%more dent resistant than wrc as well as naturally rot resistant This hull seems really stiff compared to the last canoe so I'm going light on the gunwales. I was thinking about going more traditional scuppered style with seat hanging. Seems like a lot of extra weight for not much gain. Ijust cut and installed one in wale 1/2"X1" x 15' weighs 1.45lbs. Gotta say I'm really grateful to have a source of reclaimed wood. The stock I'm using is a full 1x6x16'. Clear vertical grain basically no run out.

 

[wysedav]

No Title

Just got gunwales epoxied on. Checked the weight 32# seems a little off I think it was my technique I'm using a pulley for the lift. I'm guessing it's really about 34#. Anyways here is a picture.

The cypress really smells when cutting. It was reclaimed from pickle barrels supposedly.

 

[Mihun09]

Love the dark wood! It will be better on cool sunny days, it will keep you warm.