I thought I knew something about this topic until this summer. Now I am ready to listen to some advice. It is becoming obvious why there are so many solo paddlers around here. What do you look for in potential crew members?
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How do you chose a crew for longer canoe trips?
- Thread starter ppine
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I'd certainly choose to eliminate the dog. After that, there's nothing to choose.
Just freedom, freedom, freedom. Go when you want. Go where you want. Do what you want. Be responsible only to and for yourself.
No noise. No annoying chatter. No drunks. No experts. No incompetents. No chef wannabees. No slobs. No masters. No slaves. No quibbles. No quarrels. No disturbances of the matrix, the force, the karma, the alpha waves, the endorphins, or the soul.
Just freedom, freedom, freedom. Go when you want. Go where you want. Do what you want. Be responsible only to and for yourself.
No noise. No annoying chatter. No drunks. No experts. No incompetents. No chef wannabees. No slobs. No masters. No slaves. No quibbles. No quarrels. No disturbances of the matrix, the force, the karma, the alpha waves, the endorphins, or the soul.
I have one guy I go with regularly, we work together pretty well, we could probably spend the whole summer canoeing together. It's the nature of the trip that determines the company. I have to do a three day drunk trip with my wife and her friends every summer, I know paddling is secondary, we just have fun. Serious trips I either do solo or with proven partners. However, I will take anyone if they have a sense of humour and are not complainers.
Internet paddling hook ups can be sketchy. I've had some good experiences and I've had some weird ones.
Internet paddling hook ups can be sketchy. I've had some good experiences and I've had some weird ones.
My longer trips are now with my brother and kids. We all seem to find our separate duties and do them. We respect each others opinion and take directions from whoever has taken on the particular duty. I usually cook the meals other than that it seems each trip the duties shift. The only problems we have is that I forget I'm 67 and get talked into longer days than I would prefer.
I usually go on short trips with my wife, which can be more stressful. She worries that we're going to get lost, that I will forget where I park our vehicle, that I might kickoff and leave her stranded "then what would I do". But usually by the second day she relaxes.
I go on short trips with one of my sons and grandson and there's lots of swimming fishing and hiking. I find it fun to watch or take a nap on these trips.
Planning ahead , not pushing too hard, and explaining any difficulties that might be encountered goes a long way in having a good trip.
I have taken trips with many other guys with different personalities and I have never had any conflict. Several things I remember, having one foot on a ledge and one foot in a canoe and having someone push the canoe away from shore, having my favorite paddle taken by someone and the paddle left weighing twice as much, someone bringing an alarm clock, setting it for 3AM and leaving it in my tent, meeting someone on the first carry of a brutal portage as they're returning from their first trip (where they were just scouting it) and having them say you're almost there when I haven't even gone half way, and I can go on and on. But we always had a laugh and I dished it out just as well.
I think in every case we had fun because of good planning and just accepting the differences we all have.
I usually go on short trips with my wife, which can be more stressful. She worries that we're going to get lost, that I will forget where I park our vehicle, that I might kickoff and leave her stranded "then what would I do". But usually by the second day she relaxes.
I go on short trips with one of my sons and grandson and there's lots of swimming fishing and hiking. I find it fun to watch or take a nap on these trips.
Planning ahead , not pushing too hard, and explaining any difficulties that might be encountered goes a long way in having a good trip.
I have taken trips with many other guys with different personalities and I have never had any conflict. Several things I remember, having one foot on a ledge and one foot in a canoe and having someone push the canoe away from shore, having my favorite paddle taken by someone and the paddle left weighing twice as much, someone bringing an alarm clock, setting it for 3AM and leaving it in my tent, meeting someone on the first carry of a brutal portage as they're returning from their first trip (where they were just scouting it) and having them say you're almost there when I haven't even gone half way, and I can go on and on. But we always had a laugh and I dished it out just as well.
I think in every case we had fun because of good planning and just accepting the differences we all have.
And you are setting up the Marshal Lake Loop for us sketchy internet types.
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There is a fellow at work that goes out and trips a lot every Summer. We talk canoeing all the time, he is 20 years younger and makes more than I do but still drives a Coleman canoe. I keep urging him to upgrade. He usually doesn't do anything like the expeditions we take on and at the moment there is a plan in place for him to join us for a week next June. That could either be good or bad. He seems an odd duck at times, but I'm nuts so it might work out anyway.
I'm not sure I would trip with just anyone, I would like to know them a bit first, just for compatibility issues. Where we go isn't for everyone. It may seem tame to many, but others look at me and scratch their heads and wonder why I would "work" on my vacation. The portages is usually where we lose people's interest.
Sounds good Glenn. Maybe you and I could plan next year to take separate solo trips in separate states on separate dates together. Dave
I think the first thing is to not try new tripping partners on a long trip. At least go out for a weekend to see if you are compatible. After that everyone has to agree on the goals for the trip. Daily mileage or hours on the water, rest days, stopping at great fishing holes, photo ops, type of cooking or lack of cooking and type of portages to be attempted are some of the things that have to be agreed upon before hitting the water. That is why solo trips were invented, all that stuff does not need to be clarified. Even with an agreed upon plan everyone has to be willing to bend a little or a lot depending on what comes up. New partners may have thought they were ready for the rigors of a canoe trip and can't do the planned pace, are you willing to change the plan so they can enjoy the trip? The question was about new partners but it will come down to how we handle our trip being altered for the sake of others.
Thanks for the responses. Everyone has had to contend with this subject over the years. My last trip was in Oregon and I had people coming from out of town, some old friends from Colorado, people from Oregon, and some from my neck of the woods in Nevada. Logistically it was challenging and we had 8 signed up in 5 boats. I carefully chose people that I have known for a long time. People that I have paddled with in places like the BWCA, floated the Grand Canyon and been on pack trips with. Now that everyone is around 60, except for the two kids an 18 and a 20 yo, they do not take direction. Stay together, don't leave yet, and go river right fell on deaf ears. None of that stuff matter that much, but we had two swimmers at a really bad spot with several strainers at the bottom of a chute\. After everyone was back on dry land I could not make them see how dangerous that spot was. Now I am looking for a solo canoe. Thanks for helping me see the light.
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That's well put. I was trying to come up with something along those lines but gave up. I imagine the biggest reason I solo is because of me, not "them."
Alan
I am not closing in on 60 as fast as you are!
I don't function well under duress. I am stubborn and like things my way (which doesn't happen much). I don't own a chainsaw but do have the kevlar tandem. I get cold and stay cold on a cold day. You just might need someone new to take tripping who is in your age bracket.
This thread is interesting. Some frustrating experiences dealing with people. I see these group trips as like minded trippers but with conflicting goals. I guess it comes down to compatibility and compromise. It's been years since I tripped with anyone other than family. I first started going out on short 4 day trips with friends. There were never any problems. Our numbers did shrink over time. So too did my enthusiasm. As much as I loved my friends, the annual autumn trip became less enjoyable. Finally after agonizing over this decision, on the last port on the last day one cold wet weekend I announced that it was my last trip. I felt like a jerk. The fact was though, I could see my best friend also looked pretty miserable, but I quite frankly wanted to spend that annual holiday with my wife and kids instead. That's when tripping with my buddies ended, and tripping with my wife and kids began. I still feel like a jerk these many years later. I'd love to go on a trip with that old best friend if we could, though he lives many miles away. I'm not so sure about reviving a bigger buddy group trip though.
A couple of close friends have asked if we'd take them out for an easy trip. As much as we love them, I'm having reservations, and so I've always changed the topic of conversation when they've raised it. She has the necessary laid back attitude towards a canoe trip, even a short one- lots of compatibility and compromise there. He on the other hand craves excitement and fun. Neither have paddling experience. None whatsoever. I'm not sure how eager I am to steer them across a lake or two, coax them across a portage or two. I'm in no mood to keep an adult entertained, because he seems to get bored easily. I think most people may be compatible provided they are willing to compromise without complaint. He is not so good at complaint free compromise, and so as much as I'd love to introduce them to our love of canoe camping, it might be best to maintain our friendship by not doing the trip. I'm sociable, but value quiet places, quiet spaces.
A couple of close friends have asked if we'd take them out for an easy trip. As much as we love them, I'm having reservations, and so I've always changed the topic of conversation when they've raised it. She has the necessary laid back attitude towards a canoe trip, even a short one- lots of compatibility and compromise there. He on the other hand craves excitement and fun. Neither have paddling experience. None whatsoever. I'm not sure how eager I am to steer them across a lake or two, coax them across a portage or two. I'm in no mood to keep an adult entertained, because he seems to get bored easily. I think most people may be compatible provided they are willing to compromise without complaint. He is not so good at complaint free compromise, and so as much as I'd love to introduce them to our love of canoe camping, it might be best to maintain our friendship by not doing the trip. I'm sociable, but value quiet places, quiet spaces.
When I was young, I had to abide by the group rules:
Father and uncles made the rules, all kids followed. This included marathon fishing with NO bathroom breaks. Taking over the limit, hunting out of season.
They also had no problems to cut live trees (a blatant violation of the ADK guidelines). Eventually, I flat out refused to go, even though it was part of my "duty" to put food on the table.
As an adult, I assembled my own group...we usually agreed on basic philosophies, but often differed on details. We don't urinate in the water, and we obey all regulations.
Some didn't care for the grueling, trail less carries, some didn't care for the distances, some didn't care for the destinations.
So what!! Those that wanted a particular experience came along, others, no. I would purposely arrange trips of varying effort, destination and length to mix the group.
When a newbie was added, the core group would carefully evaluate them, maybe they'll be invited again, maybe not.
Most of our trips are 4 days or less. We can all tolerate the most divergent personalities for a few days. If it works out, great, if not, well, we all learn something about each other.
We have only a few rules:
No whining
No drugs
No cell phones
I relish the opportunity to introduce paddling and camping and hiking and skiing and sailing to those that have never gotten the chance to enjoy those activities. Who knows, those newbies (young and old) may just discover a life long vocation!
Father and uncles made the rules, all kids followed. This included marathon fishing with NO bathroom breaks. Taking over the limit, hunting out of season.
They also had no problems to cut live trees (a blatant violation of the ADK guidelines). Eventually, I flat out refused to go, even though it was part of my "duty" to put food on the table.
As an adult, I assembled my own group...we usually agreed on basic philosophies, but often differed on details. We don't urinate in the water, and we obey all regulations.
Some didn't care for the grueling, trail less carries, some didn't care for the distances, some didn't care for the destinations.
So what!! Those that wanted a particular experience came along, others, no. I would purposely arrange trips of varying effort, destination and length to mix the group.
When a newbie was added, the core group would carefully evaluate them, maybe they'll be invited again, maybe not.
Most of our trips are 4 days or less. We can all tolerate the most divergent personalities for a few days. If it works out, great, if not, well, we all learn something about each other.
We have only a few rules:
No whining
No drugs
No cell phones
I relish the opportunity to introduce paddling and camping and hiking and skiing and sailing to those that have never gotten the chance to enjoy those activities. Who knows, those newbies (young and old) may just discover a life long vocation!
When I was younger taking people on canoe trips always seemed like some sort of bonding. Now people seem set in their ways and get tweaked by lots of things. My best paddling partner is my brother. I am hoping to get my other brother out from Chicago with my nephew next summer. Hunting and paddling with family is some of the best time outdoors.
One of the guys I invited on the last trip is now a much closer friend after spending 9 days together.
I had an 18 yo kid in the bow of my boat, but we had no problems. He was respectful, athletic and wanted to learn.
By about the fourth day he could paddle and started to learn to read water. My friend's 20 yo had lots of attitude. He was the strongest person on the trip but did not want to do anything. He started to get it at the end. We had one lady on the trip in a kayak and she makes her own rules and I will not paddle with her again.
A solo river trip is logistically challenging and not all that safe. I am thinking about some solo lake travel with my trusty dog, Ruby Begonia.
One of the guys I invited on the last trip is now a much closer friend after spending 9 days together.
I had an 18 yo kid in the bow of my boat, but we had no problems. He was respectful, athletic and wanted to learn.
By about the fourth day he could paddle and started to learn to read water. My friend's 20 yo had lots of attitude. He was the strongest person on the trip but did not want to do anything. He started to get it at the end. We had one lady on the trip in a kayak and she makes her own rules and I will not paddle with her again.
A solo river trip is logistically challenging and not all that safe. I am thinking about some solo lake travel with my trusty dog, Ruby Begonia.
I don't do much in the way of tripping with others... I did a "first time ever" trip with my wife of almost 28 years this past summer... She knows I have experience in the woods, asked for and listened to my advice before we went, and had such a good time during 4 days of rain that I think I have a new partner to replace my daughter as tripping companion.
One of my best trip partners is my daughter... we've been doing woods stuff since she was about 9 months old... Since I've have taught her what I know, I can't complain about her... all in all, she's good, pleasant company and fun to have around. My only complaint is that I'm not an expert paddler, and therefore I couldn't teach her bow and stern duties... we have "our way", which works, but it's not all the efficient... she's also only as big as she is, and will never match me in strength or endurance until I get a lot older, which sometimes caused friction... I eventually learned to relax. We did one trip to the St Regis area a few years ago, when she turned 16, where I put her in her own rented PBW Spitfire... she was a much better tandem partner after that... seems to pull her own weight (literally) a bit more now.
My other good tripping partner is my cousin... we're both pretty laid back about schedules, neither of us is fussy about what we eat, and we were in boy scouts together for a long time, sharing tents on troop weekend trips as well as during summer camp. We also did a lot of family trips together outside scouts (me and my brother with him and his brothers and my uncle, who was also our scoutmaster.) Dude is "a good man in the woods". He is much stronger than I am (carpenter vs office puke) but caters to my pace. His only 'flaw' is a tendency toward extra baggage, especially on canoe trips... given the difference in strength, I don't mind, as he carries the extra weight (e.g., he uses a 4-man Eureka Timberline for himself and his dog, on a queen-sized air mattress with two zipped-together sleeping bags.) I'm more of a planner (probably just the difference in jobs we've held over the years), and he just asks questions instead of pointing out my mistakes... very tactful.
I have done trips with a brother and brother in law, and will take one of them again.
As partners, I would look first for people who genuinely love the outdoors and have being outdoors doing things as a hobby. People who like to watch sports, especially football, on TV are immediately suspect... they should be outside on weekends. Hockey people are ok. I'd look for folks who share their photos and don't mention how cold, wet, bug-bitten, or tired they were. Folks who have already proven themselves in solo tripping (though those folks tend to be quiet and might not appreciate my chatter... gotta watch that, or they won't go with me again.) Folks who own good gear, that's dirty/used (shows commitment to the outdoors, and the ability to use it). I'd also look at temperance, character, physical condition, education, ability to hold a conversation, patience, degree of self control and not being a control freak... Oh, and not a picky eater.
As mentioned, I know why a lot of us go solo.
One of my best trip partners is my daughter... we've been doing woods stuff since she was about 9 months old... Since I've have taught her what I know, I can't complain about her... all in all, she's good, pleasant company and fun to have around. My only complaint is that I'm not an expert paddler, and therefore I couldn't teach her bow and stern duties... we have "our way", which works, but it's not all the efficient... she's also only as big as she is, and will never match me in strength or endurance until I get a lot older, which sometimes caused friction... I eventually learned to relax. We did one trip to the St Regis area a few years ago, when she turned 16, where I put her in her own rented PBW Spitfire... she was a much better tandem partner after that... seems to pull her own weight (literally) a bit more now.
My other good tripping partner is my cousin... we're both pretty laid back about schedules, neither of us is fussy about what we eat, and we were in boy scouts together for a long time, sharing tents on troop weekend trips as well as during summer camp. We also did a lot of family trips together outside scouts (me and my brother with him and his brothers and my uncle, who was also our scoutmaster.) Dude is "a good man in the woods". He is much stronger than I am (carpenter vs office puke) but caters to my pace. His only 'flaw' is a tendency toward extra baggage, especially on canoe trips... given the difference in strength, I don't mind, as he carries the extra weight (e.g., he uses a 4-man Eureka Timberline for himself and his dog, on a queen-sized air mattress with two zipped-together sleeping bags.) I'm more of a planner (probably just the difference in jobs we've held over the years), and he just asks questions instead of pointing out my mistakes... very tactful.
I have done trips with a brother and brother in law, and will take one of them again.
As partners, I would look first for people who genuinely love the outdoors and have being outdoors doing things as a hobby. People who like to watch sports, especially football, on TV are immediately suspect... they should be outside on weekends. Hockey people are ok. I'd look for folks who share their photos and don't mention how cold, wet, bug-bitten, or tired they were. Folks who have already proven themselves in solo tripping (though those folks tend to be quiet and might not appreciate my chatter... gotta watch that, or they won't go with me again.) Folks who own good gear, that's dirty/used (shows commitment to the outdoors, and the ability to use it). I'd also look at temperance, character, physical condition, education, ability to hold a conversation, patience, degree of self control and not being a control freak... Oh, and not a picky eater.
As mentioned, I know why a lot of us go solo.
We had a group of 6 guys (3 canoes) once. One of the paddlers was immediately nick named "Fitznstarts" because that's how he paddled. Go, go, go for about ten minutes, and then nothing. Then on again for another five, then nothing. He was very frustrating to say the least. I pawned him off on one of the other guys as soon as we hit the portage.
Coincidentally, we went exploring one afternoon, and were walking along a dry creek bed. He slipped on a rock and broke his baby toe. Some would say that was payback...I just think he belongs in the city
Coincidentally, we went exploring one afternoon, and were walking along a dry creek bed. He slipped on a rock and broke his baby toe. Some would say that was payback...I just think he belongs in the city
For now, most of my trips include others, whether I paddle solo or tandem. Over the years I have had a wide variety of companions. and have never had much issue with any of them. There is a core of about 25 of us who have regularly done backcountry travel of all sorts since our teens, as well as other friends of everyone that has come on various trips.
Firstly, we have to remember that we each have to do our part to make it work with others. Sometimes it is not just their fault there are issues.
We have just one rule.....Enjoy yourself, and have fun!.
Heck, that is a rule for myself when going solo too.
Of course, that is a fairly broad rule, and encompasses further definition, like no complaining, do your part of camp duties, and just plain old have fun. All common sense stuff.
I have never really had any issue with anyone that comes along. If new to tripping with us, they soon learn that doing their part to make it a successful trip is required. Even when tripping with my wife, confrontational issues that we may have at home, are completely eliminated.
For those newer to canoe tripping, the rules are set out from the start, which are basically that everyone must chip in, and do their part with camp duties. We usually split breakfast and supper meals up, having a couple people plan and cook each meal. Of course we pitch in to help as needed, under their direction.
On a trip this past fall, my brother-in-law came out from New Jersey just for the trip, with a total of 6 paddlers. He is 60, and had not done anything like this since he was a teen. He is a stock broker, and has lived the past 40 years in a fast paced, highly populated environment. But, he listened, did what he needed to, and had fun. He made an interesting comment after watching me do what comes natural to me with all camp and tripping duties, from starting fires, erecting tarps, cooking great meals, paddle technique, etc, and said "I would certainly want you in my foxhole".
Firstly, we have to remember that we each have to do our part to make it work with others. Sometimes it is not just their fault there are issues.
We have just one rule.....Enjoy yourself, and have fun!.
Heck, that is a rule for myself when going solo too.
Of course, that is a fairly broad rule, and encompasses further definition, like no complaining, do your part of camp duties, and just plain old have fun. All common sense stuff.
I have never really had any issue with anyone that comes along. If new to tripping with us, they soon learn that doing their part to make it a successful trip is required. Even when tripping with my wife, confrontational issues that we may have at home, are completely eliminated.
For those newer to canoe tripping, the rules are set out from the start, which are basically that everyone must chip in, and do their part with camp duties. We usually split breakfast and supper meals up, having a couple people plan and cook each meal. Of course we pitch in to help as needed, under their direction.
On a trip this past fall, my brother-in-law came out from New Jersey just for the trip, with a total of 6 paddlers. He is 60, and had not done anything like this since he was a teen. He is a stock broker, and has lived the past 40 years in a fast paced, highly populated environment. But, he listened, did what he needed to, and had fun. He made an interesting comment after watching me do what comes natural to me with all camp and tripping duties, from starting fires, erecting tarps, cooking great meals, paddle technique, etc, and said "I would certainly want you in my foxhole".
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I've been running group trips for over 20 years, with ages running from 8 to 70 and groups from 4 to 38 people. What I find works is a "shakedown weekend" at a local conservation area, where we pack in, set up camp, do lots of paddling, sort out who works best with each other and pair them up and paddle some more, cook together, and pair up for sleeping partners. By the second day everyone knows what's expected and is happy with their partners. then it's off to the pub or someone's home for a planning session, and to do a final ironing out of any issues.
When we actually go on the trip everyone knows what's expected and is already comfortable with their partner, and newbies have an idea of what gear works, and what doesn't. If a conflict does arrive, and they can't sort it out, we'll shift things around to suit the group.
When we actually go on the trip everyone knows what's expected and is already comfortable with their partner, and newbies have an idea of what gear works, and what doesn't. If a conflict does arrive, and they can't sort it out, we'll shift things around to suit the group.
