Football area: Herring bone pattern

[Joe Pikul]

Hello
I am looking for sage advice on using a herring bone strip pattern in the "football area" of the hull. I am building an Ashes Solo Pack 13' using bead and cove strips. I am stripping with cove side up. I cannot visualize how (if) bead and cove strips would work in a herring bone. This is my first build using stemless construction and while I was doing "firsts", I thought I ought to give herring bone a try.
Thanks

 

[memaquay]

Simple answer....yes, it will work. I used it on one of my canoes. I prefer using a centre line approach, but the herring bone is pleasant to look at.

 

[alsg]

Hello
I am looking for sage advice on using a herring bone strip pattern in the "football area" of the hull. I am building an Ashes Solo Pack 13' using bead and cove strips. I am stripping with cove side up. I cannot visualize how (if) bead and cove strips would work in a herring bone. This is my first build using stemless construction and while I was doing "firsts", I thought I ought to give herring bone a try.
Thanks

Stemless, cove up, and herring bone is how I constructed my first (and to date only) canoe. It works. The last strip will be a headache but they always are right? As for visualization, take a look at the below detail photo of the football. The ends of each strip in the herring bone area are trimmed and result in a butt joint up against the cove side of the previous strip on the opposite side, which means little glueing surface at the butt joint itself. However, each butt-jointed strip is locked in place by the next strip coming in from the opposite side.

 

[Traveler]

I am working on an Ashes Solo Pack right now, using the herringbone pattern. I did the centerline cut thing for my first canoe (Ashes Solo Day) but switched to herringbone on my second one (Freedom 17.9) to try something different, and find that I prefer it. The issue of gluing surface pointed out by alsg can be dealt with by slicing an appropriate length bead off a piece of scrap and gluing it into the cove at the connection point beforehand - that way you have two flat faced surfaces to glue at the intersection point. A bit tedious (extra minute or two per strip) and not really necessary, but might help with piece of mind and for me at least it leaves less glue to clean up on the inside.

Here is the herringbone pattern from the inside of my Ashes Pack - I’ll be starting the final sanding of the inside in the next hour or two.

 

[Clint]

Would it be easier to do bead up or transition to bead up when you get to the hearing bone part? That way you could use a round file to cut the cove into the cut part that you are fitting. I've never done it... just thinking out loud.

 

[Alan Gage]

Square edge strips aren't that hard either. Might make things easier.

Alan

 

[alsg]

There are many ways to build a strip canoe. Cove up/herringbone is one. If chosen, as the OP has done, the method does not need to be improved on because it works just fine as is.

Changing cove direction or gluing bits of bead where there isn't any or filing a cove where there is none is a lot of extra unnecessary work for no gain. Even an end-grain-to-end-grain butted glue joint is stronger than the surrounding wood.

 

[RickR]

Here's 2 cents from a first time builder. Hull geometry plays a big part in how easily a herringbone pattern can be used to close the football. Hulls that are "flatter" across the centerline accommodate a herringbone pattern better.

I like the herringbone look and planned on using it to close the football on my J Winter's "Yukon". When I reached that point I didn't like the way fits were lining up and adopted a centerline approach. The Yukon has some centerline V the length of the boat, greatest at the bow and less so at the stern.

I don't have a picture, and it's hard to describe but I'll try. The boat centerline passes through the midpoint of the herringbone end cut. The short point edge of the strip goes past centerline, and will be high relative to it's mating strip. The long point edge of the strip falls short of the centerline and will be low relative to it's mate. Strip width, angle of intersection, and amount of V all influence how much mating strips will be "not flush" at the edges, but they will only be flush at strip centerline.

On my build, at the bow end, the highs and lows were significant enough that I was worried how much strip thickness would be left after fairing.

 

[Joe Pikul]

The ends of each strip in the herring bone area are trimmed

When you say trimmed, I think that means rounded like a bead ? I see what you are doing. Thank you.

 

[Joe Pikul]

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. This canoe is my 4th build and I thought that rather than doing the tried and true, I would try some different building methods. I have built using the "centerline" approach and have built by running a double beaded strip down the centerline and closing port and stbd. sides individually. The center line has been the easiest for me. My goal on this canoe is to build a 30 lb canoe, so I gravitated to the stemless method to save weight. As I work, I keep thinking that I would love to have that inner stem to speed things up. I think initially more work is needed in preparing the inner and outer stems, but once that work is done, the process is streamlined. But, like I said, I am looking to save weight and try something new.

 

[Jim Dodd]

On my very first canoe, I Herring boned it. The strips were square edged. It worked great, and I really learned the strip fitting technic.
Bead and cove would definitely complicate things, but it is doable, as others have stated.

I first thought that Herring bone would add strength, down the centerline. After years of building the Canoe Craft method, I don't believe there is a strength benefit !

I have done all my canoes stemless. My time is valuable at least to me ! Stemless is all I'll ever build, strippers that is.
The interlocking of Bead and Cove strips is very easy with a 1/4" Rat tail file.
Here is a link to my method. Skip to page 2, of my Pearl build, for how I learned to do it.

https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/pearl.73909/


Joe In any case, enjoy the build.

 

[Roybrew]

I did the herring bone on mine. 1st time build. I made mistakes but it worked out pretty nice. I think.

 

[alsg]

When you say trimmed, I think that means rounded like a bead ? I see what you are doing. Thank you.

Nope. Just cut the end of the strip at an angle.