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Lost paddler found

I was with you Memequay, up until you stepped onto the slippery slope of extra billing for emergency extractions. I agree that there are some dumb arses out there, but distinguishing between a mistake and a dumb decision should not define whether we subsidize SAR or not. My niece works in the big city, providing first response medical care. Our system provides it whether you’ve suffered a heart attack or gotten drunk and fallen off a curb. I’d love to play the blame game with these dumb arses, but I’m not sure where to draw the line.
 
I agree Brad, it is a slippery slope, but do you not pay for ambulance services where you live? We do. I'm not thinking that they should pay for their medical care, if they are Canadian citizens. We are all entitled to that. To date, any nationality in the world that happens to be in the wilderness in Canada and activates an emergency device can get a free ride out. I think there should be a good reason for that. Not a broken paddle. It should be a life threatening situation.

I think it was on solotripping where we had quite a spirited conversation about this topic. There are some of us who believe that with continued abuse of the emergency services, soon everyone will be paying for wilderness extraction, or at the least, we will be forced to buy insurance that would pay for it. It's a leaner, meaner world. I'm proud of the fact that Canada is so generous with its SAR's crews. I just hope that it continues to be that way, but I have my doubts that it will.
 
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I have a most radical suggestion: What say we wait until we know more about just what happened to the guy and why he did what he did before we continue to criticize him from the comfort of our desk chairs?

Further: It would be nice to know whether our speculations and commentary are on point. So, what say we (i.e., one of us) boil down our critiques and second-guessing into a short list of questions for the guy and submit them when he's able to respond?

Until then: What say we imagine ourselves in his situation and engage a bit of compassion?
 
I'm not sure it's completely about him anymore Gavia. It has started another conversation that i think is worthwhile. Perhaps we should move it to a new thread. What plans do people have for getting out of a tight situation?
 
These are common issues in a lot of places. Out here our volunteer fire and rescue squads respond to house fires, vehicle accidents, etc. and pull people out of caves, rivers and off mountains too.

It's hard to make case by case calls on the radio or on the phone, so pretty much they just go.

The service is extended to all, residents and tourists.

Yet in out of the way places like mine there is sometimes talk about making one's own way and doing it carefully.

The thing is that in my neck of the woods a good part, often the better part, of services and infrastructure are funded by the wealthier parts of the county, state and country.

We never put into to the tax pools what we take out.
Maybe the folks in NYC wonder why we can't even build our own bridges without them paying for most of the expense.
 
Yes, we pay (extra) for ambulance here. I consider that extra billing, seeing as I’m already a taxpayer. I’d hoped my taxes would also cover me for any other emergencies. I agree that someday a first responder may ask me “Umm, sorry about this sir, but do you have this year’s calendar, it’s a beauty? That’ll be $229.50 please. We take Visa. The ride outta here is free of course.”
Someday this scenario may come to be, but it won’t be due to system abusers. It’ll come from pencil pushing politicians mismanaging our hard earned contributions. Smoke and mirrors, and the odd scapegoat will convince us otherwise of course.
 
Gavia, just for the record, it was very difficult terrain where I climbed up hills on my knees sometimes. I also used a staff where possible. But that's not the point.
The point I was making was that he didn't try. Other than shooting his dog on day three because he was hungry, what proactive measures did he take?

Ted
 
Gavia, just for the record, it was very difficult terrain where I climbed up hills on my knees sometimes. I also used a staff where possible. But that's not the point.
The point I was making was that he didn't try. Other than shooting his dog on day three because he was hungry, what proactive measures did he take?

Ted

How do you know what he tried and what he didn't?

I imagine your trek was pretty tough. But I note that you didn't indicate whether you were also carrying anything heavy.

I'll just register my objection to second-guessing (not picking on you individually), especially when none of us knows what really happened, and then step back from the conversation.
 
Not that i want to reference that "other" canoe site, but there was a good conversation there quite a few years ago about an American who used his beacon twice in one week for non-life threatening situations. There is also some interesting info on what some States charge for emergency extraction.

http://www.myccr.com/phpBB3_PROD/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7042

Brad - I would like to keep to the spirit of offering everyone the service as it stands. I would be interested to see if there are any stats out there that document mis-use of SAR service because of these new devices. I'm hoping that the incidents are few and far between, and merely a mistaken assumption on my part.
 
One summer afternoon as I was driving home from work, I came across 3 cyclists in trouble. They’d had a crash, and one of them was clearly concussed. His helmet was smashed and I could see bone through his road rashes. I put a shirt under his head, covered him with my jacket and started to give him water. I was worried about concussion and shock. It’s only when I whipped out my cell phone to call 911 that his buddies “helped”. They insisted they/he/his family wouldn’t want to pay for an ambulance, when his Mom could be called for a ride instead! “Don’t they cost $100 mister?” I said an ambulance could offer aid immediately and during transport, as well as waiting in line at the emergency (anyone seen them lately?) whereas his Mom would be little more than a long taxi ride to the hospital. I thought it was an emergency. They clearly didn’t agree. They talked me out of it, and thereby saved themselves and the taxpayer $$. I regret it, but maybe I was over reacting. The concussion thing alarmed me though. Slamming and sliding down pavement can be a small deal or worse. I’m not a doc.
You do make a good point about the broken paddle thing Memequay. I have no doubt there are abusers of the system. My point is who draws the line between $$ well spent, and $$ wasted, and where is that line?
Sadly, I’ve had to call on a few paramedics over the past few years. I also have two nieces who are employed as such (one military, one civilian). I’ve yet to speak to any who didn’t act dedicated and professional.
The twerp with the broken paddle deserved it also, even if he didn’t earn it.
PS I'm not fired up over this, everything's cool. I'm just kicking this topic around and wondering what I can learn from it.
 
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You're right Brad, I now recall having a conversation with a former student of mine who is SAR tech on a helicopter. She's also a canoeist. I described the paddle situation to her, and she laughed and said "well, he thought he was in trouble, we don't mind". I guess what I would like to see is for individuals to explore fully their own resources before calling in the big guns. And your money analogy with the ambulance is quite telling.....sounds like they made the wrong decision over a measly hundred bucks.
 
Don't yet know the whole story and likely will never know the actual truth of what happened out there.

He had a lot of time to concoct a good story and just needs to recover to work out the book and movie rights.
 
Well, the Cleveland Plain Dealer won't say much to my phone, so I can't get far with the link about the US stats, etc.

But outrageous abuses likely are rare, which is why we hear about them.

Some years ago the mountaineering crowd was outraged by incidents. Maybe the intro of the technology caused an initial flurry.

Haven't heard much lately in that sport or others. But maybe
I'm just not aware.

I suspect that at least some of the state laws were passed during times of budget difficulties and political pressure and in the aftermath of high profile incidents. Not so much in response to the number of abuses.

In any case , does any community with a recreaction and tourism industry want to be known as one that will demand a credit check before they scoop you up or will sue you before you leave the state or country?

Around here we get plenty of visitors, and some get into trouble. But they are few compared to the number of locals who do.

Because there's so much federal land around, as often as not it's the feds who pull you out.

My neighbor is US Park Service swift water rescue.
He says that most of the drownings and rescues are not in the big visitor WW community but among the local fishermen who wade these infamously treacherous streams and can't swim and refuse to wear PFDS.

Bill cheerfully yanks them all out. His service and his pay are free to this community. They are paid for by the taxpayers of CA, CT, FL and etc. And they add a nice polish to our growing recreation and tourism industry, which brings in ever more outside $$$., replacing the boom and bust of timber.
 
I know this thread has moved on to bigger issues of SAR billing, but this three day thing keeps rearing its head, and is bugging me. For example:

. Other than shooting his dog on day three because he was hungry, what proactive measures did he take?

Just for the record, only unreliable British tabloids reported him killing his dog on day three. From the local article in La Frontiere (the one I translated) it seems that he killed his dog in October, after more than two months had passed.

re: proactivity La Frontiere (Rouyn-Norands) reports that he made five attempts to descend the river after his accident. Sounds fairly proactive to me.

Please return to the debate about SAR billing, already in progress...;)
 
As for the lateness of the season, he planned a 2 month trip leaving July 17, so mid-September is not unreasonable to be out there.


My reasoning for calling it a late start was the fact that he needed to be in the area of James Bay at the end of his trip. (Mid Sept)
I have never been in the area but from what I have read, it's an unforgiving location where head winds and being stranded on mud flats for 8 hours can be a real problem situation. After 2 months out there, those are some low average temps to deal with (Sept 15-4) The weather is affected by James Bay far upstream on an inland river.
Here are some average temps for the area, maybe a June 17th start with a planned mid August end of trip would have prevented being in the area well into October.

July- High 22- low 9 (72-47)
Aug 21-8 (69-46)
Sept 15-4 (58-39)
Oct 8- -1 (46-31)
 
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