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A lightweight "stand-up-able" solo canoe?

Glenn MacGrady

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My Hemlock SRT is a great dual function lake and whitewater solo canoe, but it's too tippy for me to stand up in with confidence. It's an adventure in equipoise even switching from a kneeling to a sitting position and vice versa.

When paddling a twisty slow creek, swamp, marsh or vly, I often miss the ability to stand up and perhaps paddle-pole as I can do with my tandem canoes. But tandems are too long and much too heavy for the niche solo canoe I have in mind.

Are their any very lightweight, center seat, solo canoe models that are stand-up-able? And yet are not pigs or dogs to paddle. I like a 15' length for solo canoes. The lines of the Stewart River Ami appeal to me, but it's too heavy and much too expensive.

Ideas appreciated.
 
That's a good question. I do a lot of standup-paddling in tandems with a dedicated SUP paddle. I prefer positioning myself just behind the bow seat (between seat and stem) and paddling stern forwards, i.e. traditional reverse direction when paddling symmetrical tandems solo. There are lots of reasons I like to paddle this way. The biggest reason is that by alternating kneeling, sitting, and standing positions I can extend the duration of time my body remains comfortable in the boat. Maintaining a variety of postures alleviates the stress placed on knees, hips, shoulders, torso, etc. But to your question about dedicated solos. I paddle two: an Osprey and a Raven. I don't enjoy standup-paddling in either of them, though. It's do-able, but not enjoyable due to their twitchiness. I don't pack an SUP paddle on trips in those boats, and that's one important reason for me to often choose to solo-paddle my tandems over my dedicated solos.

That said, I haven't experimented with standup paddling in those two boats when they are fully loaded. That might make them feel more stable, though I doubt that I could propel those hulls from a standing position the way I can my tandems. I should get around to testing that assumption some time, though.
 
A true center seat solo no, not that I am aware of. I use a Bell morningstar converted to a solo. I moved the stern seat forward and installed an extra wide one so I could comfortably heal the canoe if desired. I paddle standing or casting from this position quite often. It is the perfect solo for me. I don't know how it could have ever been designed as a tandem, unless the two paddlers weighed 120 pounds each. Pic is next to a Northwind solo for size comparison.

The MorningStar is at home on all types of water. It maneuvers nimbly due to its shorter length, but will hold plenty of gear for a long weekend trip. Crossover tandem and solo capability make this the perfect cabin canoe and pocket tripper.
SPECIFICATIONS
LENGTH: 15'6"
LENGTH / WIDTH RATIO: 5.8
WEIGHT: 36/41/55 lbs
ROCKER: Bow 2.5" / Stern 1.5"
CAPACITY: 6" Freeboard: 950 lbs
SHEAR: Bow 21" / Mid 14" / Stern 19"
GUNWALE WIDTH: 32"
MAX WIDTH: 36"
4" WL WIDTH: 32"
3" WL DISPLACEMENT: 310 lbs
4" WL DISPLACEMENT: 420 lbs
5" WL DISPLACEMENT: 580 lbs
 

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I haven't stood up in a canoe, for 30 yrs now. The last one was a 17' Lowe line Aluminum. It worked great, but at 80# I don't think that is what you want !

Yeah like Midwest Firecraft, you need to convert a light weight tandem, in my thinking .

Jim
 
I can and occasionally do stand in both my wood strip Kite and my carbon copy Kite
They're J Winter designs, 14 ft 6 in OAL and quite versatile. Although both are heavier than I hoped, they weigh 39 and 28 lbs respectively.
Maneuverable, seaworthy and fast enough.
But you can’t buy one, you gotta build ‘em, or get someone to build one for you. Or stumble on someone else’s build that no longer uses it.
Wheres Alan? Didn’t he have one or two of them?

Glenn, you’re welcome to borrow either of mine for a test run, I’m busy building my new house and don’t have much time for paddling, it would be nice to know my hulls are getting wet.
 
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My Hemlock SRT is a great dual function lake and whitewater solo canoe, but it's too tippy for me to stand up in with confidence. It's an adventure in equipoise even switching from a kneeling to a sitting position and vice versa.

Are their any very lightweight, center seat, solo canoe models that are stand-up-able? And yet are not pigs or dogs to paddle. I like a 15' length for solo canoes.

Their must be.

I’m assuming a less rounded bottom, something with a shallow arch or shallow vee, and likewise assuming you don’t want a flat bottomed canoe. Admittedly the only canoes I was truly comfortable standing in were flat bottomed OT Campers and Pathfinders. heck, I could walk around in those pigs.

I have not paddled one but maybe a canoe designed for standing and poling? Millbrook Coho or Soughegan? One of our polers can address the specs and “not a pig to paddle” suitability of those models for your desires.

For a shallow vee maybe one of the discontinued Mad River composite canoes in the 15’ range? The composite Explorers and Malecites are longer than you want, and a composite Guide (14’ 9”, 46lbs) is probably too narrow at the 28” waterline.

I have stood in our Guide descendent MRC Freedom Solo, but not long and not comfortably. Composite Guides are rare as hen’s teeth used and snapped up instantly.

I don’t think MRC made a 15’ Explorer in composite, or if they did it had a different name, but something like that would seem to fit the all-arounder stand up-able criteria. For my (lack of) balance and mobility standing on a shallow vee seems more comfortable than standing on a shallow arch. YMMV.

The 15’ length limits the stand-able choices to some degree. Most of the current 15-ish foot solos seem (to me) too narrow at the gunwales and waterline to even consider standing with comfortable equilibrium of body and mind. Or standing at all more than oh-crap briefly without a sudden swim.

Maybe a 15’ “pocket tripper” tandem converted to solo seat. New center seat, couple new thwarts. Removable yoke or strap yoke. Probably have to buy a drill and screwdriver ;-)

If your plan is a new, currently in production canoe friends have ordered small tandems and had them factory converted to single seat solos, with there specifications for seat and thwart locations.

A true center seat solo no, not that I am aware of. I use a Bell morningstar converted to a solo

A composite Morningstar, used cheap with rotted brightwork and maybe some hull damage, is one of my dream canoes to strip and convert to a dedicated big-boy solo. The Morningstar specs are nearly dead center in my sweet spot.

Yeah like Midwest Firecraft, you need to convert a light weight tandem, in my thinking .

My thinking too, and a composite MorningStar might be just Glenn’s ticket to standing. I don’t think there is an equivalent Northstar model, but a couple out-of-my-price-range MorningStars have turned up used in the NE just in the last month.

I’m not the only one looking for one.
 
Something Mike said above twigged something. I paddled a used MR Independence for a few years before selling it. I liked that boat. I used to paddle it standing and did so without balance issues or discomfort. The V-hull is compatible with gentle heeling while standing which facilitates vertical strokes and subtle corrections. I liken the posture to how teens and rock stars often stand when they're being "cool" (at least they used to stand like that! ), with one or the other hip extended slightly in a "relaxed" attitude.
 
Probably more boat than you want but maybe you can use it for comparison purposes. I did a lot of stand up paddling in a MR Malicite that came with a center seat. It's very stable loaded or empty and paddles well.

Do you want to paddle standing for a period of time or just long enough to get a better look at something? Do you plan to take a six foot or so paddle or just get by with your typical length?
 
Hopefully foxyotter will chime in. Last time we went paddling he stood up in his new Trillium...he was talking about getting an SUP paddle. The Trillium is a pretty hot/narrow boat (but still has more primary stability than an SRT) so I'd think a Northwind Solo would be one good choice since it has a friendly shallow arch hull with significantly more stability than a Trillium. I should try it in my Swift Shearwater although just standing to get out at the take-out is sometimes pretty challenging.
 
Hopefully foxyotter will chime in. Last time we went paddling he stood up in his new Trillium...he was talking about getting an SUP paddle. The Trillium is a pretty hot/narrow boat (but still has more primary stability than an SRT) so I'd think a Northwind Solo would be one good choice since it has a friendly shallow arch hull with significantly more stability than a Trillium. I should try it in my Swift Shearwater although just standing to get out at the take-out is sometimes pretty challenging.

Just out of curiousity how much does foxotter weigh? I owned the Northwind solo in the above pic and would not have dreamed of standing in it at 5' 11" and 200 pounds. I can't imagine doing that in a Trillium.
 
I owned the Northwind solo in the above pic and would not have dreamed of standing in it at 5' 11" and 200 pounds.


I looked at the specs for the Nothwind Solo when I was checking to see if Northstar made something comparable to the Morningstar.

No way would I be comfortable standing in a canoe with a 26 ½” gunwale width and waterline.
 
I stood in a WildFire once. For about five seconds because Harry Rock dared me! No way for river travel !
 
Just out of curiousity how much does foxotter weigh? I owned the Northwind solo in the above pic and would not have dreamed of standing in it at 5' 11" and 200 pounds. I can't imagine doing that in a Trillium.

I'll just say lighter than you (or me) and younger than me. I had a NW Solo and it felt way more stable than my Merlin II which for me is very stable...when kneeling.
 
I've been paddling narrow, fast solo canoes in whitewater and flatwater for 40 years. I'd just like something in the solo quiver that has solid primary stability -- an erroneously maligned feature, as whitewater canoeists have rediscovered.

I like to stand up just to change posture, to get a better view, to take a picture, to paddle with a longish blade, to pole a little. I used to enjoy poling in shallow flats and swamps in Florida in my flat-bottomed Old Town OTCA. And not to worry about a side-to-side rocking chair on top of every beaver dam. And just to be able to stretch out, lie back, slump to the side, dangle my tootsies in the water . . . without the ever-present necessity to balance, balance, balance . . . and not to have to fear moving my head outside the gunwales.

Maybe a Colden/Bell Starfire or Hemlock Eaglet. Anyone have them to stand in? Or the Millbrook Coho and Souhegan, which were designed for poling. I paddled Peter Georg's Millbrook, but I can't remember whether it was a Coho or Souhegan, and I didn't think to stand in it as it was January in an icy river.
 
Think you’re on the mark with Starfire, Eaglet and the aforementioned Morningstar. Doable in all three.
 
Might be too big,but my novacraft pal with a center seat is real docile and not to piggish. it's also narrower than most flat bottomed tandems.
 
I have been thinking about picking up a SUP paddle for quite some time. The view while standing is really nice. I was standing and lily dipping down a river last night in my Trillium. The two paddles I had with me weren't long enough to really dig in. I only weight 160 5'10" mid forties with better then average balance. The Trillium is not an ideal boat for SUP paddling. It is twitchy but not bad for my tastes. She has virtually no primary stability but feels like I could stand on the gunnels and not push it under the water. It is a really sweet ride. I have only had her a few weeks but she is really amazing. She seems to defy the laws of physics in many ways. It is obvious that Ted bell and David Yost learned a few things about canoe design and building over the years. I have also used my tandem Sawyer X17 that has been converted to a solo/combi and even a row boat with 8 foot oars and extensions. The x17 is super sable but way too heavy and long for your tastes Glenn. She has been fun to experiment with.

I think the combi type boats like the Blackhawk, malachite, Polaris, Morningstar etc would be good candidates but a little long. The Swift Shearwater would be a good sporty candidate. Anything with a beam over 32 inches will start to turn into a real pig compared to what your paddling tastes but will offer more stability. The key is what you are comfortable in and how much balance you have. Some folks can't stand in a 16 foot jon boat let alone a solo canoe. Balance can be learned through practice. Ever try slack lining? I suck at it but some folks a really amazing. I find the key is to relax and go with the flow like paddling in clapotis waves.

I have looked at various SUP designs and most run 9.5 to 12.5 feet and 30-33 inches wide. I have seen designs that are as long as 14.5 feet and as narrow as 26". I don't have any real experience with a SUP. I have noticed that folks tend to stand flat footed and feet a little wider then shoulder width and that has worked in most canoes I have tried.

When I look at SUP paddles the blades on the paddles seem to be design for forward paddling with no finesse. Attempt an Indian or Canadian stroke and they would be very turbulent.
 
The key is what you are comfortable in and how much balance you have. Some folks can't stand in a 16 foot jon boat let alone a solo canoe.

That’s me.

I am always astonished when poler friends do silly poler tricks. Standing on a deck plate with 90% of the hull waggling / in the air for funsies, or standing with one foot atop each gunwale. How the heck do they get their feet up there to begin with? I’ve watched and I still don’t know. It’s like watching kids doing gravity defying skateboard tricks.

Glenn mentioned
It's an adventure in equipoise even switching from a kneeling to a sitting position and vice versa.

On the very rare occasions when I kneel that is a challenge, and I am more likely to capsize when trying to extricate my size 12’s in a flatwater pool than in the rapid just run. Friends of my age and decrepit unlimberness have similar struggles; “Come hold onto my gunwale while I get my feet out”.

For me a lot of that comes down to the shape of the hull bottom, and my unbalanced wobbles are exacerbated with an elliptical bottom.

That bottom shape, for me, would rule out the StarFire “An elliptical bottomed, symmetrical hull” blah, blah, blah.

I think the Northwind Solo is a shallow arch bottom, not sure about the Eaglet. Or I may have that vice versa.

A longstanding complaint about manufactuer’s hull descriptions and photos. Please, Please describe the bottom shape. If manufacturers have space for mentioning “soulfulness”, “adventure awaits” and “racing dusk to the take out” they have room to mention elliptical, shallow arch or shallow vee bottom design.

I realize that at some undefined point an elliptical bottom becomes a shallow arch. If manufacturers have space for a half dozen photos on and off water they have space for one photo that shows the bottom shape, maybe with the hull upside down, shot lengthwise from one stem. Lay a freaking 2x4 across the bottom for a more revealing illustration. Something, anything.

That is an old rant, but dammit the bottom shape is hugely important to my paddling preferences.

Trying to add to Glenn’s list of possibilities, maybe a composite Wenonah Wilderness?

15’ 4” long x 30-ish inch waterline, 30lb to 41lb in kevlar layups. Our Wilderness has gobs of primary stability and a shallow arch bottom. I tried poling our Wilderness once; it was a pathetically comical attempt, but I did not fall out.

Caveat; our Wilderness is a first year Royalex version, and the “shallow” arch is dang shallow, approaching flat in center hull. I do not know about the composite Wilderness bottoms.

https://wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=115

(Again, no description of the bottom shape from Wenonah, and half of the photos on that link appear WTF to be of Wenonah Prisms)
 
I've spent quite a bit of time in an Eaglet since I used to own one and also a Starfire since I used to store, pamper and paddle one that a friend owned. I much prefer the Starfire as a canoe both tandem and solo but for standing I'd give a strong nod to the Eaglet because it has much more primary stability than a Starfire.
 
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