Bigger Water Solo

[ABT]

I took an ACA class on the MO river on Saturday and had a great time but the last hour or so we had ~17 mph headwinds. I have several boats, but most are solos for smaller rivers where wind is not an issue. I wanted a little larger boat that was stable and that I was very comfortable in for the class so I was in my Starfire. It did everything I asked of it as usual, but fighting that headwind in an unloaded 15’ boat with high rocker was a bit of a workout. My Phoenix was on loan to someone else taking the class and it did a little better, but I don’t think any boat I have would have been great as that’s not really within their optimum design envelope.

Photos from the class:


I’m not ready to buy another new boat yet, but to fuel my fantasy research and indecision for the future I thought I’d ask what everyone recommends for a boat that can handle:
-open water/large rivers like the lower MO or lower Mississippi (several hundred yards across)
-pretty windy conditions
-potentially significant current at wing dykes/boat ramps/etc 5-8mph (but overall more lake like conditions)
-motor boat wakes
-occasional pretty large waves from commercial barge wakes
-mostly day trips, occasional overnights up to 4-5 days, but not doing 2 week expeditions. So mostly unloaded paddling but potential for needing ~300 lbs total capacity.
-this fantasy boat is a niche/limited use case for me, so wouldn’t be interested in storing or messing with a deck/spray cover.
-Would be nice if it could be used as a fairly efficient (but not a dedicated racer) solo for the MR340 if I’m ever serious enough to do it (340 mi race from KC to STL, 60-90 hr finishes are “common”). Would just want to finish, not place.

As added criteria:
-Wenonah: I have paddled Rendezvous and Wilderness and didn’t like the low tumblehome “bubble” and assume Voyager/Encounter would be similar (and have heard both can be a struggle unloaded in the wind without covers). Advantage is too small for capacity needs I think.
-Northstar/Bell: Magic is probably(?) too small based on spec’d optimal weight limit max of 280 lbs.

Despite similarities in specs to the Magic, I believe only a few boats available meet the criteria:
-Hemlock Peregrine. I have been told by Hemlock it can take well over 300lbs without issue which I wouldn’t have guessed from specs.
-Swift Cruiser 16.8 (gunwale width of 23.5” sounds tight)
-Sanborn Orion. Not much info available but they told me at Canoecopia in March it can take 300+ lbs without issue with no issues. Little cheaper than Peregrine. Very similar to Magic/Peregrine.
-possibly Wenonah Prism, tumblehome style still a concern.

Didn’t include more general use flatwater/crossover solos like NW Solo, Kee 15, etc due to less efficiency than list above, but if I should have, feel free to let me know.

Please let me know your thoughts. Again just for fun/hypothetical, I’m not rushing out to buy a boat tomorrow.

 

[ppine]

It may be an unpopular point of view, but I like a tandem boat for solo with a load on big water.
For decades I never owned or even paddled a solo boat. I had a friend that was very independent and hard to paddle with in the same boat.
I would bring two canoes and we would each solo one of my tandem boats.
I liked the Sawyer Cruiser. It had rocker. It did tend to slice through waves though.
Tandem boats have more beam, they tend to be deeper and longer. More flotation and more stability. The dunnage for overnight trips can be shifted forward. I usually paddled from the rear seat.
I would bring a kayak paddle along. When the wind comes up they can be helpful on bigger water.
Trimming a canoe is really important in the wind.

 

[kahel]

I would bring a kayak paddle along. When the wind comes up they can be helpful on bigger water.
Trimming a canoe is really important in the wind.

That's it!

I've also got a kayak paddle with me…
and if I have to, I'll turn around in my seat, grab my kayak paddle, and fight my way forward against the headwind.

 

[riverstrider]

I think most boats will have some level in handling difficulty in a stiff headwind. Something with low freeboard would be best. Even in big waves, paddling a solo boat with low sides from the center of the boat allows the bow and stern to bob up and over the waves. A bit of cheek or flare in the bow helps. And I always carry something with weight in it to adjust trip. In a small solo boar, it doesn't take much weight to make a huge difference in trimming the boat for wind.

 

[Tryin']

From the specs, the Prism *seems* to be pretty much just a slightly smaller Encounter. FWIW, I currently plan to run the MR340 in 2027 with my Encounter. Unless I find a Prism cheap....

PRISM:



ENCOUNTER:



I would think most boats that have a straight-tracking keel line and enough freeboard to cut larger waves are going to be a handful in a stiff breeze.

 

[gumpus]

I remember paddling my Peregrine alongside a buddy in an SRT in a big headwind. The SRT could not make forward progress but kept the paddler safe and dry while blowing side to side. Peregrine was able to punch through very slowly even with a few drops coming in over the bow from wind-blown waves. Peregrine is awesome in high wind but quite stubborn about turning so you can't just stick the bow into 5-8 mph current. I carried well over 275 in my Peregrine with me pkysca black lab and it never felt burdened. Peregrine is pretty fast; faster cruising than a Magic fir me.

Shearwater is a sweet boat that would have done better than your Phoenix in wind plus it's happy in current. It's not nearly as fast as Peregrine but it cruises nicely.

I loved Peregrine and Shearwater enough that I'd consider another of either one and I don't need a boat.

Blackhawks were great in wind with the shallow vee keeping the keel in the water. I had an SS Special that was rated to carry like 350 or 360 I think. It would have been a good choice for you in wind. I'll find a pic.

 

[ABT]

Tandem boats have more beam, they tend to be deeper and longer. More flotation and more stability. The dunnage for overnight trips can be shifted forward. I usually paddled from the rear seat.
I would bring a kayak paddle along. When the wind comes up they can be helpful on bigger water.
Trimming a canoe is really important in the wind.

I like paddling tandems solo and I think you’re probably right, a loaded down tandem wouldn’t get pushed as much, and with more beam for stability it’s probably a safe ride in big water. Probably not very fast, but sure and steady.

and if I have to, I'll turn around in my seat, grab my kayak paddle, and fight my way forward against the headwind.

I almost brought a kayak paddle for that reason but figured my Starfire was a bit too wide for my wife’s 230cm rec paddle. If I’d been in the narrower Phoenix it likely would have helped a lot.

Something with low freeboard would be best.

That’s what I was thinking as well. I tend to like deep boats, but in that wind the much lower Peregrine or Orion seemed like they’d just have much less square footage to grab onto and push around.

FWIW, I currently plan to run the MR340 in 2027 with my Encounter.

VERY cool. I know several people who’ve done it, and I’ve talked to many of them about it and read a lot about it. I have a ton of respect for folks that want to do it. It’s a grueling race and most people that do it seem to like the suffering, at least a little bit. Makes the finish line sweeter, like they’ve really earned it (and they have). Even giving a race like that a shot is a heckuva thing on its own, let alone finishing. One of these days, maybe…
I should really try a Voyager or Encounter before ruling them out, lots of people paddle Wenonahs on those rivers and they probably know something (many something’s, more likely) that I don’t.

I would think most boats that have a straight-tracking keel line and enough freeboard to cut larger waves are going to be a handful in a stiff breeze.

Have you paddled in much wind in the Encounter? I was wondering if the zero rocker that makes it more difficult to turn adds any sort of wind resistance. I.e. if it’s hard to turn with a paddle, a headwind should have a hard time turning it as well, right? Are crosswinds worse than headwinds, with 17’ of length to push?

 

[kona]

fyi the Orion has roots closer to your phoenix. It is similar to a stretched out flash fire with some reduced stern rocker.

 

[Tryin']

Have you paddled in much wind in the Encounter? I was wondering if the zero rocker that makes it more difficult to turn adds any sort of wind resistance. I.e. if it’s hard to turn with a paddle, a headwind should have a hard time turning it as well, right? Are crosswinds worse than headwinds, with 17’ of length to push?

Nothing crazy yet. It is pretty easy to track "straight", but you definitely notice the lateral displacement over a stretch of paddling. I had it out on a lake with a lengthy fetch a couple weeks ago and paddled almost entirely on the left heading out, and entirely on the right coming back. Correcting a wayward yaw back into the wind is a multi-stroke endeavor.

As usual, rear quartering is the worst. The stern REALLY doesn't want to slide back into the wind.

 

[ABT]

I remember paddling my Peregrine alongside a buddy in an SRT in a big headwind. The SRT could not make forward progress but kept the paddler safe and dry while blowing side to side. Peregrine was able to punch through very slowly even with a few drops coming in over the bow from wind-blown waves. Peregrine is awesome in high wind but quite stubborn about turning so you can't just stick the bow into 5-8 mph current. I carried well over 275 in my Peregrine with me pkysca black lab and it never felt burdened. Peregrine is pretty fast; faster cruising than a Magic fir me.

Shearwater is a sweet boat that would have done better than your Phoenix in wind plus it's happy in current. It's not nearly as fast as Peregrine but it cruises nicely.

I loved Peregrine and Shearwater enough that I'd consider another of either one and I don't need a boat.

Blackhawks were great in wind with the shallow vee keeping the keel in the water. I had an SS Special that was rated to carry like 350 or 360 I think. It would have been a good choice for you in wind. I'll find a pic.

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That’s a pretty boat. Don’t know much about Blackhawks so thanks for the info, I’ll enjoy reading up on them.
Peregrine is a boat I feel like I shouldn’t really like. I like deep boats, lots of rocker/maneuverability, wider vs narrower, etc. But something about the design and that laid out front stem is very appealing to me. It “looks” fast, somehow reminiscent of the 80’s to me, and I’ve loved the Hemlock build quality I’ve seen in person. It’s just a cool boat.
You say you can’t just stick the bow out into the current in a Peregrine - with a good lean and angle can it still do a peel out or ferry? The big river required the same techniques as smaller rivers but even though the current was fast, the maneuvers felt much slower, almost lazy, but still required intentionality. And if you slip up it’s a big beast, you can’t let your guard down on it.