BWCA Permits

[BWCA66]

2024 Season BWCA permits go online at 9am Central time this morning, they are all first come, first serve. Unfortunately the trend the last few years is for folks to grab the majority of the permits right away without firm plans. This leads to a lot of cancellations many of which are done too late to be used by others. Cancellations and no shows have tripled over the last 4 years. I think social media has hyped the idea that there aren't enough permits to go around when in truth there has never been a year when over 80% of the permits were used. I wonder if there is a better system.

 

[Jmharrick]

I think I’m seeing a similar thing happening at the campsites on Middle and Lower Saranac Lakes in the Adirondacks. I believe you can only book 9 months before your trip start date. It appears people are making a booking for the maximum number of nights for a campsite (14 days) to block out that second week they want, and then cancelling the days they don’t want later. I’ve logged into the Reserve America system to book trips as soon as the booking window opens several times over the last few years, only to see the campsites I want are all already booked for a 14 day window starting before and ending after the dates I want. I can’t think of many people who would camp on those lakes for 2 weeks.

 

[Blukanu]

Never done BWCA, but do you pay a fee for a permit?

I know with my state’s park system (WI) there’s a fee to book campsites. You can cancel a reservation but you only get a portion back, not sure what their formula is. That gives a financial incentive to not book unless you’re serious. Also, by allowing some refund to cancel encourages people to do that to at least recoup some cost should their plans change. They still incur a financial penalty but then someone else can book the campsites.

 

[BWCA66]

They do that in the BWCA but you get a refund of everything except $6, not much of a deterrent.

On the brighter side I did secure my permit for a May Rainbow and Lake trout trip.

 

[CaptainOllieWest]

This happens everywhere. Virtually every time I camp in an organized campground, there are lots of unoccupied spaces that have been reserved. The problem seams to have gotten worse in the last few years.

 

[billconner]

They do that in the BWCA but you get a refund of everything except $6, not much of a deterrent.

On the brighter side I did secure my permit for a May Rainbow and Lake trout trip.

Even if they kept it all, it could only be another $32 - so $38 total. Two people at $16 (for up to 365 days iirc). You can add people when you pick up permit. Still not much of a deterrent.

 

[CaptainOllieWest]

A simple solution may be a requirement to verify your reservation a day or two before the date (or a week) or they automatically get released.

 

[Gamma1214]

Could we call the Forest Service and suggest that canoetripping.net members get dibs?

 

[Nick Pending]

A simple solution may be a requirement to verify your reservation a day or two before the date (or a week) or they automatically get released.

My wife and I have had trouble with that before in back-to-back permit trips where we weren't available to do the verification you mention for the second one because we were out of contact on the first one. We didn't have schmardt phones, not that there was cell service where we were anyway, even if we'd had one. We had to have the outfitter we were using do it for us (and worried they wouldn't remember). This is seldom a problem, admittedly, but could crop up with others. There are usually workarounds, not that they're always easy.

 

[Bentpushrod]

I’m a BWCA virgin. Got on the Recreation.gov website right at 9 am Wednesday, and got my first choice. Not sure if it was luck, or my choice of entry point and date. But I’m very excited to go. Permit is for EP 54 on Seagull lake on September 15th.

 

[Keeled Over]

How about a huge non-refundable deposit if you don't show?

 

[Art D]

How about a huge non-refundable deposit if you don't show?

This would put the BWCA out of reach of poor people. They would not be able to afford the deposit, even if it was returned upon arrival. How do they do it in Algonquin and other Ontario provincial parks?

 

[billconner]

I think the BWCA solution is to overbook like airlines. Calculate the canceled and no shows, and adjust the quotas proportionately. Keep all deposits 30 days prior. Only release permits canceled more than 30 days. Basically quota max at popular entries.