I am planning to purchase a Cirrus 14.6 and have a choice of two that are most accessible, one in the expedition Kevlar lite layup with Carbon/Kevlar trim that has an extra layer of Basalt Innegra on the outside (Basalt finish), or the other that is Expedition Kevlar Lite with the epoxy resin system instead of their standard epoxy/vinylester resin, with Carbon/Kevlar trim. They both weigh 29.2 lbs, but the epoxy canoe itself is about 1 lb lighter because it also has a footbar and grab handle installed. I am in a quandary about whether one or the other is better for my use. I am getting old so the light weight is important. I live out west and can expect to bang on rocks now and then, and I always have in mind inadvertent bangs or even a drop due to wind and fumbles. Does anyone have direct knowledge of these two layups and their additional value beyond the standard layup version? They both come at a cost, but the epoxy is greater cost. However, I am leaning toward the epoxy version, and prefer it's ruby color. And it already has the accessories I would like. What do you think?
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Looking for advice on current Swift layups
- Thread starter Bill Fryer
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Red canoes are the fastest so good choice 
)
Swift layups are changing so fast so it is hard to know how itholds up after a season of 5 . But I guess both will do great..
)Swift layups are changing so fast so it is hard to know how itholds up after a season of 5 . But I guess both will do great..
This is going to sound nontraditional, but have you called and chatted with Swift to get their take on your needs?
Yes, but these are the two available choices now. Otherwise, I'll spend more on transportation on a custom order than either upgrade costs. I'd rather have a stronger canoe at only the cost of a lb or so.
As I understand Swift's laminates for the Kevlar Lite construction, the difference between your two laminate options is that one would have an outer layer of red polyester with clear gelcoat, and the other would have an outer layer of basalt/Innegra with clear gelcoat plus epoxy resin instead of hybrid vinylester/epoxy resin. Both would have a basalt/Innegra interior.
Which is stronger—an outer layer of polyester with epoxy resin or an outer layer of basalt/Innegra with vinylester/epoxy resin? I don't know, but I'd guess the latter would be slightly stronger. However, I don't think the difference is worth worrying about. Bill Swift says in the following video that the Kev Lite construction with the standard poly outer layer is stronger than the standard Kevlar Fusion layup, which is used in most of Swift's canoes.
So, if it were me, I wouldn't base my decision on a guess about the strength of two excellent hi-tech layups. That would probably be the lowest factor on my totem pole. I'd base my decision on aesthetics (do I really want a B/I interior and exterior), on whether I wanted a foot bar (which I would in a sitting canoe) or a grab handle, and on price.
Which is stronger—an outer layer of polyester with epoxy resin or an outer layer of basalt/Innegra with vinylester/epoxy resin? I don't know, but I'd guess the latter would be slightly stronger. However, I don't think the difference is worth worrying about. Bill Swift says in the following video that the Kev Lite construction with the standard poly outer layer is stronger than the standard Kevlar Fusion layup, which is used in most of Swift's canoes.
So, if it were me, I wouldn't base my decision on a guess about the strength of two excellent hi-tech layups. That would probably be the lowest factor on my totem pole. I'd base my decision on aesthetics (do I really want a B/I interior and exterior), on whether I wanted a foot bar (which I would in a sitting canoe) or a grab handle, and on price.
for your usage, I'd suspect either layup will be more than durable enough, I've got one of the original Kevlar fusion boats, and I've put it through he11, bouncing it off sharp granite rocks, dragging over ledges and dams and dry footing it on gravel beaches. I've even "boofed" it off granite outcrops to push the bow over to miss a souse hole In all that time I've never caused any harm that wasn't just cosmetic- it looks like the victim of a drive- by sandblasting but has never had a crack or hole.
both those layups are far superior to the original "fusion" layup, and real world differences between to two seem small which boils it down to esthetics and price.
I'd suggest calling Swift and getting your answers from the horses mouth- One warning though, if you get Bill Junior on the line expect the conversation to last an hour or more, if you start discussing various layups with him you'll get a chemistry, physics, and design tutorial that will leave you with a whole new vocabulary...
both those layups are far superior to the original "fusion" layup, and real world differences between to two seem small which boils it down to esthetics and price.
I'd suggest calling Swift and getting your answers from the horses mouth- One warning though, if you get Bill Junior on the line expect the conversation to last an hour or more, if you start discussing various layups with him you'll get a chemistry, physics, and design tutorial that will leave you with a whole new vocabulary...
Thank you for your thoughts. I did call Swift and talk with Brandon, and he says that the epoxy resin system is definitely the stronger and more impact resistant laminate as well as slightly lighter. The basalt/innegra finish just substitutes basalt/innegra cloth for the outer polypropylene layer and is still a 3-layer laminate, so only marginally stronger. He says the epoxy resin is much more significant. Probably overkill for my needs, but it is available now and can't hurt.
Although not specifically about the layups, I can offer the following insight.
I love the look of wood, but I also prefer the carbon thwarts, handles etc. because I do not like the necessary fastener hardware above the gunwales on the wood thwart configuration. If I were to order a new boat I would also omit the removable yoke attachment point so that the gunwales had no protrusions other than the endcaps. My personal reason for these choices revolve around disliking things that snag fishing lines and also the way I load and unload and having to deal with things that snag while sliding boats on and off racks.
I love the look of wood, but I also prefer the carbon thwarts, handles etc. because I do not like the necessary fastener hardware above the gunwales on the wood thwart configuration. If I were to order a new boat I would also omit the removable yoke attachment point so that the gunwales had no protrusions other than the endcaps. My personal reason for these choices revolve around disliking things that snag fishing lines and also the way I load and unload and having to deal with things that snag while sliding boats on and off racks.
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