This video applies only to base camping canoeists in cold weather, but has some good info for the less experienced about heat flow, condensation, bag and mat insulation ratings, and safety.
Sleeping in tent vs. car vs. pickup bed in 10° F
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
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Just a few random thoughts: In his final analysis, he solved the icing problem in the car by cracking 2 windows but didn't unzip anything on the tent to increase ventilation & mitigate the moisture so I'll disagree with his final rankings.
I also wonder how much testing he actually performed himself as much of the footage was from other sources (I recognized 2 YouTubers and a few promotional stills). Perhaps he's using other people's intellectual property with their permission but you'd think that he'd credit them if that were true.
Personally, I think the info is worth thinking about and some of the points are valid but the guy's got enough subs to be making money on the videos and, although I'll admit that I over-think things, I won't be subscribing or sharing this video until I'm certain that he's doing his own work.
(Note: If anyone on here can say definitively that he's legit, I'll happily rescind the last 2 paragraphs and perform penance by watching more of his videos)
Regardless of enclosures, I'll agree 100% with the ideas that keeping your bag moisture free and making sure that you have adequate insulation under you are the most important factors.
Oh, one more: the mispronunciation of the word "read" at the 20:21 mark makes me suspect this is completely AI but, by the time I reached that point, I was already predisposed to dismissal.
Any way, just my 2 cents (do we round that to the nearest nickel now?... I guess that'd be "nothing"... carry on)
I also wonder how much testing he actually performed himself as much of the footage was from other sources (I recognized 2 YouTubers and a few promotional stills). Perhaps he's using other people's intellectual property with their permission but you'd think that he'd credit them if that were true.
Personally, I think the info is worth thinking about and some of the points are valid but the guy's got enough subs to be making money on the videos and, although I'll admit that I over-think things, I won't be subscribing or sharing this video until I'm certain that he's doing his own work.
(Note: If anyone on here can say definitively that he's legit, I'll happily rescind the last 2 paragraphs and perform penance by watching more of his videos)
Regardless of enclosures, I'll agree 100% with the ideas that keeping your bag moisture free and making sure that you have adequate insulation under you are the most important factors.
Oh, one more: the mispronunciation of the word "read" at the 20:21 mark makes me suspect this is completely AI but, by the time I reached that point, I was already predisposed to dismissal.
Any way, just my 2 cents (do we round that to the nearest nickel now?... I guess that'd be "nothing"... carry on)
That was a strange video, like it was an info-mercial for who knows what. All I know is that I'd rather sleep in a capped truck bed, a car, or a tent than sleeping within an open-faced snow berm with spruce/fir bows for a roof and floor.
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I have been sleeping in tents since the 1950s and have spent a lot of time sleeping in the open. In the last 20 years I have mostly slept in the back of pickup with a canopy on it except for river trips in a tent. It helps to bring plenty of pads to sleep on and insulate your body from the cold steel of the truck bed. The sides of the truck body are noticeably cold around 20 degrees F. They seem to radiate cold. I have often thought of a carpet kit or spray on insulation to make it warmer for shoulder season trips. In the eastern Sierra we often camp at 6,000 to 9000 feet. I got tired of truck camping at 76.
This year I have used a little rPod trailer which is very comfortable. I have used it a lot in spring and fall. It makes life easy. Warm, out of the wind, it has lights, furniture, a head, and a furnace if required. It is a real refuge in the fall when the light fades at 1700. I like to sit by a fire for awhile and then retire to the trailer. In the morning the head is right there. I swing my legs over the bed and stand up. Making coffee warms up the rig. No more lying around in the dark waiting for the sun to come up. My dog loves it.
This year I have used a little rPod trailer which is very comfortable. I have used it a lot in spring and fall. It makes life easy. Warm, out of the wind, it has lights, furniture, a head, and a furnace if required. It is a real refuge in the fall when the light fades at 1700. I like to sit by a fire for awhile and then retire to the trailer. In the morning the head is right there. I swing my legs over the bed and stand up. Making coffee warms up the rig. No more lying around in the dark waiting for the sun to come up. My dog loves it.
My local club does a winter overnight camping trip each year the last weekend of December or the first weekend in January. Temps are usually high 30’s/low 40’s during the day, and low 20’s/high teens at night. Last year we had temps in the teen’s during the day and single digits at night. The trip got cancelled not because of the cold, but because the river froze and we weren’t able to paddle to the campsite. Several years ago we had rain and temps in the 40’s – mud every where. I’ll take the cold over the mud.
I have a four season tent – an old Eureka Expedition Sentinel. When there is snow I put a plastic ground sheet under the tent and inside the tent. I have a 1/2-inch closed cell foam pad (R-value 1), and insulated Klymit Static V pad (R-value 4.4) and a zero-degree sleeping bag with synthetic fill. I sleep in long-johns, a fleece union suit, wool socks and a hat. Bundled up in that sleeping bag I’ve been plenty warm. Coldest I’ve been out in is the middle teens.
Several members of the club have gone to hot tents with the stove. Nice and warm, but it is a lot to lug around. I’m OK in my unheated tent.
I have a four season tent – an old Eureka Expedition Sentinel. When there is snow I put a plastic ground sheet under the tent and inside the tent. I have a 1/2-inch closed cell foam pad (R-value 1), and insulated Klymit Static V pad (R-value 4.4) and a zero-degree sleeping bag with synthetic fill. I sleep in long-johns, a fleece union suit, wool socks and a hat. Bundled up in that sleeping bag I’ve been plenty warm. Coldest I’ve been out in is the middle teens.
Several members of the club have gone to hot tents with the stove. Nice and warm, but it is a lot to lug around. I’m OK in my unheated tent.
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In the 60's as a pre-teen I did a lot of car camping with my mother, we had an Econoline van with the rear seats removed and covered the floor with 3/4" plywood which definitely helped take the chill off. In the 70's we had a new Econoline and recycled the plywood floor. In 1980 my mother switched/downsized to a Toyoto pickup, the plywood floor was cut down to fit. In 1988 the floor moved to a new Toyota pickup and then in 2001 the same floor was moved to a new Tacoma. I inherited the Tacoma in the mid 00's when my mother could no longer drive. I'm still driving (and sleeping) in that 2002 model with the now 60+ year old floor.
Those 2 sheets of plywood probably cost less than $25 (about 40 cents per year!)
This video is AI slop
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It takes some work, but a canvas tent with a wood stove is a very civilized way to live outdoors. Some furniture makes it comfortable.
I remember an elk hunting trip in Idaho. We were short one chair. My carpenter friend walks into the bush with an axe. He comes out dragging some saplings and make a nice chair in 15 minutes. He took it home and used it for 3 years on his patio.
I was on a ski trip in Colorado with a large group a long time ago. I got in an argument with my wife and went out and slept in my Toyota pickup. It had a good canopy and a padded carpet kit in it. I used a down bag and a blanket. The bag was rated to 10 degrees. F. I was warm enough in the truck. The reported temperature that night was minus 15 degrees F.
I remember an elk hunting trip in Idaho. We were short one chair. My carpenter friend walks into the bush with an axe. He comes out dragging some saplings and make a nice chair in 15 minutes. He took it home and used it for 3 years on his patio.
I was on a ski trip in Colorado with a large group a long time ago. I got in an argument with my wife and went out and slept in my Toyota pickup. It had a good canopy and a padded carpet kit in it. I used a down bag and a blanket. The bag was rated to 10 degrees. F. I was warm enough in the truck. The reported temperature that night was minus 15 degrees F.
Vehicles are fridges on wheels, unless you can pad out (inwards) that steel box. We loved our minivans cargo style for cheapskate boon-docking pre and post trips. Was never a Chateau Frontenac but sure fit the bill. A twin size inflatable mattress over a reflective car blanket, topped with fitted sheet and down bags. Wool blankets if needed. Never cracked the windows because of the mozzies.
Also drove full sized cargo vans (for work), and despite fitted cushioned floor carpeting (guys on job sites scoffed at seeing that) you could feel the cold coming off all those steel walls and glass. The space ++++ The feels ---
Now we drive a couple of small cars. The front seats don't recline enough for sleeping comfort and the back areas are restrictive. And we're not getting any younger (read flexible). Copious cargo space. Them were the days.
I am a confirmed tent dweller, but I can almost relate to the van life thang.
Also drove full sized cargo vans (for work), and despite fitted cushioned floor carpeting (guys on job sites scoffed at seeing that) you could feel the cold coming off all those steel walls and glass. The space ++++ The feels ---
Now we drive a couple of small cars. The front seats don't recline enough for sleeping comfort and the back areas are restrictive. And we're not getting any younger (read flexible). Copious cargo space. Them were the days.
I am a confirmed tent dweller, but I can almost relate to the van life thang.
My job relocated 100 miles from home, so rather than quit or move, I chose a 4 day work week, sleeping in my truck 2 nights a week for the first year.
I had a 6’ bed in my truck with a cap. I layed a 4” thick foam pad on the floor and used a thick cotton sleeping bag with flannel lining. I slept in long Johns and kept warm every night thru the NY winter.
I have never gotten a decent nights rest sleeping in a car seat.
I have a cotton wall tent but have never slept in below 20’s F without heat, again, thick sleeping bag and some insulation ( foam pad or wool blanket) under the bag while sleeping on a cot, cold wood stove, Istayed warm.
I had a 6’ bed in my truck with a cap. I layed a 4” thick foam pad on the floor and used a thick cotton sleeping bag with flannel lining. I slept in long Johns and kept warm every night thru the NY winter.
I have never gotten a decent nights rest sleeping in a car seat.
I have a cotton wall tent but have never slept in below 20’s F without heat, again, thick sleeping bag and some insulation ( foam pad or wool blanket) under the bag while sleeping on a cot, cold wood stove, Istayed warm.
One time I slept in my car near Jay Peak, VT in temps that reached -13F. I cracked the windows and used a -30 degree sleeping bag and slept remarkably well. I did have a ring of frost form around the sleeping bag aperture, which I had sinched tightly around my face but otherwise didn't deal with any moisture or condensation problems because the windows were open. Needless to say my water bottles were all frozen in the morning. Thankfully the car started right up, albeit slowly.
I prefer the van over the tent. It is more wind and rain proof. Also wildlife is less likely to give you problems. Especially in places with rodents and raccoons.
I've slept in the winter with snow all around and didn't need a vent. If you do encounter conditions that need a vent it is possible to make or buy something to fit in the windows.
I've slept in the winter with snow all around and didn't need a vent. If you do encounter conditions that need a vent it is possible to make or buy something to fit in the windows.
My wife and I slept under the cap of my pickup on our way to Mad River Glen, Vt. When we got up I was able to start the truck through the sliding window and we waited for the cab to warm up before getting out. The radio station in Rutland said it was minus 16. That I believe was my wife's last winter camping experience.
For canoe trips where we had to sleep overnight before starting the trip I would bring an extra tent for that. It was a small easy to set up 2 person tent. It was quicker then setting up the campfire tent. I think we got a better night's sleep then sleeping in the truck.
As far as that video, I'm glad I only listened to it while doing the dishes. There wasn't much new information for me, but I guess it could prevent the uninformed from asphyxiating.
