Windy Conditions -- How Often?

[jm0278]

Hello all,

Winter sure is long when you've got a new canoe.

I finally got out for a paddle on a local lake yesterday. It was a nice day with a bit of wind, but not exactly what I would call "windy". To the point, how often do you find it is "windy" on your trips? (I have an ulterior motive for this question I'll get to shortly.) I was able to do two canoe trips last year. Both were in Algonquin and both had strong afternoon winds on more than half the days I was out. Having been a sailor and being well familiar with sea and shore breezes, it struck me that some version of the same effect was probably happening on these smaller lakes and rivers...as opposed to Lake Huron. The rivers in particular seem to be natural "wind funnels" with the trees forming a natural channel for the wind.

So here's the ulterior motive: since I have experienced strong winds on 100% of my trips (both of them), I bought a carbon fiber Werner Kalliste double-blade paddle in the belief that 1) 100% of my effort would go into forward motion and, 2) my direction of travel through the water would be straighter. I got to try out the paddle for the first time yesterday and was struck by two things. First, the amount of dripping on me and into the boat is way more than when I was doing hit-and-switch with a single. I occasionally need to stop kneeling and straighten out one or both legs and the extended leg(s) got soaked -- not a good feeling at this time of year. The second thing that struck me is how awkward the paddle is when I'm not using it. I did get the two-piece version, but now I've got three "paddles" to deal with when portaging because I'll always carry a single blade paddle in addition to the double-blade disassembled.

My experience yesterday did confirm the efficacy of the double-blade into the wind. But if my two windy outings were simply coincidental I'm likely to return the double-blade paddle. If, however, afternoon winds are as common on inland lakes and rivers, I'm going to keep the paddle and try waxing it or applying "Never Wet" to cut down on the drips.

All input is most welcome.

Jim

 

[snapper]

Jim - Just curious...what length is your paddle? The longer the paddle shaft, the less you need to lift the paddle; which can eliminate a lot of the dripping. I doubt you'll ever eliminate all the paddle drip but just an uptick in length can make it easier to deal with. I went from a 220 to a 230 with my pack canoe and it made quite a bit of difference. But, as the saying goes....YMMV.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

 

[yknpdlr]

My first true "solo" canoe was (is) a Hornbeck. Use of a double blade is pretty much required due to the sit on bottom nature of that boat. I traversed the Adirondacks in it (185 miles) in a single trip one hot July, and the double blade handled the windy big lakes in that small canoe quite well. But I immensely disliked the constant drips. Later I bought a PlacidBoat RapidFire, which came with a carbon double blade, because that is how that canoe is marketed and sold. The stock seat is situated low on the bottom. I asked for the highest seat possible to be installed (mounted on rails) so I could comfortably use a single blade. I am a canoe racer and have raced that boat in the Adirondack 90-miler a few times which unfortunately (IMO) requires use of a double blade according to the rules in that boat race class. However I have a spray cover that fits over the front half of the boat to shed drips. One year I paddled along beside another RF paddler (he was one of the PB boat shop workers). At the end of paddling 12 miles on the Long Lake section of the race, he had to stop to dump literally gallons of sloshing water accumulated from drips. A high angle stroke is generally used for racing with blade held close to the gunwale, which can cause drips to preferentially fall inboard. With my spray cover, I of course had no water to dump out.

Even though I admit that a double blade may be slightly advantageous in windy conditions, especially for inexperienced paddlers, I dislike using it very much for general recreational use. I am paddling a canoe, not a kayak, after all. If you know how to handle a good single blade paddle, there should be no need for the double and I no longer carry it for any reason, windy or not.

Speaking of windy conditions, terrain plays a big part. There is a favorite large Adirondack lake that i paddle often (Stillwater Reservoir). It can be deceptive from the protected launch on the western end if you begin to paddle its length toward the east on a calm cloudy day. I happens to be on the western side of the Adirondacks, and is long and narrow, narrowing more the farther you go. Its length is aligned E/W, and happens to be the first part of the mountains that the prevailing wind sees after traversing the Great Lakes. Waves can kick up quite strong and dangerous when the weather changes. In my younger years, I have been weathered in on nice sunny high pressure days that happen to have a strong wind from the west. Separately, Raquette Lake in the central Adirondacks has a large open E/W stretch on its northern half. Boats can easily get into trouble trying to traverse it on windy days.

 

[pblanc]

Wind definitely gets channelized down rivers and is often blowing with an intensity and in a direction quite different from the prevailing wind pattern for the area.

I generally prefer paddling hit and switch to using a double-bladed paddle when I need to power into the wind. The paddle drip is a big reason for it. However, I can maintain a slightly greater stroke cadence with a double-bladed paddle so the one time I might use it is if I anticipate having to paddle into a strong headwind for any distance.

 

[Guest]

Last year I bought a Swift Keewaydin 14 pack boat. The idea was to experience kayak paddling without giving up my canoe roots. It does make for a much easier go of paddling up stream and or into a headwind, but I was plagued by the drips as well.

I went to a longer paddle. That helped but did not entirely stop taking on water. This remedy comes with a tradeoff. A longer paddle reduces the drips while increasing the chance of shoulder injury as advised by the dealer.

My double paddle technique is improving which has helped. I still had a little water coming onboard.

I tested the final solution this weekend: a full nylon cover. The paddler and his gear remained dry the entire 13-mile trip. The boat looks pretty darn manly with the cover too.

Chuck

 

[jm0278]

Jim - Just curious...what length is your paddle?

It's a 230 which is the length recommended on the Werner website for the width of my Keewaydin 15.

I thought about going longer, but figured the trade-off would increased "sweep" on each stroke plus swing weight and air drag.

 

[gumpus]

jm0278 - I think it's just personal preference. Do you like paddling with a kayak paddle? Which skills do you want to develop?

With a single blade I can make forward progress in headwinds that generate waves almost big enough to swamp the boat. Plus for anything other than a direct headwind the single blade lets you hit one side repeatedly to help control the boat or change direction. Plus if I am near shore or any other obstacle and getting slammed with BIG gusts from the side then I want and need the control of a single blade. My preference is single blade but I assume that someone with well-developed double blade skills could be just as biased and content.

 

[jm0278]

I generally prefer paddling hit and switch...

My main issue with hit and switch was the zig-zag it added. I may not have been using proper technique, but paddling three strokes on each side in rapid succession before switching sure felt right. It's only a very approximate guess, but I'm thinking the bow may have swung five degrees to each side before switching to the opposite side. That probably didn't amount to a hill of beans in the overall scheme of things, but I'm still very new to paddling and don't want to "settle in" on a less than optimal solution. I'd rather avoid starting a bad technique than try to break out of it later.

 

[jm0278]

jm0278 - I think it's just personal preference. Do you like paddling with a kayak paddle? Which skills do you want to develop?

My preference is to use a single paddle and always have just a light breeze. What I don't know is how often I should expect more than light breezes. If fairly stiff winds are typical, I may well try to work with the double-blade more and address the drip issue. But if the winds on my two trips were somewhat unusual, I'd be very happy to get back to just carrying two single-blade paddles.

 

[jm0278]

Last year I bought a Swift Keewaydin 14 pack boat. [...] My double paddle technique is improving which has helped. I still had a little water coming onboard.

I looked hard at the pack boat style, but found I liked the non-pack Keewaydin 15 more. But if I had chosen the pack boat style, some sort of "pack boat spray cover" would be high on the list of possibilities.

 

[lowangle al]

Hi jm, I would think wind is pretty common no matter where you paddle, the good thing is the more you paddle in it the easier it becomes. I like to keep the wind on my off paddle side of the hull to keep switching to a minimum. Sometimes I take many strokes on the off wind side and only a few on the windward side to bring the boat around. Other times I can take many strokes on each side by using the wind to my advantage. This results in a larger zig zag, increasing distance, but I'm OK with it because I feel I'm getting more power in each stroke. If I want or need to take a straighter line I switch more often.

There are a lot of variables as far as wind speed and direction that you can't control. There are things you can control such as boat trim and your seating position in the boat, you may also benefit from a longer paddle length than you ordinarily use. Paddling in the wind is certainly doable with a single blade, it just takes practice to be efficient. Besides the problem with drips from the double blade it is also heavier than a single.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I see wind a lot of the time, especially in the afternoons. This time of year, wind is expected here all day, most days. Two out of the last three days on local streams were windy in the afternoon, which was also the time we got to where the water flattened out. The local lake that I paddle often gets wind most days, except in late summer. I still carry only single blades, as a rule. There are specific times that I will carry a double as a backup - the most usual example is a stretch of the Snake River that is almost a guarantee of stiff up-canyon winds in the afternoon. Stiff enough to push a canoe upstream against strong current. Even then, it usually doesn't get used.

It helps that my flatwater solo is a hard-tracker.

OTOH - the "wet" issue with a double blade doesn't bother me. It doesn't even come close to the soaking I get while poling with the modern method. I just consider that part of the deal. If wet means cold, I dress accordingly.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Depends on where you paddle; the topography , islands, depends on the fetch. Depends on arriving fronts. Depends on the time of the year. Ice just went out on my lake this morning. The wind is a breeze maybe 15 kph.. The water is just riffly. The water is way too dense yet for waves to form even though there is a pressure gradient between the cold lake( 4 degrees) and the ( yay) hot land ( 14 degrees).. Next week in the afternoons as the water warns a little and perhaps the air, even with a similar pressure gradient, the lake will be filled with three foot waves. The wind can only blow two ways.. The wind is funneled between two high hills ( about 300 m rise ) on both sides of the lake.

On Lake Superior there is a wind on and off switch. The switchman is almost always on duty and flips it somewhere between ten and noon.. Afternoons are rarely calm and you make miles while you can

The same for the Everglades though the winds there are often higher and the switch is thrown daily at 9:30 am. the water is shallower. This is double blade country as wind whipped waves in water two feet deep is difficult to paddle with a single ( the blade gets stuck). Also with a single and hit and switch ( when necessary) the wind tends to rip the single from your hand when in the transition.. Its no fun floating broadside in the Gulf of Mexico even for a moment with no paddle. And its quite hard to fetch the paddle. This is not theory.. It's a not fun experience I had this last winter.

Some of the time on Algonquin lakes you can adjust course so you can use a single without a J stroke.. nor the need to swap sides in the wind

I've not had issues with double blade drippage but have actually had more with single blade switching.. I have good drip rings on my doubles and the Zaveral single I use seems to fling drips in my face in the wind!

The wind is to be expected even in Algonquin. Opeongo is notorious as well as the three northern big lakes. Get going early. A dawn start and a lunchtime finish to the day makes tripping and wind avoidance so much easier.

I'll use a double as a preference in some situations.. another is in reflecting waves and clapotis.. Waves coming at you from more than one direction and the possibility of having to brace on each side almost simultaneously.

Its not about skill Single blading is harder in the beginning then as you get more adept to handing it it becomes much easier to learn harder moves and placements
Double you can start by getting from a to b badly but still get there ...but its wicked hard to master a powerful forward stroke. I have been trying since 1989. I learned solo canoeing in 1996 and was an ACA FreeStyle instructor in 1998.

 

[yknpdlr]

My home made custom fit over backpack nylon cover solution for my Hornbeck. Unfortunately, due to the sit on bottom configuration, a double blade is the only real paddling option. the cover with noodle rolls not only keeps drips out, but also keeps crashing waves out. I have a similar setup in my high seat RapidFire (sorry, no photo), in which I now only paddle with a single blade on one side at a time (not hit/switch), so no drip problem. At least the cover on the RF, if I install it, can keep the rain and rolling waves out.

 

[Sweetfancymoses]

Wind is common on my trips. I try to avoid the worst of it by starting early in the morning. My guess would be that a third of the time wind is an issue; that doesn't count favorable tail winds and windbound days. Quartering winds are my biggest nemesis. Nothing you do seems to help making it more enjoyable. My trips are mainly with a tandem partner; sometimes we have to paddle on the same side of the canoe. Problems are aggravated by soloing. Sorry, no experience with kayak paddles in a canoe.

 

[Guest]

I use a double paddle when going directly into the wind. For my solo canoes I like a 250cm. But if the wind is quartering at all, the single blade works much better to keep on course.

 

[Guest]

To the point, how often do you find it is "windy" on your trips? (I have an ulterior motive for this question I'll get to shortly.) I was able to do two canoe trips last year. Both were in Algonquin and both had strong afternoon winds on more than half the days I was out.

Um, a lot. Often. Maybe even more often than not. Curiously it seems, most often a headwind. WTF?

That is a large part of why I want to have some simple, compact downwind sail. Dammit, I am somehow mysteriously paddling into the wind most of the time. The rare occasions when I have a fortunate tailwind, hell yeah, give let me catch all of it I can use, I am owed that effortless travel.

When and where is it windy? Regularly on big open lakes. Routinely on desert rivers, where something about the topography produces upriver winds almost every day.

It is dang near always windy on exposed coastal bays. The last time I was on a windless coastal bay was in a dense morning fog, which provided some interesting lack of sensory perception, as well as some navigation difficulties.

The only regular headwind exception is during day trips on small riparian valley streams. Where, thankfully, it is only windy after every other serpentine twist and turn back into the wind. At least there is current.

If it is not occasioned by a front moving through, or just an otherwise pleasant stretch of day and night windy weather, mornings in any of those paddling venues is usually calmer.

Evenings to after dusk too. Sometimes. Pay no attention to that trip leader trying to sell you his wisdom that The wind always dies down at sunset. Eh, ok, not always. It was an unfortunate happenstance that one delayed night paddle out fell on a cloudy new moon night, where none of us could see as far as the bow before we slammed into some Spartina bank. Lots of Nope, not here, head further out calls as we crept our way along, trying to follow the shoreline.

Strategic wind route planning helps. Using any available wind shadow, if only for a brief sheltered resting spot to quaff some water or gulp a caloric boost, helps keep me going. When it is really windy I like having some sheltered place in sight, or at least visualized ahead on the map, even if miles away.

If only for a telling myself that I have some midway destination. Once I get behind that island I can freaking take a break or I can sneak west along the shelter of that peninsula while I rest is a mental help, and provides more of a target destination than just Keep on keeping on, Oh Gawd when will this end.

I look forward to rewarding myself at those sheltered rest breaks, floating in the canoe, having a drink and a snack and a smoke, doing some housekeeping in the canoe, looking at the map and wind direction, and planning my next series of moves like a chess match, me against the wind.

In that game of windage chess there is often is a wind ferry angle you can use to help eliminate correction strokes. Sometime the most direct route is not the easiest, or the fastest. There may be some zig zagging involved, especially to restful shelter.

Even on rivers sometimes the most obvious line is not the best. I generally like riding the bubble line on desert rivers, but that miles long outside curve is also where the upriver wind funnels strongest.

First, the amount of dripping on me and into the boat is way more than when I was doing hit-and-switch with a single.

No two ways about it, a double blade is inevitably a wetter ride. Twice the number of blades for one thing. The most annoying and unavoidable paddle drippage is when paddling into the wind close hauled or on a close reach, when drips fly off the raised blade and spatter my hat and sunglasses. Especially with a high angle stroke. PHBBBFT, spitting out a facefull of baywater, that never happened with a single blade.

Of course I never waggled a wet single blade into the wind above my head.

None the less I still love a double blade into a head wind.

Properly positioned drip rings help, but seconding Snapper, paddle length is critical. I am happiest using a low angle touring stroke with a long double blade paddle.

The whole Its a canoe and I use a canoe paddle is less a matter of proficiency than equipment preference. I am not even sure some of my open boats still qualify as canoe, most have fabric spray decks and sail mounts, some even have rudders. What the hell is that thing?

My open canoes are mostly in the 30 to 32 inch wide range and even a 250cm double blade, while useable, is a little short for me. 260cm is more my sweet spot, and those sometimes necessitate ordering a custom length.

With 25.5 inch gunwales and 12.5 inch depth with the Kee 15 you would not need anything nearly that long, but if the 230cm Kalliste, which is designed for a low angle touring stroke, necessitates using a high angle stroke it is going to be wet.

Curiously, I have noticed that a 230cm double blade is often the recommended length, for an incomprehensible variety of hull widths. A more vertical paddle stroke is more efficient in sheer propulsion terms. But dang a vertical double blade stroke is awfully wet in an open boat, and I it find more tiring than a tour stroke. It is surprising what a difference another 10cm can make.

About the inevitable drips, even with an appropriate length double blade, on shoulder season trips I am usually wearing rain pants and jacket for a windproof layer anyway, and on warm summer trips quick dry UV protective stuff, so I do not much care about paddle drips for most of the year.

if I had chosen the pack boat style, some sort of "pack boat spray cover" would be high on the list of possibilities.

Might still be. Seconding Chuck, a spray cover helps, even just a bow cover for lessened open hull wind catch, and for other accessibility features.

P1220458 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

P2160518 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I have been toying with the idea of making a really simple partial cover. Just the back end of a bow cover, a hull width by three foot long rectangle of waterproof fabric, pop riveted across the hull from my calves forward.

The gunwale edges in that cover vicinity are where my usual double blade drips fall when using a full sized bow cover. Add a couple of paddle shaft Velcro loops, with the paddle blades stuffed under a gear line or strap up front, would provide spare paddle security, and some connection points for a map case would make it complete.

A small cooler or food barrel would benefit from the shade cover on blazing sun trips. Not to mention my ankles and occasional bare feet on still pale shanked early summer trips. The worst in canoe sunburns ever have been to my newly exposed pale Scots whiteboy feet and ankles.

That little midships deck would fit in a softball sized ditty bag, and provide the drip protection, shade, paddle shaft lashing and map case attachment elements of a full bow spray cover in a smaller, less tapered and easier to DIY size.

I need to give that a try, using Deerflys idea of Seattle Fabrics heat sealable material to eliminate any sewing. Make a simple template with an inch of folded over to provide ironed together seam of heat sealed fabric all four sides, iron the seams together, hot nail melt some snap covers holes in the fabric and pop rivet the matching male snaps on the hull.

I got this, or at least I can visualized it, and it looks straightforward easy. Unfortunately both tandem canoes currently in the shop already have covers, so the experiment will have to wait for the appropriate solo hull.

 

[dougd]

Winds! When I paddle solo, nobody else with me the wind Gods take a break on me. The minute you add Hal or Riverstrider to the mix the winds turn and are nasty and of course are headwinds which is why we call Hal Headwind Hal. After more the 20 years of paddling with him it just never fails, headwind! Ya know it's bad when the little swirl made by your paddle keeps even with you and you have a current. Hal is legendary but Riverstrider is certainly catching up! Many times I try to quarter into the wind and current but that only works about a 1/4 of the time and also adds extra mileage and effort. Meandering all over the river to fight the winds just sucks.

The only hulls I use a double blade in is the Rob Roy and the Lettman, all the others are single blade, in open boats I really hate the water coming in off the double. And to add insult to injury everytime I bring a sail it's a headwind or no wind. Everytime I leave the sail home it's a tailwind.

dougd

 

[jm0278]

When and where is it windy? Regularly on big open lakes.

Um...unless you happen to own a 31' sailboat on Lake Huron. Then the winds routinely fade to nothing until you give in and fire up the diesel jenny to reach some spectacular anchor spot. Then, shortly after getting the anchor down and just starting to settle in, the wind kicks up and the boat tries to emulate a mechanical bull until you hoist anchor at zero-dark-thirty and head back for the marina. Not that this actually happened to me (more than once), of course...

I have been toying with the idea of making a really simple partial cover. Just the back end of a bow cover, a hull width by three foot long rectangle of waterproof fabric, pop riveted across the hull from my calves forward.

An interesting concept, except for the pop rivets...I'm still way too enamored of my beautiful new carbon fiber canoe to even think of drilling holes in it. But there is such a thing as adhesive backed velcro and I do still own a Sailrite heavy duty sewing machine. (Made my own bimini and winter cover for the sailboat way back when.) I probably still have enough Sunbrella to actually make the thing. And I really like the idea of something to hold the paddle blade(s) in place when not in use or when portaging.

But back on topic, I'm pretty sure I'd have to run the cover too far aft to catch where the drips are coming in. And, of course, a cover on the boat isn't going to stop the windblown drips that hit higher up. But I do really like the idea of a short "paddle blade pocket" up at the bow that is just long enough to hold the paddles in place. Hmm.

 

[boatstall]

Um...unless you happen to own a 31' sailboat on Lake Huron. Then the winds routinely fade to nothing until you give in and fire up the diesel jenny to reach some spectacular anchor spot. Then, shortly after getting the anchor down and just starting to settle in, the wind kicks up and the boat tries to emulate a mechanical bull until you hoist anchor at zero-dark-thirty and head back for the marina. Not that this actually happened to me (more than once), of course...

There are days when even having sail furled makes sense. I love my sailboats, and many a weekend, there is no other option due to wind conditions. I don't sail on windless days, and when the wind gets over 20, I don't paddle. Not saying that the wind has not surprised and compromised many a canoe trip, or that I have not been luffed into boredom.