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Thunder boxes, are they good or bad?

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Jun 3, 2015
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Anchorage Alaska / Pocono Mts.
I'm not a fan. I'd rather "go" where no man has gone before.

I can see the need in heavily traveled areas, as I'm sure they reduce the number of toilet paper piles you find at campsites, but I'm sure they can get pretty gross and unusable too.

In areas that have them, is it unethical not to use them, considering proper waste disposal is used?

I watched a Kevin Callan video from Algonquin where he stepped in human feces, twice, while setting up his tent at two different campsites, so I guess there is a need.
 
Thunderboxes? Don't like them. Don't like campsites that have them. I think they are dirty, disease-carrying, disgusting hovels—on a third world par with port-a-potties in a slum.

I'd much rather go in the woods, with proper sanitary disposal of course, and would be tempted to do so even where there are thunderboxes. But the ethical and crowd issues are real; everyone can't go in the woods. So, I mostly avoid places with thunderboxes unless I'm really motivated to paddle in such an over-traveled place.

Now, if I'm base camping, which I do a lot, a modern bath house with showers is a welcome amenity. I can still get the feeling of day paddling in the "wilderness" even if I'm spending nights in a nice campground.
 
I guess I'm used to them, having padddled mostly in BWCAW. Considering sites are used nearly every day between Memorial Day and Labor Day, a good thing. Rain and sun keep them relatively clean IMHO. It's exactly why I dont like the enclosed privies I find in Adirondacks. Popular sites in the Quetico - where it's all catholes - can get pretty unpleasant. Little toilet paper flags all over. I think current ranger recommendation is to bury waste but burn tp in the fire ring.
 
Not everyone knows how to sh*t in the woods, or even makes the effort to try. The worst places of unbelievably bad behaviour have been in Parks with perfectly good thunderboxes. I sometimes come across them on Crown Land but not usually. I consider them a luxury and appreciate the effort by staff or volunteers who install/maintain them.
 
Maybe there are different types of thunderboxes in different places that experienced users can describe.

I'm most used and reacting to the cheap wooden shacks with pit toilets that are just holes in a wood bench—the wood saturated by years or decades of urine and feces—rarely, if ever, cleaned out. And which can be smelled from 200 yards away. A famous AMC trip leader who was 80 years old 40 years ago used to bring a saw to cut away rotting parts of such wooden thrones and bleach (or some such chemical) to pour on the wooden petri dish of bacteria and viruses.
 
Outhouses I avoid like the plague
Thunder boxes are a blessing. Who can argue with a comfortable seat, a nice view in a beautiful setting after a delicious cup of morning coffee?
The thunder boxes that I’ve seen and used in the ADK’s are relatively new and clean, and a pleasure to use.
I have no problem with squatting over a cat hole, but much prefer a comfortable seat.
 
Maybe there are different types of thunderboxes in different places that experienced users can describe.

I'm most used and reacting to the cheap wooden shacks with pit toilets that are just holes in a wood bench—the wood saturated by years or decades of urine and feces—rarely, if ever, cleaned out. And which can be smelled from 200 yards away. A famous AMC trip leader who was 80 years old 40 years ago used to bring a saw to cut away rotting parts of such wooden thrones and bleach (or some such chemical) to pour on the wooden petri dish of bacteria and viruses.
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BWCAW thunderbox
 
Newer ones in BWCA have covers and I wish they didn't. Prefer the sun and rain cleansing.

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Then there are Philmont's PTBs (colloquially pilot-to-bomber).

1670366010048.png
I'm sure there are many more variations.
 

I've never seen one of those. I'd call that a fixed ground toilet, seemingly made of concrete.

I'm now thinking that "thunderbox" or "thunder box" are terms with slippery meanings. Most definitions of the term refer to a portable toilet contained in a box. It was originally a wooden box into which a chamber pot was placed. The newer portable boxes now seem to be made of folding metal.

A Google image search returns a lot of different images for "thunderbox", but nothing like that BWCA toilet. The majority are like this:

 
I'm with Odyssey, the design he posted is the standard for Ontario or at least in Provincial Parks in Ontario. I don't spend a lot of time within parks but over the years I've encountered dozens and can't remember encountering any that were not in good condition. The park ones get a lot of use and in spite of cutbacks seem to be moved on a regular basis.

As far as outhouses, at my cabin the outhouse is now over 80 years old, renovated once about 20 years ago, it's a doorless version which I added a 2' x 4' side window, no smells, great views. The one downside is that being open means an seemingly endless battle with a porcupine who took up residence at the cabin about 10 years ago.

I've had no luck live trapping, don't own a firearm but I've been tempted to go after him with an axe or club of some sort. My only option may be to try and outlive him (seems to be a hermit type, no indication that there has ever been more than one).
 
I have recreated mostly in the west and northern Canada, in areas very lightly, or seldom used. I have never seen a thunder box in my entire life. Until the term appeared on this site a while ago, I had never heard of a thunder box. I just asked Kathleen. Ditto for her.
 
We’ve got our share of the “pack it out with you” crowd up here and i have no idea how that’s working for them when everyone is looking. However, i know exactly how it works when NO ONE is looking! The rest of us find they’re little diddy bags just tossed along a trail some where. I always assumed this person was the last in line and knew they wouldn’t be seen. I once found an entire liter pop bottle full of urine, tossed along the trail.
 
I've yet to encounter a nasty unsanitary thunderbox

I'm with Odyssey, the design he posted is the standard for Ontario or at least in Provincial Parks in Ontario. I don't spend a lot of time within parks but over the years I've encountered dozens and can't remember encountering any that were not in good condition.

The box in the 2020 video I posted was in Killarney Provincial Park, which I believe is in Ontario. It's rotted, dangerous (exposed rusty nails) and unsanitary. It's similar to the one's I had in mind from the Northeast USA decades ago, except those were contained in an enclosed wood shack.

I also never heard the term "thunder box" until this site. We called them outhouses.
 
They're plastic or fiberglass in in BWCAW. I guess previously wood like some examples here. They are portable in the sense they get moved to new pits occasionally - I'm guessing years between moves. Add bwcaw to thunderbox in Google and you'll get them.

ps: that video sure shows why I prefer no lids!
 
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For the last 7 or 8 years, Kathleen and I have been bringing our own thunderbox. It’s a Reliance toilet with collapsable legs. It sits about a foot off the ground. I dig a cat hole beneath. A lot more pleasant to sit rather than squat. After each use, we shovel in some of the excavated dirt to resurrect the pristine appearance. We place the toilet paper in a paper bag, which we eventually burn in the fire.
 
The only place I've run across thunderboxes (I honestly don't recall what ADK or Algonquin had when I was there as a kid) in recent years is the BWCA and, although a couple of sites seemed heavily used, I didn't find them horribly offensive but I didn't really hang around longer than necessary (certainly didn't take the sports section and a cup of coffee). All that I saw were fiberglass and most had lids at one time but very few of those lids remained. This was pretty much standard in my experience.

I'd go 3 1/2 stars: Certainly suitable for the task at hand but probably not something you'll be posting pictures of online... Oh... wait...

IMG_20210522_092938500 (2).jpg
 
A bit of a tangent.

I have 11 acres with lots of deer and other wildlife, plus I had two dogs for much of the time. I noticed that I never encountered any fecal droppings anywhere unless they were essentially brand new.

So, about 10 years ago, I experimented a few times with myself in the summer. I just went on the ground in a remote place and left it there to see what would happen over time. (Not any TP, of course.) It was always completely gone within a week. Bugs and bacteria, I assume. I'm sure the experiment would turn out differently in different climates, seasons, and certainly with higher use. I wouldn't invite my neighborhood for such "visits" on my land.

I've also had two deer corpses on my land. One I buried with my backhoe. The other, before I had a backhoe, was completely assimilated within a couple of weeks. Even the bones eventually disappeared somehow.
 
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