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composite beaver tail

Matt Hopkinson

Matt Hopkinson

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I really like my beaver tail paddle. It would be better if it were lighter though. I was thinking about:
1. making a 2 piece mold from one
2. laying cloth in each side and trimming
3. filling the innards with something light, and
4. mating the two pieces together

Am I on the right track or is there a better way?
 
I think I'd make one from two or three separate components, shaft, grip, and blade.

The blade I'd make from foam and then cover with carbon.

I'd make the shaft a hollow carbon tube using bi-directional carbon sleeve with heat shrink over top to give you a really nice finish without sanding or top coating. These are both available from Soller composites.

Using something like an aluminum tube waxed and treated with mold release as a mandrel is an easy way to make round carbon shafts. But paddle shafts feel nicer if they're slightly oval. I've been unable to find something like this to use as a mandrel to make carbon tubes. I suppose you could shape a piece of foam and then cover it with carbon sleeve. Just need to be sure it stays straight while curing.

The grip I'd again make out of foam and cover with carbon. You could also do a solid wood grip since it wouldn't add much weight and weight at the grip end isn't as noticeable.

Another option, depending on how light you want to get, would be to carve a paddle from something lightweight like cedar and then cover it with carbon for strength.

Alan
 
How about taking an existing oval shaft paddle, slice it lengthwise to reduce size and use it as a core for a carbon sleeve. Do the release wax and such. Or quarter it so you reduce overall size the same as the carbon thickness...
 
I've been thinking about making some paddles too. And a carbon ottertail is one of them. The shaft troubles me. Finding an aluminum tapered and ovalized mandrel is one concern. Releasing it is another. I think I'm just going to buy shafts from zre. You can just buy a replacement from them. I think about $85. I'll probably make a wood grip and the blade I will core with a piece of thin birch plywood for model airplanes and then build some foam up on that to taper into the shaft. Carbon over the top, vacuum bagged. You can also make a purely foam core and then dissolve the foam out after the lamination. Gasoline or other petroleum distilates should dissolve the foam without affecting the laminate.
 
Inflatable. Yes. Since you have an existing paddle you want to copy, you could make female molds of it, probably in two pieces. One for the shaft and one for the blade. Then you lay the fabric in, seal it up, and inflate the bladder while pulling epoxy through the vacuum.

Or do it this way. All options are a lot of work though.

https://vimeo.com/65664650

I think I read long ago that Charlie Wilson had a carbon ottertail made for someone. Maybe he can help out.
 
I don't think you will get much out of Charlie this week; we lost a very dear canoe giant friend. There was a carbon ottertail made by Alchemist Canoe called the Myth. ASFAIK, Charlie is not a fan of ottertails.

Balancing a paddle is the big issue.. Not how you make it.. All the masses ought to have their center at the junction of shaft and blade.
 
The shaft troubles me. Finding an aluminum tapered and ovalized mandrel is one concern. Releasing it is another.
Click to expand...

Look at canes. I don't believe I found any that were oval but it was about the only tapered metal shafts I could find when I was scouring the internet last winter. Wait until you see the solid aluminum "personal defense" canes and the goofballs who talk about them on online forums. Thank goodness we're all normal here. :rolleyes:

I don't think getting a release would be too hard, especially with a tapered shaft (non-tapered pulls hard the whole way). I've made a couple carbon tubes in the 3' range using aluminum tubing as a mandrel. One some I wrapped it with plastic before putting on the carbon (inside doesn't have to be smooth). On a couple others I just sanded the tubing up to 1500 grit, waxed it with multiple coats, and spread it with PVA before laying up. When cured I twisted the two shafts in opposite directions until they broke loose. Those were shorter shafts though. Maybe a problem with longer ones? Twisting would be a little harder with oval shafts too.

I've also heard of placing the whole thing in a freezer after the epoxy cures. The aluminum will shrink and make for an easy release. Would be easy to do here in winter, just put it outside.

Either way the heat shrink tubing from Soller is great. Leaves a very nice finish with no fill coats or sanding.

Having a complete two piece female mold would be neat but I'd worry about all the time that would go into making the mold itself. I've made a couple seat molds and it's a lot of work. Much of that is self-inflicted though from rushing through steps and then having to take extra time to fill, sand, fill, sand, and polish.

I think making paddles would be really fun but I've held off because I'm perfectly happy with my Zavs and I have a good collection of them. They're also relatively inexpensive. So for the time being my extra time and money will keep going towards canoes. But if I wanted something that was unavailable it would be a delicious problem.

If someone takes a shot at making their own composite canoe paddles I'll be very interested to follow along and see how it goes.

Alan
 
Mihun09 said:
What do you consider relatively inexpensive?
Click to expand...

I consider them (Zaverals) relatively inexpensive when I look at how much money would go into materials to make my own, how much time I think it would take, what I'd end up with for a final product in comparison to what I can buy commercially, and how many hours I'd have to spend at my actual job to buy one.

That's not to say I'm opposed to spending inordinate amounts of time and money on a project that strikes one's fancy but building paddles isn't quite there for me yet; although I do enjoy thinking about it now and again.

Alan
 
I smell what you're stepping in Alan. It's a lot of work. Easiest thing in my opinion after going through your same thoughts is buy a pre made shaft and make your own blade to suit. Cut the losses on cost and time and make the paddle you want with as much existing tech as you can get your hands on.
 
Muskrat said:
Inflatable. Yes. Since you have an existing paddle you want to copy, you could make female molds of it, probably in two pieces. One for the shaft and one for the blade. Then you lay the fabric in, seal it up, and inflate the bladder while pulling epoxy through the vacuum.

Or do it this way. All options are a lot of work though.

https://vimeo.com/65664650

I think I read long ago that Charlie Wilson had a carbon ottertail made for someone. Maybe he can help out.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'm impress. The amount of time and work going into making all the mold/jigs/cnc programming/foam plug/vacuum bagging/heat curing.... I'm sure it is all worth wile after you have figured it all out...


the final product look great, but I still think Wood Is Good!!


Cheers
 
Alan Gage said:
I consider them (Zaverals) relatively inexpensive when I look at how much money would go into materials to make my own, how much time I think it would take, what I'd end up with for a final product in comparison to what I can buy commercially, and how many hours I'd have to spend at my actual job to buy one.

That's not to say I'm opposed to spending inordinate amounts of time and money on a project that strikes one's fancy but building paddles isn't quite there for me yet; although I do enjoy thinking about it now and again.

Alan
Click to expand...

I haven't yet developed a hankering to make paddles and may never. As it is, I get about $5 an hour for my labour on w/c canoes I restore, but of course I don't do it for a living so that doesn't matter as much as restoring a boat. My wood ottertails are light enough for me and the one carbon paddle we have was the best price, Free.
 
The Canadian version seems to be built by someone with connections to BB. It is blade heavy. Ono offered to build one.
Gearing up to produce them will cost near $10K, and the market is mostly folks who love wood and that tenuous connection with the Voyageurs, the lowest paid transport workers in history, so sales will likely be disappointing. ???
 
I'll stick to wood, I think a well made, with the right wood and construction can be quite light and comfortable to use and also quite durable! Carbon finer is great, but not necessarily durable, and can be quite hard on the joints due to its stiffness!!
 
Canotrouge said:
I'll stick to wood, I think a well made, with the right wood and construction can be quite light and comfortable to use and also quite durable! Carbon finer is great, but not necessarily durable, and can be quite hard on the joints due to its stiffness!!
Click to expand...

Why would one want a flexible blade?
Joint stiffness is NOT a given with a rigid blade. It is a given with poor technique that uses joints instead of muscles.
Carbon fiber uses the energy generated with your back and abs and transmits it all to moving the boat forward or backward or sideways.
Wood blades with kick add an unwanted dimension : up and down. Planted the blade with kick has a vector that pushes the water down rather than back( pulling the boat forward) and on exit flips water up pushing the boat down.

Racers want the most efficient paddle. It isn't wood.

As you age and your joints get more susceptible to arthritis, the material doesnt matter either. What matters greatly is the length of the paddle and the width. Shorter and narrowe rfor older. Thats where ottertails and beavertails have a distinct disadvantage as they are long to start with.

I wonder where this old saw ( I have heard it before) comes from. Probably the same time as the adage " long strokes"( those will hurt you)
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry, but we are not talking bent shaft paddle here, and 2 paddle of the same designs and specs, other than weight and stiffness will react some wha the same in the water( to a degree that no one would be able to notice the difference) As for length, it as a lot to do with joint problem indeed. And last but not least, you assumed that I was talking about a flexible blade... I never said so, stiff blade and somewhat forgiving shaft is what I'm talking about. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not a racer, I can care less about racing bent shaft( and I have the best one made in my basement time 4) For my style of tripping they are not efficient, I did sit and switch for year racing, and I'm done with it!

I think also that OP was clear on the type of paddle he was after, and it wasn't a bent shaft and not a racing paddle.




Anyway, Funny how some time we read what we want to read... I never mention anything about a flexible blade:)
 
Last edited:
Never said anything about a bent shaft. Funny how people read what they want. There are carbon fiber straight shaft paddles too I have a couple of them
And my assertions on flex had not much to do with material really. Some straights have no flex but are wood

Whatever
 
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