Bow line advice needed

[boatstall]

Need some advice, tips, and preferred methods from you Pro's.

I have been boating for most of my 63 years. Have had attached bow and stern lines on almost every vessel. Long story shortened down to "ouch".
Was dragging a 16' tandem across a shallow sand bar, and had a braided nylon bow line snap on me. I landed with a hard thud. Sat there looking at the situation for a few, and decided that I didn't want to risk injury again. Time to replace that bow line.

Recently I have replaced some wire rope winch lines with Amsteel Blue, and also made some Amsteel whoopie slings (7/64") for some hammock suspensions. It is easy to splice, floats, and 1/4" has a minimum strength of 7,700 lbs. I have really enjoyed splicing and making stuff out of this Amsteel.

So I have acquired 80' of olive drab 3/16" (5,400 lbs.), 80' of olive drab 1/4" (7,700 lbs.), and 80' of Blue 5/16" (12,300 lbs.), for various projects.

Before cutting or doing any splicing, I was hoping to get some advice from those of you more experienced than myself.
Because this Amsteel is soft to the hand, extremely strong, and light enough to float, and splice-able, I thought it might keep me from landing on my backside again. But I am willing to change to another material choice if any of you have any better recommendations.

Preferred diameter for bow or stern?
Length's best suited for bow and stern?
Knot attached, or spliced-in loops for larks head-ed in when needed?
Preferred color? If there is an optimum color, I'm not married to the colors I currently have.

Was also thinking maybe an additional one or two 4-6 ft. pieces (or longer?), separate, with large hand grab loops on one end, and shorter loops on the other end to larks-head onto the canoe for pulling straps. 2 for tandem use, or one in each hand.

Bow and stern lines will be for on-water use only, not for transporting tie downs. Got that covered.
I don't do much white water, mostly flat water, though heavy current can be experienced after heavy rainfall.
Lining up or downstream is rare, but does come into play maybe twice a year. But a lot of dragging, and pulling.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[sweeper]

No 'Pro' but I prefer a larger D rope, 3/8" over the 1/4" or smaller. It's a lot easier to hold on to and doesn't slip in your hand as much.

 

[wgiles]

I also prefer a larger diameter for ease of grip. I would prefer 5/16" or larger. All plastic rope degrades in sunlight, but Nylon and Polypropylene are the worst. Samson claims that Amsteel Blue does not degrade very fast and can be left in the sun for some time. It is much stronger than necessary and has little to no stretch, but I see no reason why it can't be used. I would splice an eye on one or both ends rather than trying to tie a knot in it. That would depend on how it attaches to the canoe. Mine is attached to a thwart, so I just pull the rope through the eye and choke the thwart. Mine are double braided polyester and about 15 feet long. I don't use them to line the canoe, just to pull it up or tie it off. The one rope that I wouldn't use is yellow twisted Polypropylene. It floats, but it is rough on your hands and loses strength very fast in the sun. 3/16" Amsteel Blue makes really nice whoopie slings for hammocks.

 

[scoutergriz]

I've been using 3/8 braided poly boating line for decades with no issues. I tie a 25' piece to each end with a woven figure 8 and a stopper and do nothing with the tag end, I DO line and it's perfect for that because it floats, has a fairly stiff hand and is slippery, so it's hard to get it to hang up on snags. If you tie a loop on the tag end there's always the risk of getting your hand caught in it and getting pulled in! I remove it between trips and after a few years I replace it- the old rope gets used for tying brush, ridge lines for tarps, etc. uses where strength isn't critical and I don't really care if it gets frayed or dirty.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Amsteel will work fine though I find it doesn't keep a tidy hot cut end very well. If you back splice the end you have then created a chock that can become wedged between rocks. Probably not a big issue for you but it can happen.

I prefer a bright rope so that it is easier to see when it's floating in the water. Best stuff I have found uses a polypropylene or dyneema core and a polyester outer. This stuff is very hard wearing, strong and floats well. Check out a sailing chandlers for a wide selection of sizes and colours.

 

[boatstall]

No 'Pro' but I prefer a larger D rope, 3/8" over the 1/4" or smaller. It's a lot easier to hold on to and doesn't slip in your hand as much.

Good point on the larger diameter. Thanks

 

[sweeper]

I read 'somewhere' that small D rope slides thorough your hand easier and can could cause rope burns on a strong pull.

Anyone?

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I read 'somewhere' that small D rope slides thorough your hand easier and can could cause rope burns on a strong pull.

Anyone?

Absolutely. Wear gloves.

 

[boatstall]

I also prefer a larger diameter for ease of grip. I would prefer 5/16" or larger. All plastic rope degrades in sunlight, but Nylon and Polypropylene are the worst. Samson claims that Amsteel Blue does not degrade very fast and can be left in the sun for some time. It is much stronger than necessary and has little to no stretch, but I see no reason why it can't be used. I would splice an eye on one or both ends rather than trying to tie a knot in it. That would depend on how it attaches to the canoe. Mine is attached to a thwart, so I just pull the rope through the eye and choke the thwart. Mine are double braided polyester and about 15 feet long. I don't use them to line the canoe, just to pull it up or tie it off. The one rope that I wouldn't use is yellow twisted Polypropylene. It floats, but it is rough on your hands and loses strength very fast in the sun. 3/16" Amsteel Blue makes really nice whoopie slings for hammocks.

Glad to hear about the claim that it does not degrade very fast from UV. I think that was the culprit that put me on my backside.
Realized that I should have replaced the line sooner, but it is such a generic item that had not previously shown any weakening or damage.
I agree about the whoopie slings. Upgraded my Granddaughter's hammock suspension as part of her Christmas. Never would have thought a college kid would have been that excited about whoopies, but hanging seems to be a big deal for her age group.
Thanks

 

[boatstall]

I've been using 3/8 braided poly boating line for decades with no issues. I tie a 25' piece to each end with a woven figure 8 and a stopper and do nothing with the tag end, I DO line and it's perfect for that because it floats, has a fairly stiff hand and is slippery, so it's hard to get it to hang up on snags. If you tie a loop on the tag end there's always the risk of getting your hand caught in it and getting pulled in! I remove it between trips and after a few years I replace it- the old rope gets used for tying brush, ridge lines for tarps, etc. uses where strength isn't critical and I don't really care if it gets frayed or dirty.

Another vote for 3/8". Duly noted.
I understand the loop around the hand risk issue, but rarely do we have enough current to yank us in, but I agree it only takes once. Still undecided about the hand loop, as 99% of the time, I need the pulling power that a loop would assist with.
Thanks

 

[boatstall]

Amsteel will work fine though I find it doesn't keep a tidy hot cut end very well. If you back splice the end you have then created a chock that can become wedged between rocks. Probably not a big issue for you but it can happen.

I prefer a bright rope so that it is easier to see when it's floating in the water. Best stuff I have found uses a polypropylene or dyneema core and a polyester outer. This stuff is very hard wearing, strong and floats well. Check out a sailing chandlers for a wide selection of sizes and colours.

I do like a back splice on the Amsteel, or a spliced loop. Never tried a melted end, but glad to know it can be problematic.

I would have to travel to find a rock. Well, we do have rock revetment on larger rivers like the Red, and the Mississippi, but I don't use a canoe on those. Ships, tugs and barges, and other large vessels can often leave large standing waves 4-6 ft. that put a pucker on me when I'm in my 28' going fishing.

I will check out the dyneema core stuff. Thanks

 

[sweeper]

Absolutely. Wear gloves.

Yes, but most of the time paddling I don't wear gloves and in and in an emergence there may not be time to put them on.

 

[jcavenagh]

You will be fine splicing a loop at each end of a 25' blue line. Up north I think the regs require a 25' floating painter at each end. You Canadians can backstop me on that...

 

[boatstall]

Absolutely. Wear gloves.

No problem with gloves here.
I have been wearing paddling gloves for 30+ years. Cold wet hands in winter are dangerous from an exposure standpoint, and I also like a thin bicycling style for summer. Hand protection, or rather the lack of, can really alter a multi-day trip. Good advice Steve. Thanks

 

[boatstall]

You will be fine splicing a loop at each end of a 25' blue line. Up north I think the regs require a 25' floating painter at each end. You Canadians can backstop me on that...

Thanks, That's about where I'm settling as of now. Loops at each end, and 25' seems to be a favored length.

 

[wgiles]

It is possible that an eye splice on the end of the rope might catch something, but I find them so useful that I almost always put them on my short ropes. Hollow braided rope is easy to splice and three strand twisted rope is not much harder. Double braided rope is more work to splice than I want, so I usually use a follow through figure eight knot in them. The only Dyneema that doesn't seem to want to splice well is Zing-It. A Brummel Eye Splice holds OK, but a Zing-It Whoopie will slip when you release tension.

 

[yellowcanoe]

You will be fine splicing a loop at each end of a 25' blue line. Up north I think the regs require a 25' floating painter at each end. You Canadians can backstop me on that...

Not quite. 15 m of bouyant heaving line.. Painters don't heave well to another boat Unless you have gorilla arms! But that aside I cant imagine why anyone would not want a painter on each end. Handy for lining ( if you expect to do that you may want more than 25 feet)
That heaving line per the Ministry of Transport does not have to be contained but its a whole lot more user friendly if its in a throw bag carabinered to a thwart and not under your feet. Its 15 meters required but for us metrically challenged its 50 feet approx.

 

[boatstall]

Not quite. 15 m of bouyant heaving line.. Painters don't heave well to another boat Unless you have gorilla arms! But that aside I cant imagine why anyone would not want a painter on each end. Handy for lining ( if you expect to do that you may want more than 25 feet)
That heaving line per the Ministry of Transport does not have to be contained but its a whole lot more user friendly if its in a throw bag carabinered to a thwart and not under your feet. Its 15 meters required but for us metrically challenged its 50 feet approx.

Heaving line in a throw bag seems like a practical addition to any vessel. Is that a DIY, or do most just purchase?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Most just purchase.. I have actually used it. I have two one from my whitewater days which is 100 feet of floating line and the other for Canadian requirements ( 50 feet)

 

[Odyssey]

I admire those of you who splice. It turns blunt and brutish into beautiful. Nice stuff. I once worked with a fellow from the Maritimes, he was a Nova Scotian I think, who used to work on the docks. He learned to handle ropes, including how to knot or splice any kind of braid and diameter. He demonstrated for me while on our smoke break. Gosh he made it look easy, but I knew it wasn't.
To be precise, I have lining ropes bow and stern, but not really (separate) painters. I like the larger diameter, purely for "feel". Never had rope burn, nor tangles. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough. I also don't bow knot the ends, as I rarely have the ropes played out to the limit anyway, but always try to be aware how much I've got left. My lines are shrink wrapped and melted at the cut ends. Neat and tidy enough for me. A sailor I'm not.
I bought a throw- bag/line years ago and have never had to use it, but have practised with it. It's surprisingly awkward. Not like throwing a baseball. The base runner would pick up extra bases on my throw- bag throw.