Planning my first Cedar strip canoe.

[ThreeScoutDad]

I am beginning the research towards starting my first cedar strip canoe.

First a little background. I bought our first canoe, an Old Town RX Tripper, around 1990 in preparation for a BWCA trip we were planning. Well do to various reasons it took 25 years to get to that trip and it was just completed in July of 2015. It was a great trip with many learning experiences, one of which is our gear was way too heavy for our route. The Tripper weighs in at around 78pounds. Since we are on a budget and not able to afford a lighter canoe, either new or used, I believe I can build one for less and achieve a significant drop in weight, and the second canoe will be less yet due to already owning the strong-back and forms. I will need two canoes to handle myself and our three boys In addition, this gives me time with my sons.

Now what to build. Although we completely enjoyed the BWCA and do plan to go back, hopefully much sooner than later, it is a long trip from our home in central Indiana. Our local paddling options are mainly rivers and larger reservoirs. Ideally, I would like a canoe that is as usable solo as it is tandem; however, my understanding is most do not do both well and may only serve one or the other fairly. During my research, I came across the Jacks Special, which appears to meet most of what I think I am looking for, lighter weight, narrower than my tripper, solo/tandem use, and the bit shorter length may work better for my boys when they are paddling together. This research also led me back here to memaquay's recent build, which I had followed, just not with enough insight to “what” he was building until now. By the way, a very good-looking canoe!

So a few questions for those who have paddled this canoe, how does it do in a tandem situation, how is the stability, any other considerations before I dive into this adventure, is there a better recommendation i should look at?

Thanks in advance for taking time to read through this.
Bryan

 

[Mihun09]

Well, we have Mem's forms for the Jack's Special but we also have the second set of plans from Robin, with the forms we don't need the plans. I'm sure Mem will chime in with his thoughts on that boat as a small tandem.

 

[Iskweo]

While it is a lovely boat, I find it a bit small for tandem tripping. I have a 15.5 foot and it is a bit better but I would go with a 16 footer if it were me. They will make a better tandem and can still be used solo. Try Bear Mountain Boats for plans.

Christy

 

[Canotrouge]

I would say 16 feet "prospector" paddle solo well does good as a tandem, can do up to class III well and does all right on the flat!

 

[Jim Dodd]

I for one don't agree with "Comby boats". For one you will never be happy with it in both worlds !
These days, I build solos. You will find, you spend more relaxing time in a good solo, than struggling, trying to paddle a tandem.
Build two solos !

Sorry, just my $.02 worth.

Jim

 

[memaquay]

Ya, unless you live in the Shire and have a round door and a friend called Gandolf, I would say the Jacks special would be too small for a tandem. It's a great solo, but it would be pretty twitchy for two. A chestnut Pal would be a good compromise. It can be used for a small tripper for two, and makes a pretty decent solo as well.

 

[stripperguy]

Bryan,
A wise choice, building your own boat, that is.
You'll get way more boat for your money and you can't put a price on the enjoyment of building, especially if your boys chip in.
Greenval has some nice J Winters designs, the Winisk in particular might suit you. Not knowing your weights or intended loads, or paddling experience, it's difficult to make a firm recommendation. What may feel squirrelly to you, may feel stable and comforting to me.

I also believe that a tandem/solo combo will disappoint, too much compromise. Build your tandems, use them, then decide if you want/need a solo.
A word of warning, once you switch to solo paddling, it's hard to climb back into a tandem!!

There are quite a few of us here that can supply advice and counsel, take advantage.

 

[Robin]

I like the idea of the Jacks Special (same as Chestnut Chum 15') set up tandem as a second canoe in your situation.

1. Set it up as a tandem, you can use it as the second canoe with two boys paddling it with some gear, or you and a boy with less gear. I have used my Chum this way with my granddaughter, it worked well.
2. You already have a big canoe so the smaller tandem will work well with you and 3 boys. (edit, what I mean is two tandems, two people per canoe, and lots of options for who goes in what canoe as the boys grow up) Set up tandem, it has a center thwart for easy portage. I think a teenager will have little problem portaging this canoe in stripper, I found Memaquay's light compared to the my same canoe in wood canvas. I found the stripper sat higher in the water than my wood canvas Chum and was a bit more twitchy than I was used to, but nothing a little kneeling wouldn't eliminate till I was used to it..
3. The Jacks works well as a solo sitting in the bow seat with the canoe reversed. I have used mine this way in recent years on extended trips and it's works well for me. I had a Chestnut Chum set up solo with the seat nearer the middle of the canoe but I always liked the tandem set up better.
4. The Jack's Special will work well for a boy to take out solo for an evening fish or exploring around camp.
5. I used to trip in a 16' Chestnut Pal, from the bow seat canoe reversed. I actually have done many more trips with the Pal than the Chum (Jacks Special) but as I aged I found the Chum more to my liking. The Pal was better in big water waves and made a better tandem with more room for gear, but you have a big canoe and with 4 people the Jacks seems like a good option for tandem/solo use.

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Thanks everyone for your input and replies. Looks like I need to anaylis a few more designs and consider a bit more how it willbe used. In doing a quick search, I was having trouble finding a strip plan for the Pal, only being able to find a WC. Will the same form work for both?

 

[memaquay]

Send this fellow and email. http://www.carryingplacecanoeworks.on.ca/html/cdn_price.html
I think that's where I got my plans, I'm thinking it was re-labeled as the Wilderness Express,

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

Send this fellow and email. http://www.carryingplacecanoeworks.on.ca/html/cdn_price.html
I think that's where I got my plans, I'm thinking it was re-labeled as the Wilderness Express,

Thanks, will do.

 

[tump_lion]

used a chum and earlier a (nova-craft) bob special for weekend tandems for over a decade...not a bad boat for that, a bigger boat is faster and has more freeboard and room for a dog, but the chums is good out for about a week thro moderate water -- these day's i'm using a prospector 16 for solo and tandem (and re-building the chum) -- it's a little large for solo but okay -- the pal is probably a good compromise...

 

[Rippy]

I use a Nova Craft Pal for solo tripping in the BWCA and love it. I use it on day trips with my wife. It's a pretty good all around boat. Used it one year tandem on a trip with my nephew. I'm 220 and he's 230. With a weeks worth of gear it was loaded down with about 6" of free board left and handled like a pig. It was OK in quiet water but made me nervous in quartering waves. I would not load it like that again for a trip. I will rent a bigger canoe next time I go tripping with another adult. The Pal does not carry a big payload well. Figure out what your intended use (and payload) is and do more research. Asking questions is good.

 

[ThreeScoutDad]

I use a Nova Craft Pal for solo tripping in the BWCA and love it. I use it on day trips with my wife. It's a pretty good all around boat. Used it one year tandem on a trip with my nephew. I'm 220 and he's 230. With a weeks worth of gear it was loaded down with about 6" of free board left and handled like a pig. It was OK in quiet water but made me nervous in quartering waves. I would not load it like that again for a trip. I will rent a bigger canoe next time I go tripping with another adult. The Pal does not carry a big payload well. Figure out what your intended use (and payload) is and do more research. Asking questions is good.

Thanks Rippy. All of my boys are pre-teen and light weights. So for the near future overloaded would not be a problem. I work with numbers during the day, so my intent is to put a spread sheet together with all of the various modle stats for a comparison and see what looks to fit the need, then see if i can find one to test paddle..

 

[Robin]

Here's a shot of my twin sons about 1984 in a 13'6" circa 1955 chopper gun fiberglass canoe with some camping gear. I never loaded them heavy, I used my 16' OT Camper solo for the bulk of gear for our short ADK trips. On portages I had to haul the canoes and they grabbed the packs back then.



I still have the canoe and it's held up well, considering it layed on a beach all summer for 20-25 years. We used it on a big Canadian lake back in the early 80's, many a day we took it out in huge waves wearing bathing suits and pfd's to test it's metal, the little canoe held it's own and was something to see bobbing up and down in the waves.
Later I loaded it with goose decoys, a lab and my gear and paddled out in the pre-dawn darkness to set up before shooting hours, always felt comfortable in it.
My point is.... well, don't sell a small tandem short, it's perfect for your son's ages and makes a very serviceable solo tripper down the road.
Just my extra 2 cents on the subject.