Poll: What percent of the time do you use a double blade paddle solo?

[GearFreak]

Bending Branches makes a decent intro level double blade - the Slice Solo.

https://www.bendingbranches.com/canoe-paddles/solo/slice-glass-solo/2pc

I received one earlier this month after special ordering it from a local vendor. I tried it, my daughter & my dog on a local lake. I doubt I would have been able to replicate the same limited progress had I solo paddled. Quartering winds, wakes, and a randomly shifting 45lb wet dog made control interesting.

I am really keen on it and cannot wait to trip with it. I think it was about $220 Cdn landed in Wpg (plus taxes).

 

[daveo4]

I only use a single blade in my solo canoe and recently started using a smaller blade area (Bending Branches Sunburst) and immediately liked it a lot. I have tried bent blades a few times and couldn't get into them. I decided to buy one ( a BB Sunburst 11) to really give it a chance and used it on a recent 9 day trip, switching from the straight and back to the bent often. By the end of the trip much to my surprise I became a bent blade convert. So I still only use a single blade but it is a bent blade paddle when trying to make some miles. I still like a nice ottertail for slower, more relaxed cruising.
​Regards to all,
Dave

 

[Guest]

I hate to say it but light weight is a big help.. And they tend not to be cheap..In this case I think its better to avoid wood ( my husband would disagree..but I find his paddle enormously heavy).I have had a carbon fiber paddle for over ten years

I don’t mind saying it. Weight matters a great deal with a canoe length double blade, where you are lifting and swinging one sizable end of that stick out of the water on each and every stroke.

We started with 277cm Mohawk double blades. Aluminum shaft and plastic blades.3 lbs 4.2 oz. There were not many choices at the time in canoe length doubles; Mohawk, Shaw & Tenney, DIY or custom made.

Mohawk’s aluminum shafts are cold and not indexed, and the feather is an awful 80 degrees. I can perhaps credit my arm strength and endurance to using those Mohawks for 10 years. We still have them; it’s hard to kill a Mohawk.

And I don’t disagree about wood doubles. We moved on from the Mohawks to Bending Bending Branches laminated wood doubles. 270cm, indexed oval shaft, 60 degree feather, but only slightly lighter at 3 lbs, 2.8 oz. The wood was warmer and every facet of the shaft and blade design far superior to the Mohawks, but they were not much lighter.

And finally, skipping the fiberglass stage, moved to carbon fiber doubles. The carbon 260 Werner Camano weighs 1 lb 12.6 oz in carbon. I have not touched a Mohawk or wood double in years.

A story; I had a friend visiting, let’s call him Willie. We went out for a group day paddle and I lent him a decked canoe and one of the wood doubles. Willie is accustomed to a carbon double at home.

100 yards from the put in and Willie was already 90 yards behind. The b*tching and moaning became so intense someone finally swapped paddles with him. Can’t say as I blame him, once you go carbon. . . . .

But even without going the full on pricey carbon route there are now canoe length doubles available from a bunch of manufacturers, including some well designed mid-range choices in glass shafts and nylon blades. We have a 250cm Aqua-Bound fiberglass MantaRay that weighs just under 2 lbs 8oz. A little over $100 and still light enough that even Willie could swing with it.

Time for some rudimentary math. A Mohawk of BB wood double is 3.25 lbs. The carbon Camano is 1. 75 lbs. That’s a pound and a half difference. Let’s say I’m really only lifting and swinging half that weight difference on each stroke. . . . .12 oz.

12 oz on every stroke. I have no idea of my average strokes per day, pick a random round number. 5000 strokes a day. 12oz X 5000 strokes = 60,000 oz. Someone check my math, but that looks like I was lifting an extra 3750 lbs every day.

Yeah, weight matters. Like going from a Feathercraft to a Zaveral.

Shaw and Tenney does make some but for me they are too heavy.

http://www.shawandtenney.com/engravableproduct/touring-kayak-paddle

We had one, solid wood 280cm, 3 lbs 4.2 oz but it somehow felt much lighter, oddly balanced with remarkably light blade swing weight. Near dripless because of the throat design and very quiet on the pull, with a different water feel from any other double I have used.

The Shaw and Tenney also the most delicate blade of any paddle I have owned. I cracked and repaired the blades twice in short order before deciding I just couldn’t trust it and gave that paddle to a friend.

He has cracked the blades a few times himself, and despite the weight and fragility it remains his favorite double. YMMV.

 

[Guest]

I wish I never had to use a double, but shoulder problems force me to use one sometimes. it depends on the trip,wind,pace I need to keep ect. I think of it like an auxiliary motor on a sailboat- sometimes you have to use it. I enjoy single blading much more. I use a 250cm bending branches navigator which is the best double I have found.
Turtle

 

[Murat V]

Don't want to get into the weight debate about wood paddles, but here is something that paddle maker Craig Johnson did for those of us who might not want to bring both a single blade and double blade on a trip. He made two sassafras paddles with a flattened grip area and rigged up a cam-lock system to clamp together and form a double when needed.

More pics over on this thread of the WCHA forums

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Don't want to get into the weight debate about wood paddles, but here is something that paddle maker Craig Johnson did for those of us who might not want to bring both a single blade and double blade on a trip. He made two sassafras paddles with a flattened grip area and rigged up a cam-lock system to clamp together and form a double when needed.

More pics over on this thread of the WCHA forums

That's clever!

I sometimes carry a double as a spare, because it can be a lifesaver in a blow. One of our local day trips goes down a portion of Snake River canyon that is notorious for up-canyon afternoon winds. I bring the double along for that, but actually have only used it there when my single blade broke. And that was only until my friend let me borrow his spare single. Between the choices of 25% and never, I guess I am closer to never.

BTW - that BB Slice is a decent double. Not too heavy for occasional use. We recently got an Accent Air carbon shaft paddle for my wife. 1 lb 8 oz @ $200. Mo-betta!

 

[Trevor Paetkau]

I don't. For a number of reasons; I've 45 years of muscle memory imprinted into my shoulders, I feel like I have more control with a single blade, but mostly if I were entirely honest, it's because I don't like getting my lap wet.
That said, my wife using a double paddle and she's downriver before me. I'd venture that she's 30% more efficient. I wonder if anybody has done a study.

 

[frozentripper]

I agree with bigger-picture muscle memory theory, esp after many hours spent paddling, when mental processes devolve into something more basic.... maybe like grunts when verbalized. Both bents and double blades don't feel good for me and since I'm out there for the enjoyment of being out there, I never use them.

That said, my wife using a double paddle and she's downriver before me. I'd venture that she's 30% more efficient. I wonder if anybody has done a study.

I believe there has been some expert opinion on this... Charlie Wilson IIRC, said that over the long haul, a single blade will be more efficient since the mechanics of keeping both arms up to move a double blade will burn more energy....? Maybe it was John Winters.

Anyway, one way to find out is to have two identical individuals paddle an infinite distance and see which covers more water before blacking out. Speeding ahead in the short run won't help since it will result in unconsciousness or brain damage sooner. My money's on the tortoise with the single blade.

 

[lowangle al]

I've never used a double in a canoe and don't think I ever will. I like that with a single every time I switch sides I change my grip. The fingers on the palm grip end get to rest while the other hand is gripping the shaft. If I didn't have this option to change my grip, my fingers would go numb and eventually hurt in short time.


The other thing, on the few occations I've paddled a Kayak I didn't feel confident that I would have the blade oriented correctly in an emergency brace. With enough time I'm sure I could overcome this.

 

[Guest]

I agree with bigger-picture muscle memory theory, esp after many hours spent paddling, when mental processes devolve into something more basic.

No doubt about muscle memory. It has been a long time since I primarily (once, exclusively) used a single blade. Long enough that a double now feels far more natural.

Anyway, one way to find out is to have two identical individuals paddle an infinite distance and see which covers more water before blacking out.

I like that experiment. All we need is identical twins in identical boats, one who has always been devoted to the single blade, one who has used a double for 20 years. I suggest the infinite course be into a headwind. And against a slight tide or current.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I believe there has been some expert opinion on this... Charlie Wilson IIRC, said that over the long haul, a single blade will be more efficient since the mechanics of keeping both arms up to move a double blade will burn more energy....? Maybe it was John Winters.

Anyway, one way to find out is to have two identical individuals paddle an infinite distance and see which covers more water before blacking out. Speeding ahead in the short run won't help since it will result in unconsciousness or brain damage sooner. My money's on the tortoise with the single blade.

No it was a Charlieism. Oft uttered with a glass of a good zin in one hand and the other trying to truss up the latest chef creation. I will have to remember that i have a stopwatch on my phone and risk getting it wet.

I've got muscle memory for both double and single blade. Now ISO open water.. preferably warm.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Not that it matters, but it is not for me. I get a joy out of a good paddle stroke when my canoe does just what I want.

​Kayaks: It's a turn-off, man...

​Best wishes to everyone that uses them.

 

[yknpdlr]

Not that it matters, but it is not for me. I get a joy out of a good paddle stroke when my canoe does just what I want.

​Kayaks: It's a turn-off, man...

​Best wishes to everyone that uses them.

Ditto, exactly...

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

I have a specific canoe I built just for double paddle . It is a narrower canoe with a lot of tumblehoam, boat seat mounted on the bottom (about 4" high), I only use a double blade paddle in that boat, it's the boat in the photo to the left actually, that was taken on a carry into Preston Ponds in the Adks.

I never use the double blade in my other more traditional boats.

 

[flyingbison]

I haven't tried a double blade yet, but I'd like to. Seems like it would be helpful for long distances and/or paddling in wind and waves. Anyone have recommendations for a decent, moderately priced double blade? Maybe I should try to find a place that rents them to try it before buying one?

I finally had a chance to try the double blade I picked up last fall. Not my preferred method, but it seems to work wonders heading into the wind. I probably looked like a wounded duck, but it was effective. I'm not sure how long I could do it, though - that's a whole different set of muscles!

 

[Iskweo]

Today's efforts have left me more confused than ever. If I am largely hit and switch, would that not be akin to a double blade. It sure felt like it would be.
I should make up a Greenland style double by copying two otter tails ...I hit and switch with my ottertail very well as it is light and manageable. Maybe I will sneak karins out when she is not looking and tape the two together to try it.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Today's efforts have left me more confused than ever. If I am largely hit and switch, would that not be akin to a double blade. It sure felt like it would be.
I should make up a Greenland style double by copying two otter tails ...I hit and switch with my ottertail very well as it is light and manageable. Maybe I will sneak karins out when she is not looking and tape the two together to try it.

Hit and switch is as efficient as a double blade if the single blade is 10 oz or so and a short blade.. Long ottertails are too heavy and too much swing weight to achieve the 60 bpm cadence necessary to match the 30 cycles a minute of a double blade. The really only practcal way to do 60 bpm with an ottertail is the Northwoods stroke. ( which the ottertail is well adapted for)
The weight of the double matters too. Probably most are amazed at the speed of the double cause they only paddle about 24 strokes a minute with a single which is 12 double cycles. Anyone picking up a double will at least do twice that.
Hit and switch can be wetter than with a double except that the lollipop shaped blades are designed to shed water before the blade passes over the interior of the boat.

 

[yknpdlr]

The darn onboard drips are the biggest negative I have to using a double, which is required by race rules when using a boat such as a Placidboat Rapidfire. I was paddling along side a guy (who was a PB boat builder employee) down the length of Long Lake during the 90-mile race, when he had to stop in the shallows at the end of the lake to dump gallons of water out of his boat. I've had to do that in the past when racing with a double blade in the RF too.

I normally use my RF with a bent shaft carbon paddle to train for races that I will be doing in larger canoes (voyageur, C4 or C2). As bow paddler, I try to keep a race stroke rate of around 55-65 for those behind me to follow. I always prefer to use a single blade in the RF whether race training or not. Hit and switch is the only effective way to race, but when training by myself or simply recreating solo I dislike the hit and switch method. When not race training I prefer a willow-leaf or short shaft otter tail wood knife edge blade, paddling for extended time on one side or the other.

 

[Iskweo]

Hahahaha ohHH thats a good one YC. I dont come anywhere near 60 beats per minute. This is recreational canoeing, not racing. Maybe 30 hit and switch when I am in a hurry. Gettin old you know. I can see where a double would be faster. Perhaps my estimate of 30spm is low but you get the idea. I tend to take a bit longer stroke too...yes the horror....so that slows my count down when I am loafing.

I have a really nice little light ottertail that karin got me from MEC. I like it quite a bit. Not as feathery light as the Raven but balanced well so it seems easy to swing. Maybe some day I will get one from Red River Canoes...retirement present to myself.

 

[Cruiser]

I have been following this thread and a couple of things, about using a double blade, seem to repeat 1) the paddle passing over the middle of the canoe 2) water dripping in the canoe. These items don't track with my experience.

Once I completed my Freedom Solo, I did quite a bit of reading about what type and how to use a double bladed paddle with a canoe ... after 3 years of tripping with the twin, there is little doubt that it is more efficient, faster and provides a better degree of control in open water, I carry an Otter Tail as a spare and that gets used once I get into streams and tighter places (sometimes).

I will risk condemnation and offer the following:
- a twin designed for a kayak does not equal a twin designed for a canoe
- a kayak style stroke is not optimum for a canoe

What I understood from the literature and confirmed (for me at least) from a few years tripping practice is that the recommended canoe twin is a low angle blade design, coupled with low angle stroke. In practice, this means the paddler never raises the blade above shoulder height, so a lot of the swinging around is eliminated ( and the paddle never crosses over the canoe), and drips inside the boat* just don't happen from the stroke.

Usually when picking a canoe twin, you go for a low angle blade and longer shaft (270-290 would be the range) which is quite a bit longer than would be usable in a kayak. The longer shaft accommodates the low angle stroke by getting the blade further out to clear the gunnels. The width a skinny canoe is still quite a bit wider (in general) than a kayak, hence the low angle puts the blade farther out and at a shallow angle ( you need to clear the gunnels), whereas the kayak allows a higher angle and blade placement near the boat (skinnier craft). The object of any stroke is to "just" bury the blade in water ... in a kayak, using the kayak stroke, this occurs close to the boat, while in a canoe, you need to clear the gunnels, so this has to happen further out .... as you go further out the stroke changes to accommodate the distance, it is no longer required to go up much more than to clear the water. Using a twin that is too short (i.e. kayak length), in a canoe, is just going to be awkward, as with any equipment, it needs to be fitted to the task. If you used a regular paddle that was 3" too short, I suspect it would not be pleasant to use either. So just grabbing a kayak paddle and trying that in a canoe is not usually going to be a fair evaluation.

I have friends who only use a single blade in their solos ( I totally respect that), but when we trip it is usually a mix of solo and tandem boats and the single blade solo will usually end up playing "catch up" to the tandems ( I hate playing catch up). Using the twin evens the playing field (for me at least) and it is usually pretty easy to outpace either, and not just for a few minutes, it is sustainable with out much effort. I did install foot braces, which I think is an essential part of getting the most out of any paddling style.

In the end, the choice of paddle and paddle style is in the head of the paddler, as is the canoe choice ..... I do occasionally use the single, just to get a sore shoulder ... I mean keep in practice, but for any tripping, it will always be my twin.

Brian

* As an aside, water in the boat is inevitable from a variety of sources (i.e. rain, paddle switches, neighbours giving you the paddle etc), I found laying a sham wow on the bilge near your feet is a good way to handle this and just wring it out occasionally.