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barrel and harness...

I used to have one of those Black Feather harnesses. Worst uncomfortable harness I ever had. It calls for some tender McCrea minicellmanship to pad the back.
 
yellowcanoe said:
I used to have one of those Black Feather harnesses. Worst uncomfortable harness I ever had. It calls for some tender McCrea minicellmanship to pad the back.
Click to expand...

Well thanks I guess there, eh? Another project for my plate.

Our 60L barrel has a Kondors Outdoors harness. I would rather wear a bridel, or, wearing that horrible thing, maybe a ball gag.

The harness strapping and fabric around the barrel is, meh, ok, the shoulder and waist straps padded, though not well, and the back of the barrel against the spine has a, I just measured, 10 x 12 inch piece of 3 8[SUP]th[/SUP] inch minicel as padding low on the barrel. Why even have bothered, and seriously WTF?

That rounded barrel shape against the spine is like some medieval torture, so the 60L barrel rarely gets used. But I do like barrels, and there have been times that 60L would have been handy.

Sounds like a project, and could be an easy fix. A few pieces of thick right triangular minicel, rounded barrel shaped on the long side to build out a flatter surface, a rectangle of something light, stiff and maybe a bit pliable glued atop that, some additional padding on that for against the back comfort.

I got a whole box of leftover minicel triangles, and plenty of foam for back padding. I need to think some on the light, stiff and pliable. Maybe the backboard from a trashed internal frame pack.
 
I have an Ostrom harness on my 60 liter barrel and its very comfortable once I get the dang thing up and on me. Alas that harness is no longer available ( the Ostroms dared to retire).. But with a McCrea revision this harness could be a good buy for someone here.
 
I'm almost always wearing a pfd when I'm carrying barrels (30l or 60l) and also my 115l dry bags since they usually have some hard & sharp edges inside. I've had a few different harnesses none were very comfortable without the pfd although the Eureka I've been using in recent years is reasonable (starting to fall apart from UV damage). The first one I had was the Blackfeather in that ad, it was the worst of all of them.

One would be better off with a cheap North 49 harness.
 
recped said:
I'm almost always wearing a pfd when I'm carrying barrels (30l or 60l) and also my 115l dry bags since they usually have some hard & sharp edges inside.
Click to expand...

I do love me a well designed 115L dry bag portage pack, and try to fill them so that I have a gear cushy layer at my back. That giant dry bag usually contains my sleeping bag, pad, clothes, tent and tarp. If I think about it when packing, admittedly not always, I can arrange some comfy gear at my back in the weight distribution.

I have done the same PFD padding with that gawd awful 60L Kondos barrel harness. Although, in full disclosure, the 60 has been used most often as an over weighty food barrel on family trips, and I have left it to one of my sons to wrestle with.

The PFD barrel cushion offers less of a spine torture, but it is still a round barrel surface on my back, and tends to shift awkwardly, and abruptly, if I have to lean sideways. My elder balance sucks, and that lean shift often occurs exactly when I most do not want 50 or 60 lbs of weight helping tip me over.

As soon as I am done with a couple of shop projects I am going to tackle a more stable and comfortable arrangement between my back and the curved surface of that 60L barrel harness.

The simplest thing might be, and may be, to marry the Kondos harness strapping with a decent mil spec surplus or other pack frame.

I do have a well travelled 40 year old external frame Jansport backpack that has seen both a lot of days, and better days. It will likely never be used as a gigantor volume backpack again, but it might yet have another life resurrected.
 
While they do look nifty, most of the barrel harnesses are lacking comfort. That big round thing pressing into you spine is a real downer.

My solution has been to go with what has worked for me forever, despite the conventional wisdom (???) that these things are better. I use an external frame rucksack. With the barrel mounted on that, either inside a pack of some sort, or just on its own. No more nasty round thing in the middle of the back. Now, we do have 115 litre dry bags, and like Mike, I find them to be really great. Unless you have an unbalanced or poorly packed load in them. That is where the packframe shines. You can Rube Goldberg the load together and it will still be comfy as long as you keep the weight within reason.
Unfortunately my favourite frames are no longer made, and in high demand by serving soldiers, so I alter cheap ones when I can find one at a yard sale. They still work. Think outside that box and you can lose the barrel harnes blues. The blue framed one in the picture is a modified cheap one. And yes, that is a 30 litre barrel, but a 60 will fit without the bag.

Christine
 

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As soon as I have time to make an other wanigan, there won't be anymore barrel in my life, I hate barrels with a passion. They are a pain in the but and are not bear proof... So what is the point??
 
I am trying to understand this infatuation with barrels. I have been on 15+ canoe trips of over a week and never used or saw a use for one. I think I only saw 2 being used by other groups in Quetico.
 
Canotrouge said:
As soon as I have time to make an other wanigan, there won't be anymore barrel in my life, I hate barrels with a passion. They are a pain in the but and are not bear proof... So what is the point??
Click to expand...

Admitting the downsides of being uncomfortable with a crappy harness, and never reducing any smaller in rigid volume then when they started, the points in barrel favor to me. . . . .

Hard sided so foodstuff do not get squashed or squished. OK, a wannigan has that same advantage.
Far more leak proof than a dry bag. Or a wannigan.
Not bear proof, but seemingly nibble proof by Rodetia. I have had screw top buckets chewed to pieces around the lid by squirrels and chipmunks, and seen too many dry bags and packs with Whats that odor gnawed holes, even ones hung from a line.

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/C...ip/P4241902_zps099dccf1.jpg.html?sort=2&o=130

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/C...ip/P4251914_zps5bf2cce9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=142

Roll top dry bags are not waterproof for long if submerged. A barrel with a properly sealed and seated lid is. I have done the leak comparison test with our dry bags, screw top buckets and blue barrels. The barrels win hands down.

That leak proofieness seal probably makes a barrel less Come nibble little critter odoriferous. And less of a Come bust in big critter attractant.

As long as I can comfortably carry it, and it fits in the boat how and where I want it, I will always take a barrel appropriately sized for my food and cookware storage when tripping.

If the smaller blue barrel does not fit, as in some of the decked canoes, I will happily take a couple of the Cur-tec wide neck screw top drums. Those are equally leak proof, have never been nibbled or gnawed, and two of the 10L Curtec drums fit nicely inside an old internal frame pack for comfy carry.

https://www.curtec.com/en/products/drums/wide-neck-drums/detail/wide-neck-drums-10-litres
 
Coloradomike said:
I am trying to understand this infatuation with barrels. I have been on 15+ canoe trips of over a week and never used or saw a use for one. I think I only saw 2 being used by other groups in Quetico.
Click to expand...

If you don'T do ww then a barrel is useless... If on the other hand you run class II III III+ rapids, a barrel have its place for some... Not for me...
 
Mike McCrea said:
Admitting the downsides of being uncomfortable with a crappy harness, and never reducing any smaller in rigid volume then when they started, the points in barrel favor to me. . . . .

Hard sided so foodstuff do not get squashed or squished. OK, a wannigan has that same advantage.
Far more leak proof than a dry bag. Or a wannigan.
Not bear proof, but seemingly nibble proof by Rodetia. I have had screw top buckets chewed to pieces around the lid by squirrels and chipmunks, and seen too many dry bags and packs with Whats that odor gnawed holes, even ones hung from a line.

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/C...ip/P4241902_zps099dccf1.jpg.html?sort=2&o=130

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/C...ip/P4251914_zps5bf2cce9.jpg.html?sort=2&o=142

Roll top dry bags are not waterproof for long if submerged. A barrel with a properly sealed and seated lid is. I have done the leak comparison test with our dry bags, screw top buckets and blue barrels. The barrels win hands down.

That leak proofieness seal probably makes a barrel less Come nibble little critter odoriferous. And less of a Come bust in big critter attractant.

As long as I can comfortably carry it, and it fits in the boat how and where I want it, I will always take a barrel appropriately sized for my food and cookware storage when tripping.

If the smaller blue barrel does not fit, as in some of the decked canoes, I will happily take a couple of the Cur-tec wide neck screw top drums. Those are equally leak proof, have never been nibbled or gnawed, and two of the 10L Curtec drums fit nicely inside an old internal frame pack for comfy carry.

https://www.curtec.com/en/products/drums/wide-neck-drums/detail/wide-neck-drums-10-litres
Click to expand...

Wanigans have everything a barrel have if it is properly built.... As for submersion, barrel are only good if you use a locking mechanism on the metal ring latch. if you just shut the barrel off and not lock the latch in some ways, water pressure can and will open them, I've seen barrels lashed into canoes, canoes get "pinned" to logjam or rock or strainer and first ting you know the barrel costs its lid and its contant!!!

Plus side of Wanigans is it is easy to port, easy to organise, you can sit on them and climb on them.... In my book they are far superior than a barrel if well made!!
 
Canotrouge and I are reading different books. ha.
But seriously, maybe I don't carry my barrels often enough, or maybe I don't carry them loaded enough, because I don't get the round barrel - flat back discomfort criticism. I suspect the harness makes all the difference. I will admit that they're less comfy on the carry than the luxuriously appointed SealLine 115L Pro Pack. Different price points too. The barrels seal like a dream. Or when I'm struggling with the finicky hasp it can be a bugger of a bad dream. But it does seal well. My main critique of them is a) they weren't made to look anything less attractive than an oversized Smurf Mason jar. Fugly. b) The idiot proof locking clasp/hasp/pissmeoffenoughtomakemegasp thingy needs an upgrade. Or maybe I'm an idiot. There is that possibility. ha. c) The hard plastic flip up handles are solid, but obtrusive. I think I'd much prefer grab handles of floppy rope or webbed belt, either with a soft rubber sleeve for hand comfort. d) The lid only serves as a lid. I like multipurposes to things. I think I know a guy who knows a guy who has plans for these lids, but that's another thread. Even my cooking pot lids also serve as bowls with folding handles. The real understated underappreciated beauty of packs is, that there's no lid to damage or lose. The (sewn or welded seamed) one piece pack is always entirely whole. Lose or damage a barrel (or wannigan) lid and you're screwed. They are now open containers, until you give them lids.
Like I say, the barrel seals well, and carries well when paired with a decent harness. There are no rules against sitting on them.
I can't critique the wannigan, not owning any. Maybe I should make one, since I do have access to the tools and a warm work space.
 
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I've only used a barrel one time and I quite liked it, the harness wasn't bad but I think if I owned a barrel I'd use an external frame pack to lug it around rather than purchase a dedicated barrel harness. I'd imagine the same would apply to a wannigan if you're not inclined to tump it, strap it to a nice frame and portage in comfort... relative comfort anyway.
 
It goes without saying that locking the latch on a barrel is a given in raccoon country. I don't mind carrying the barrel. A good harness keeps it tight to my back and appropriately padded it is not painful..
I haven't figured out how to carry a York Box comfortably and still portage a solo canoe at the same time. I haven't seen harnesses for boxes
The advantage of the box is it is not prone to rolling in the bottom of the boat nor on shore should some animal want to play with it. True barrels are not comfortable for sitting which is why I think La Verendrye campsites use them for toilets. Ring around the arse.
Im not a fan of sitting on my York Box.. It tends not to want to open as the negative pressure inside keeps a fantastic suction.
 
I've never used a barrel or a wannigan in north country trips. But I don't travel where there are many other people, so there are not animals used to finding food from campers. I don't take fresh food and my camp hygiene is scrupulous. A barrel or wannigan seems to me like a lot of extra weight, but not having tried it, I am not judging. In the 10,000 Islands, however, the raccoons will chew through anything to get water and water must definitely be in a hard sided container. We just use a cooler and lock it with locking tie down straps. It's also nice to have cool water on blistering and suffocatingly hot days. I suppose the coons could gnaw through the straps, but I rarely see coons where we go. Again, fewer people, fewer raccoons. The cooler definitely makes a nice seat.
 
In the North there are sik siks.. They will rob you blind.. There are red squirrels. They will rob you blind. There are chipmunks. In Quetico I just opened the barrel to get something and a chipmunk dove in. If you travel in La Verendrye it is very heavily peopled. ( all things being relative in canoe camping areas).. Also there are a LOT of fishermen and while they are not supposed to use canot camping sites sometimes they do. I rejected one site because it was full of fish guts and skin and was a prime bear bait.. ( Oh yes there is bear bait there too..watch where you camp). La V is primarily a hunting park and one of the species hunted is bear. IMO ( only). bears could associate seeing humans as the same as seeing human with gun( and leave quickly!)

I have never used a cooler in the Everglades. We do use the barrel or a wannigan and carry the 200 lbs of water we need for two ( we are typically out for ten to twelve days) in hard sided water jugs.

You got pythons now less raccoons than there used to be. I have some pix of gangs of raccoons running around camp at Rabbit and Hog Keys. Two years ago one swam by us at Oyster Bay Chickee.

Shall we talk about the rats on Pavilion? One was enroute up the side of the barrel as I was getting at dinner. There was also a python in the potty there so I think the rat issue is less. Because of that rat and watching the shadow on my tent ( I was stupid enough to leave the fly off. this is not a good idea in the Everglades..You can get rained on even under a clear sky with dew)

Its not about YOU and YOUR camp hygiene that makes your experience enjoyable. Its about what OTHERS have done before you got there. Of course its up to YOU to leave the camp in a state so that others enjoy it too.. The YOU is a generality! Not an accusation..

I don't carry fresh food in the Everglades either.. Though we are having some clams and red sauce over spaghetti ( its in cans) I haven't experienced blistering hot Florida much. By April I am gone back home
 
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Ralph said:
I've considered trying barrels so it's interesting to hear the back and forth discussion. One of the barrel options I've been wondering about is the Vittles Vaults. Has anyone any experience with these?
https://vittlesvault.com/products/outback-50/
https://vittlesvault.com/products/outback-80/
Click to expand...

I have used their Gamma Lids on a five gallon bucket. I've not used these Vittles Vaults but have heard on another board that some have. I don't now how thick the walls are. Those that use them find a pack that can hold one or two

They have Gamma type lids. Make sure if you get these that you screw on the lid tight.
In the Everglades on one of our trips with the Gamma lidded bucket we had raccoon prints all over the lid and teeth marks on the lid. They did not get in.
 
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