I agree that the snowshoe lace or rawhide with varnish is a nice rustic look and bound to be very durable. It breathes well and doesn't hold moisture.
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Cane or webbing?
- Thread starter Robin
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I've built several canoes and two Guideboats and I have a Kevlar Peter Hornbeck Guideboat all had/have caned seats. I always did my own caning by hand with the holes, no pressed cane.The Hornbeck boat caning broke last year just when I needed to put it into service so I wove some webbing around the frame to get me on the water. So here is where it gets interesting, a vet assistant was at the house yesterday and some how it came up that she did caning so I asked how much a hole she charged thinking I might have her do it for me, it's really busy this time of year so why not. Well....... She charges $3.50 per hole! And quote the "price goes way up if there are more than 100 holes". So I just counted the holes in a seat on a canoe I just varnished and there are 74 holes, the good news is it is under 100 the bad news is it is still $259 clams oh and did I forget to mention that there is a $60 material fee, apparently because there is an embargo on cane! So it seems one canoe seat would cost over three hundred dollars to recane. I've got to get out of this area!
Jim
Jim
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Robin,
How did you attach the webbing to the underside (original top-side) of the frames: staples, short brads, short screws, other?
Did you have any trouble getting into the ash? (It looks like the frames are ash. I am wondering how hard it was to staple, nail, or whatever into the ash that has probably been varnished several times over many years.)
You mentioned the original cane was pressed in. I assume that meant it was held inside a groove in the frame with spline. Did you remove that spline?
I have a few old cane seats on my to do list and have been wondering about the same issues.
thanks,
dan
How did you attach the webbing to the underside (original top-side) of the frames: staples, short brads, short screws, other?
Did you have any trouble getting into the ash? (It looks like the frames are ash. I am wondering how hard it was to staple, nail, or whatever into the ash that has probably been varnished several times over many years.)
You mentioned the original cane was pressed in. I assume that meant it was held inside a groove in the frame with spline. Did you remove that spline?
I have a few old cane seats on my to do list and have been wondering about the same issues.
thanks,
dan
Hi Dan,
I cut out the cain with a sharp utility knife, then I took my belt sander with 80 grit and knocked down both sides of the seat. I left the old spline in place, but smoothed it down with the sander came out really smooth and firm. Some 100, the 150 grit with the palm sander smoothed everything down nicely. Then sealed it with a couple of coats of varnish.
I used my electric stapler with 3/8th's ss staples. I shot two staples through the webbing into the ash, then I had to tap them in with a small hammer, that gave me room for two more staples, hammered in also. Sometimes, about 1 or 2 in 10, I layed a staple over with the hammer and had to pull it and shot another staple.
I then pulled the webbing tight across the seat frame and clamped it tight (clamp top and bottom sides of seat), then stapled the small 1" end of the webbing to the inside of the frame.
Don't forget to weave the webbing. I did both seats error free till the last piece...DUH
I cut out the cain with a sharp utility knife, then I took my belt sander with 80 grit and knocked down both sides of the seat. I left the old spline in place, but smoothed it down with the sander came out really smooth and firm. Some 100, the 150 grit with the palm sander smoothed everything down nicely. Then sealed it with a couple of coats of varnish.
I used my electric stapler with 3/8th's ss staples. I shot two staples through the webbing into the ash, then I had to tap them in with a small hammer, that gave me room for two more staples, hammered in also. Sometimes, about 1 or 2 in 10, I layed a staple over with the hammer and had to pull it and shot another staple.
I then pulled the webbing tight across the seat frame and clamped it tight (clamp top and bottom sides of seat), then stapled the small 1" end of the webbing to the inside of the frame.
Don't forget to weave the webbing. I did both seats error free till the last piece...DUH
I'm going to start the webbing project but now read about sanding and varnishing the seats first. Do I really need the expensive varnish for this small project or can I use something easily purchased at Lowes or Home Depot? Thanks. One day I will post my first experience with epoxy, fiberglass and peel ply, it was an experience with a lot of learning. I'm sure this project will be in the opposite end of that spectrum.
You don't need expensive varnish, a small can of spar varnish will do for a couple of seats. I'm not sure what others would recommend though.
I have used paracord for lacing the seat on a drift boat which was very comfortable, breathed well and did not hold moisture. Traditionally on a drift boat the rope seat is only woven in one direction across the beam.
I would never go back to a tractor seat on a canoe like the Wenonahs. Varnished rawhide lacing is really cool. Black webbing is more functional than cane. If I was going to the trouble to lace a seat with webbing it would some unusual colors.
I would never go back to a tractor seat on a canoe like the Wenonahs. Varnished rawhide lacing is really cool. Black webbing is more functional than cane. If I was going to the trouble to lace a seat with webbing it would some unusual colors.
coldfeet I can't remember what thread now, but someone here did a test of several common spar/marine varnishes. The winner for on-wood application was Minwax brand Helmsman Spar Urethane. I've used it myself, and it's easy to handle. It is also pretty cheap. Last can was $16/quart, you might be able to find a pint if you only have the little project. It's available just about anywhere in the US. I get it at Wal-mart, of all places, but also have seen at tru-value chain stores. I would be very surprised if Lowes/HD didn't stock it.
Thank you guys. Was about to purchase the webbing and the cost for shipping was about the same price as the webbing itself. App $15.00 for the webbing and $12 for shipping. Will look around here and check out some boat shops and see what they carry. Thanks again.
ppine Can I take this to mean that you followed the tradition? If not, the next question is for you and memaquay
I've decided to use paracord for the seats on my current build, and will be starting soon. (Waiting for resin to kick off) How do you decide where to break the sections? I can't imagine that one would want to snake >80' of cord through each hole at the beginning... Though, perhaps that is not a big deal? What I don't want, though, is to cut the paracord, then figure out that I cut two short, and have to bury another end. Would hope, e.g. that all the fore-aft runs would be one piece. Am I over-thinking?
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Just as in caning you don't use 80 feet of cane at one time.. For the base diagonals about ten feet is the max easily handled. End at the edge in a hole and peg it so it doesn't slip.. Start a new length. The only thing to avoid is having the length run out in the middle of the seat. For weaving use shorter lengths( after the diagonals). Peg each end when you come to it so it does not slip.. You can make pegs or shave a bit off the pointy ends of golf tees.
G
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Thanks for the reply's, I have the black webbing but was on the fence about using it or cane. I'll go with the webbing. I removed the old cane yesterday, sanded the frames and slider frame, then coated them with varnish.
The old underside of the seat frames will now be the new topside of the seats with this black inch and a half webbing.
Although can looks more aesthetically pleasing, more so in some boats than other, I have used only webbing for years. I think webbing is easier to install, more durable and offers a better color choice. Or a worse color choice; I replaced the busted cane in a friend’s seats with webbing, a plaid-ish mix of Fuchsia and hot pink.
But I use webbing for the very reason illustrated by Robin’s photo above. Mass quantities. Some years ago I saw 1 ½ inch webbing on sale in 100 yard rolls for uber cheap. I bought rolls of black, red and green.
I haven’t done another plaid seat (one was enough), but I think I have a lifetime supply of webbing.
here is a how to on caning.. Substitute paracord if you wish. To me webbing in a wooden boat is just wrong. I spent too much time learning caning at the WCHA assembly but I do really like it for a winter activity
http://www.zapflegacycanoes.com/tips.php
http://www.zapflegacycanoes.com/tips.php
bootlace
is a nice compromise -- tougher and cheaper than cane, better looking than seat-belts -- is not offensive looking in working w/c canoes --
presently i've got three w/c boats -- one with woven cane, one with webbing and one with bootlace...only reason i have the webbing is because it came with...
ian
is a nice compromise -- tougher and cheaper than cane, better looking than seat-belts -- is not offensive looking in working w/c canoes --
presently i've got three w/c boats -- one with woven cane, one with webbing and one with bootlace...only reason i have the webbing is because it came with...
ian
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