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Strips for Pack Canoe Build in FL Panhandle

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Tallahassee, Fl
Okay so as usual I have been flip flopping on various building project possibilities. I am thinking that a strip built pack canoe would be a nice first strip built project. I am not in a rush to get started since the Summer is the time to be indoors here in Tallahassee, but may start sooner if inspired and able to gather the supplies. I have some RAKA epoxy on hand that should be used while it is still not too old

Getting materials for decent strips here seems challenging. Nice pre-cut bead and cove ones are available for shipping from far away. That tends to be expensive and often the lengths are not ideal. I really don't mind scarfing the strips to get the lengths I want though.

I'd be quite happy sawing my own strips and planing the edges rather than beading and coving if I can buy some suitable lumber locally. So that opens the possibility of other lumber species. Things like poplar, cypress, and various species of pine are available locally. Poplar is less rot resistant, but is that really an issue when encases in epoxy? Cypress sounds like a decent candidate, but would be a little heavier. Maybe not bad with 3/8" thick strips? Ideally I want to keep it light, but realistically I'd think a boat that size is going to be pretty light if care is taken in the other choices regardless of the wood species within reason.

I will actually work the numbers when and if I have a better idea of what is possible.

Thoughts on any of that? Other suggestions?

BTW, I saw the Nick Schade roto bevel tool that uses the Veritas Mini Shoulder Plane to cut the bevels. I don't see any reason that you couldn't make a home made tool that uses a full sized shoulder plane (which I already own). That said eyeballing the bevels probably doesn't require all that much practice since they don't need to be perfect. If all else fails the tool and the Veritas plane are not all that expensive especially if you are going to build more than one boat and/or will use the Veritas plane for other woodworking tasks.
 
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Hi Pete,

Some info on the wood you mention, you can get basic info on the woods by using the wood database .... so a search for "wood database popular" and "wood database cypress" yields ( I offer this in case you didn't know, I find it a useful reference):

https://www.wood-database.com/poplar/

https://www.wood-database.com/cypress/

The weight cost of popular (compared to western red cedar) is about an extra 30% on the hull, cypress is far worse (weight wise at ~42%) and is harder to work with .... I traveled 3.5 hours to get the strip lumber (northern white cedar) for my last build. That may seem like a long way, but realize it's more about project needs than the lumber cost, you will be putting a lot of effort into making strips and then using them to assemble the base of your project.

Starting with the best wood you can source (within reason) is a good start ... as your build continues you have decision after decision to make, you will likely need to compromise and adjust thinking as you go and each of those decisions/compromises get carried forward through the build. If you purchase heavier or "harder to work" wood, then you get to live with that, through the entire project. There is no right or wrong in this, just realize the implications of each decision moving forward. So if weight is important to the build, then that initial wood selection is a pretty big deal.

I also suspect you meant 3/16" strips, unless our definitions of a canoe pack boat are way different.

If you have the option of making your own strips ... that is definitely a big money saver. You can pretty much buy all the tools required and pay yourself, with the cost difference between ready made and self made strips. As far as using beveled strips, that is definitely a choice, but it may be better to stick with cove and bead for a first build, they are simper and produce nice tight joints, plus alignment (strip to strip) is far more secure. Once you have the experience of the 1st build under your belt, a lot of the decisions for your second one will change .... but for the first one, you may want to just keep things as straight forward as possible. One other thing to realize with beveled strips, if you are doing a kayak, you have a little leeway in fitting the bevels, in that the interior is not fully visible, as it is in a canoe. Fitting those bevels is a skill set in itself, regardless of how simple it looks, it requires skill ... not saying it shouldn't be done on a first build, just think about how steep you want to make the learning curve ....

Just a couple thoughts

Brian
 
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Thanks. I was aware of and use the wood database regularly. Yeah I did mean 3/16" strips.

I have no qualms about driving a half day each way to get nice lumber. I have gone farther. As a luthier I have often gone on longer road trips for nice lumber. Pretty much any decent lumber is a couple hours away. Not sure if there is much in the way of nice cedar available near here or not. I haven't seen it if there is.

As far as working with cypress... I have done so a good bit and have not found it bad to deal with.
 
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How far are you from Sarasota ?
I know Mac McCarthy, (Deceased) the originator of Feather Canoes had his shop there. I think you may find some local help there, if not too far for you. I'm a fan of Mac's Wee Lassie II. That's if you like a Double paddle canoe.
 
How far are you from Sarasota ?
I know Mac McCarthy, (Deceased) the originator of Feather Canoes had his shop there. I think you may find some local help there, if not too far for you. I'm a fan of Mac's Wee Lassie II. That's if you like a Double paddle canoe.

I am in Tallahassee so about a 5 hour drive. It would be a long day or an overnight trip, but not out of the question. If combined with some other trip it would become more reasonable so I'd consider a paddling or other destination in the area. I'll try to find some info on them.
 
Pete,
Have you considered strips from a Divinycell tree?
5 lbs/ft^3...
Unless you're against a full composite build, it could be a fun little project.
 
Pete,
Have you considered strips from a Divinycell tree?
5 lbs/ft^3...
Unless you're against a full composite build, it could be a fun little project.

I have not considered it. I wouldn't rule it out entirely without consideration, but I am totally unfamiliar with it. How similar is the process?
 
Strips are strips, I’ve read about a Divinycell strip build using Gorilla Glue to hold the strips together. Sanding would be quick and easy, And Divinycell strips are extremely compliant, otherwise the same as a wood strip build. You may need intermediate support between forms or possibly strip over a rough plug.
If ever I finish building my new house, I’ll do a foam strip build thread.
 
Strips are strips, I’ve read about a Divinycell strip build using Gorilla Glue to hold the strips together. Sanding would be quick and easy, And Divinycell strips are extremely compliant, otherwise the same as a wood strip build. You may need intermediate support between forms or possibly strip over a rough plug.
If ever I finish building my new house, I’ll do a foam strip build thread.

I have never seen/handled Divinycell so I don't really have a feel for how "floppy" it is in the sizes of the strips that would be used, but wondered about form spacing possibly needing to be closer.

A quick google search didn't yield a lot on usage for canoe building. One picture I saw showed a different approach where closely spaced stringers were used as a female mold. The foam was installed as short pieces in the direction of ribs rather than the typical long stringer type strips.

I am kind of intrigued, but there seems to be a bit of a dearth of info compared to the wealth of info on working with cedar strip or skin on frame for that matter.
 
Pete,
There was a member here that strip built a foam core hull
He lives in the Netherlands?? He posted about his efforts here, I can’t recall his screen name, maybe Jim or Alan remembers him.
Maybe you will become the future foam stripper expert!
 
Pete,
There was a member here that strip built a foam core hull
He lives in the Netherlands?? He posted about his efforts here, I can’t recall his screen name, maybe Jim or Alan remembers him.
Maybe you will become the future foam stripper expert!

Thanks. I may look into it a little more, especially if I don't find any nice cedar locally or within a days drive.
 
It occurred to me that Paulownia (also known as kiri) might be nice for strips. It is18 lbs/ft3 compared to 23 lbs/ft3 for cedar and its other properties seem reasonable. I have a piece of it that I have left from using it as a tone wood in musical instruments, but it is only 2x6x48 or so. If I could find a source I think I'd give it a try. Interestingly it is grown and harvested in the states, but it is mostly exported to Asia. I understand they are now using it in guitars, skis, and surfboards as a core, but don't see any decent sources for lumber in sizes that make sense for milling strips..

I am waiting to hear back from Feather Canoes. Hopefully they will either have some cedar or a lead to chase on some. My local mill is also keeping an eye out for some. A local supplier and two cabinet shops will order anything for me, but they are all expensive and I don't like buying sight unseen at that kind of prices. In that case I'd probably just order premade $$$ strips probably shipped from somewhere 1000 miles or more away.

Then again I have not completely ruled out composites.
 
Grain orientation is important to me, regardless of the species of wood you chose. ( It doesn't matter with foam of course)

Planks should be flat grain, to get quarter sawn strips. The strongest.
I much prefer 1X stock, and then all I have to do is rip strips with my Trusty Skilsaw !

f7518a5d-5453-450d-a286-541301b75c9c_zps86a8581a.jpg
 
Rough sawn WRC at the big box building supply centers seems like the go to source for most boat building projects. Is there a reason they don't carry WRC in Florida? I like to go through the stack from time to time whether I need it or not to have some relatively clear stock on hand. I rip it twice, once to get the strips down to the right thickness then another pass to bring it down to 3/4" . The paulownia wood you mentioned would be a great choice for weight reduction. Do you have a source that has long lengths?
 
I rip it twice, once to get the strips down to the right thickness then another pass to bring it down to 3/4" .

If you bead and cove your strips ?
Running the strip between the fence and and router bit, eliminates the need for your second pass to get 3/4" width.
I do this with all my strips.

Note the feather boards.


IMG_0208_zpsh6pwzphe.jpg

Jim
 
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Rough sawn WRC at the big box building supply centers seems like the go to source for most boat building projects. Is there a reason they don't carry WRC in Florida? I like to go through the stack from time to time whether I need it or not to have some relatively clear stock on hand. I rip it twice, once to get the strips down to the right thickness then another pass to bring it down to 3/4" . The paulownia wood you mentioned would be a great choice for weight reduction. Do you have a source that has long lengths?

To be honest I have been social distancing and have not looked in person. My impression based on memory was that what they had was eastern cedar and aromatic cedar. Maybe I need to go look and see. I may be making a problem where there is none, but I did read that the western species wasn't available here. There is a local lumber yard that would probably order some for me and I have contacted them for a quote on enough for a few boats (I can always use it even if it is for projects other than boats) and am waiting for a reply.

On the paulownia, I have no source here. What paulownia have, I bought when I was living in Maryland. I think it came from a mill in SE Pennsylvania (Groff & Groff) if memory serves me correctly. I don't know if they actually milled it there or not. I'd be curious enough to maybe give it a try if they had some on hand and they weren't 1000 miles away.
 
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An alternate choice when cedar isn't available is often basswood... it's a little harder than cedar but still not so hard that sanding becomes a nightmare. The range map below shows it grows near Florida.

https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/tilame/all.html

I think it is readily available (I have not actually shopped for it here). It is only a little heavier and it is not bad to work with in my experience. It isn't as pretty as cedar. not that that is necessarily a show stopper. It is rated as non-durable for rot resistance, but encased in epoxy I guess it is okay as long as pains are taken to not allow damage that permits water intrusion to go unrepaired.
 
There is a pack canoe in this thread, made from basswood and walnut strips... unfortunately the pix are messed up by the photobucket tag, but the lighter-toned basswood provides an idea of the looks.

https://www.myccr.com/phpBB3_PROD/v...&p=248205&hilit=BATTENKILLER+BASSWOOD#p248205

Other basswood strippers have looked rather uniform in tone (there doesn't seem to be much variation in light and dark basswood strips)... so a darker accent strip might go a long way towards adding to the looks.
 
There is a pack canoe in this thread, made from basswood and walnut strips... unfortunately the pix are messed up by the photobucket tag, but the lighter-toned basswood provides an idea of the looks.

https://www.myccr.com/phpBB3_PROD/v...&p=248205&hilit=BATTENKILLER+BASSWOOD#p248205

Other basswood strippers have looked rather uniform in tone (there doesn't seem to be much variation in light and dark basswood strips)... so a darker accent strip might go a long way towards adding to the looks.

Wow, with a little walnut to accent it the basswood is really pretty. I could see using other accent woods as well.
 
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