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Recommendations for fixed blade knife

Essay on Balance and Handle Shape with Reference the the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter and the Golok Machete


I examined the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter ("BMB") at two stores yesterday and took some pictures of it in my own hand. (The two hand-less photos in this post are not mine.) I want to discuss handle shape and balance, because the knife has been criticized--ignorantly, in my opinion--in some early video reviews on these two aspects. More generally, we haven't discussed fixed blade balance points in this thread and how handle shape relates to functional balance.

The first thing that has been criticized is the "pommel" on the end of the BMB's handle, which some say should be belt-sanded off (!). You can see the pommel in this picture, and also note the first hole because that is the BMB's balance point:

DSCN2654.JPG


The second thing that's criticized is the size and placement of the BMB's palm swell. Some say that the palm swell should be smaller. Others say palm swells should always be centralized, and that the BMB's palm swell should therefore not be so far forward. Some say the handle is too narrow between the palm swell and pommel.

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A third thing reviewers are confused about is the balance point. Some say the the BMB is blade heavy, some say it's handle heavy and, in general, many reviewers say a proper knife should have equal balance between blade and handle.

In my opinion, these critics don't understand the design philosophy of the BMB, especially as it relates to the kinesthetics of manual tool control and to functional balance.

Let's start with the actual balance point of the knife. It's at that first hole in the handle. I measured it by passing some line through the hole and dangling the knife. It's handle heavy. The question is why the designer chose to make it that way. The answer relates to the purpose of a "bushcraft" knife and, very specifically, to the the palm swell and the end pommel of the BMB's handle.

What's the purpose of a so-called bushcraft knife? It's supposed to be a do-it-all-reasonably-well knife for camping or surviving in the woods, including the abilities to do fine woodworking as well as free swing chopping. Given these two particular purposes, there are two relevant general principles. First, it's easier to control a knife for fine woodworking if it's handle heavy, because a lighter blade is easier to move around in three dimensions than a heavier one. Second, it's easier to generate free swing chopping momentum with a knife that's blade heavy, because momentum = mass x force, and the blade-heavy knife has more mass at the swinging end.

Now let's think like a designer. Which of these two balance-opposite purposes is more important, woodworking (handle heaviness) or free swing chopping (blade heaviness). In my opinion, free swing chopping with a 4"-5" knife is so relatively ineffective that you would never do it if you had a saw or axe. But the assumption is that you don't. Even so, baton chopping with a knife should usually be more effective than free swing chopping. Therefore, I am of the opinion that free swing chopping is a less important purpose than woodworking. I believe that Shane Sibert, the designer of the BMB, felt likewise. And that's why he placed the balance to make the BMB handle heavy. The notion that knives should be equally balanced between blade and handle is superficial nonsense. It all depends on the purpose of the knife.

Once Sibert made the balance point decision for the BMB, the design choices for the palm swell location and end pommel follow logically and kinesthetically.

What's the purpose of a palm swell in general? It relates to grip feel. More specifically, the kinesthetics of manual hand tools has shown that, within limits, a thicker hand grip can give finer tool control. That's the reason for palm swells on tools: to increase fine movement control. The next design issue is where to locate the palm swell. In the sacred middle? No! -- not when the knife is fairly big and the more important purpose is woodworking. The BMB's palm swell is large to increase manual control, and it's placed forward so you can choke up on the handle, which makes the knife "shorter" and gets the heavy part behind you to lighten the blade even more. When choked up, the palm swell is perfectly located to fill the middle of the hand. Like so:

DSCN2653.JPG


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Next, what's the purpose of the end pommel? In general, it prevents your hand from slipping back off the handle when swinging or chopping with the knife. But there's an additional purpose for a handle-heavy knife such as the BMB. Remember, such knives are at a chopping momentum disadvantage compared to blade-heavy knives, which have more mass at the swinging end. But also recall that momentum = mass x force, so you can generate more chopping momentum if you increase the knife's swing velocity.

How does a designer do that? Well, let's look at the ancient design of a wood-chopping machete, the golok -- for example this one (which I own) by Condor:

Condor%2520golok%2520machete.jpg


What's that bulbous knob at the end of the handle? Aesthetics? No, it's where you grip way down low to increase swing velocity and hence chopping momentum. By holding the handle as low as possible, you increase the "length" of the machete and move the center of swing mass further forward. At the same time, you let the knife pivot in your hand to generate even more swing velocity. You can do this effectively and safely when you have a bulb or pommel at the end of the handle. (Using a wrist lanyard with proper cross-thumb wrap increases safety.)

This is why Shane Sibert narrowed the BMB's handle below the palm swell and put an aggressive pommel on the end. To help compensate for the knife's handle-heavy balance point, there a safe pommel stop at the end of the handle, which is narrow enough above the pommel to get a two-finger grip wrapped tightly around for a high momentum free swing chop. Thusly:

DSCN2655.JPG


That's my response to the internet critics of the BMB's balance point and handle geometry.

We've talked a lot about the Falkniven F1 and S1 in this thread. I strongly suspect both have the balance point more forward than the BMB and hence are relatively more blade heavy than the BMB. I say that because they have thicker blades than the BMB and Fallkniven has to remove metal off the top and bottom of the handle tangs to accommodate their 360 degree rubber-plastic grip. I'd love to hand test the comparative balance of the Fallknivens against the BMB, but I can't find any locally.

Of course, handle comfort is also a function of hand size. I'm 5-9 and wear a mens large glove size. Not choked up or down, but just holding the BMB in a neutral position, it felt very comfortable to me even with gloves.

DSCN2650.JPG


The purpose of this post was to be informational and educational about the design relationship between knife balance and handle geometry, not about whether I liked the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter. But . . . is that chain mail on my hand? . . . as I removed the BMB slowly from its sheath, I felt like King Arthur pulling Excalibur from the enchanted stone.
 
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I know I've contributed to the machete tangent, but I'd like to keep the focus on fixed blade knives with blades in the 3"-8" range. I'd be happy to participate in a separate machetes-for-canoe-tripping thread.
 
Hi Glenn, that BMB looks like a beautiful knife. Nice review. I sense you are bonding with it. Its just a matter of time now....:)

Essay on Balance and Handle Shape with Reference the the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter and the Golok Machete
We've talked a lot about the Falkniven F1 and S1 in this thread. I strongly suspect both have the balance point more forward than the BMB and hence are relatively more blade heavy than the BMB. I say that because they have thicker blades than the BMB and Fallkniven has to remove metal off the top and bottom of the handle tangs to accommodate their 360 degree rubber-plastic grip. I'd love to hand test the comparative balance of the Fallknivens against the BMB, but I can't find any locally.

I just placed my F1 on a straight edge to find the balance point for you. Its about 1 inch back from the front end of the handle/blade interface. In other words, its a nicely handle-heavy balance, so when you loosen your grip, the F1 wants to stay in your hand, i.e. it tips back into your hand and stays there. This makes sense for what it was designed for. You can hold it way back with a two finger grip and lanyard lock wrap, and chop with it, but of course its not a real chopper. I do chop small knots smooth with it when doing fine work smoothing poles, but otherwise, my axe is for chopping. You can easily baton it through wood, or baton it to cut fine or big notches, or even to fell a small tree by increment notch cuts.

I do not own the S1, but am guessing its balanced blade heavy? Hard to say exactly, I was surprised at how far back the F1 balanced. The handle tang, plus the extended pommel out the back end in both models, are heavier than what the photo may portray.

Keep the reviews coming, this is fun!
 
I sense you are bonding with it.

Well, the BMB has certain aesthetic connections to my second favorite shape in the world (the first being Sophia Loren in 1958). Really, what does this shape remind you of?

Benchmade_Bushcrafter_162.jpg


It would make sense that the Fallkniven S1, with a 5.1" blade, would be somewhat more blade heavy than the 3.8" F1 or the 4.43" BMB, though I suppose it could still be handle heavy overall.

I'm confused as to why the S1 is one ounce lighter than the BMB. The total length of the S1 is 9.7" and the blade thickness is 0.2". The BMB is smaller in both dimensions at 9.2" and 0.164". Yet, the S1 is 6.7 oz. while the BMB is 7.7 oz. The only explanations I can think of are that the BMB's S30V steel is heavier than the S1's VG10/440 laminate and/or the BMB's G10 handle scales are heavier than Fallkniven's Thermorun.

I wouldn't want a blade heavier than the BMB, now that I've tried it out. I've had thoughts of a 6"-8" blade for chopping-batoning, but those thoughts are now extinguished. If I want a real chopper on my next trip, I'll take my Condor Golok machete. It weighs 24 oz. and the sheath weighs 6.7 oz.
 
Well, the BMB has certain aesthetic connections to my second favorite shape in the world (the first being Sophia Loren in 1958). Really, what does this shape remind you of?

Benchmade_Bushcrafter_162.jpg

I'm very much enjoying this thread but I might have to draw the line now that we're being asked to take rorschach tests.

I'm also surprised to find out your second favorite shape in the world is the top of a hippopotamus floating in the water.

Alan
 
Great investigative work Glenn. I was all over that BMB till I saw the palm swell. Just goes to show the importance of handling something first before purchase. I'd be bias towards a more central swell, or none at all for my smaller hands. I still like that blade and handle though. The F1 is just beyond my $$ pain threshold, but worth every penny I bet. Hoop's working breakdown of that Fallkniven is very insightful and helpful. It took me years to accept the "you get what you pay for" approach to purchases. I'm leaning towards the Mora S http://www.workwearcanada.com/products/detail.cfm?product=1728. The low low price confuses me however. Am I getting a great deal or...just getting what I pay for? We'll see.
Thanks Glenn and Hoop.
 
Benchmade_Bushcrafter_162.jpg


You guys are Rorschach-impaired.

I finally can see the submerged hippo. Forget about the holes and the finger guard/choil bump. Focus on the smooth, sweeping, uninterrupted, sensual curve of the spine.

That shape used to dominate the kind of tripping I did in the 80's, and is very aesthetic to me.

MR_Caption_side.thumbnail%255B1%255D.jpg
 
Really, what does this shape remind you of?

Benchmade_Bushcrafter_162.jpg

I see a blood red canoe with recurve and high stems, sporting a giant knife blade sticking from the bow. Uh oh.

I believe you are a carrier Glenn, spreading the “Moreknives” sickness.

Having read through your explanations and detail about fixed-blade knives I am reconsidering the one I carry.

Well, I’ve been reconsidering it for a while. My sole tripping fixed blade choice is the (discontinued) Spyderco H1 Salt with a serrated 4.5” blade. It is essentially a big rescue knife and I know it is completely inappropriate for most camp chores.

Must. Resist.
 
I haven't bought anything. I've spent all day researching Bark River knives and have become enamored of the Aurora, especially the brand new Aurora LT in Elmar stainless steel. More on that in a later post.

Meanwhile, I've been emailing Benchmade to get proofs of a lasermark on a BMB. They will put just about anything you want--words, logos, pictures--for $5.00, but I wanted to know what it would look like. The lasermark department sent me proof within the day.

I realize lasermarking would reduce resale value. Anyone have any thoughts on blade engraving in general or how my proposal looks in particular. I chose that particular script font because I sign my name with G's like that. However, I'm wondering if my name is too bold compared the the Benchmark butterfly.

Fullscreen%2520capture%25201132015%252050848%2520PM.bmp.jpg
 
Jebus Glenn, you're a plague to my wallet! You keep throwing these little baubles in front of me.....are you working for Mastercard?
 
Well even if laser engraving with your name did hurt resale value (you're so famous on the interwebs it might even increase the value!) think of it this way: How many decades would you expect a nice knife like that to stay in use and how many hands might it pass through? All those people over all those years would look at that knife and wonder just who the heck Glenn Macgrady is and, although they might not know who you actually are, they would know you knew how to pick a darn good knife and would think warmly of you for that. You're building a legacy, Glenn, and for only $5!

Alan
 
heck, I'll change my name for that knife. Glenn, what else do you have kickin' around the place you can laser your name on I might like?
 
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Glad I could help spend your money. When you've tested out the Mora Bushcraft, perhaps you could post your opinions in this thread. The experience and research in these kinds of threads serve as reference material for future gear sluts.

Speaking of which, my credit card took your emoldening words to heart, and I ordered two Moras today because I just couldn't resist the ridiculously low prices I saw at SierraTradingPost with a 30% off coupon code--and I'm not even sure that either knife will end up as my primary fixed blade.

I ordered a Mora Swedish FireKnife (black/gray) for $18.16. It's stainless steel and has a Light My Fire FireSteel screwed into the butt of the handle. Note the second and sharper bevel at the tip of the traditional Scandi grind. One reviewer said this is to make the tip even sharper for cutting into vegetables. The blade is 3.75" (100 mm) and the knife weighs only 3.3 ounces (94 g). It may end up as my backup fixed blade in my ditch bag or I might even try attaching it to my PFD.

ImageGen.ashx

I then noticed that STP had the stainless steel Mora Companion (green only) at the ridiculous price of $8.75 at no extra shipping charge. So I put one of those in the order. The blade is 4.0" (103 mm) and it weighs 4 ounces (116 g). Some internet "bushcraft experts" use this knife as their primary fixed blade and have some interesting sheath modifications. I figure I can experiment with woodcraft and sharpening with this cheap knife. Maybe I'll use it as a kitchen knife since all of mine are ancient and dull.

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I'm going to fondle the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter in person later today at REI. I've been emboldened.

I got the two Moras today, exactly as pictured. The specs are in the links in my prior post. I haven't used them for anything yet other than cutting paper, avocados, oranges and cheese.

The Companion has a longer and thicker blade than the LMF. It also has a thicker handle. The Companion is also slightly sharper. In fact, it's the sharpest knife I have, all the others (folders) being in various stages of dulling. Out of the box, these Moras are the sharpest that I recall, compared against my Benchmades, Kershaw and Spyderco folders when new. But I have no idea how fast the Mora Scandi grind edge will hold its edge.

Both knives have a grippy rubber handles. Nice. The Companion is more comfortable to hold than the LMF because of the thicker grip. The holes in the LMF handle are slighly annoying because my fingertips rest there, and I don't understand their purpose. Neither knife is as comfortable to me in a side or reverse side grip as the Benchmade 162 Bushcrafter. Neither knife has any particular aesthetic appeal, which is important to me.

I wouldn't baton with either knife unless necessary, although I have seen plenty of people on YouTube doing it with Moras. The blades are too thin for a lot of abuse and the LMF blade is kind of short for batoning.

The LMF has a 90 degree sharp edge on the spine to scrape the short firesteel. It throws sparks but not in gobs. The spine of the Companion is rounded and doesn't throw sparks at all.

The Companion would be the better all-around camp and bushcraft knife, in my preliminary opinion, if you simply filed the spine flat to throw sparks. Then get a separate full length "Army" size firesteel.

The plastic sheaths on both are cheap looking but work well. The knives click in and don't fall out when shaken upside down. The Companion doesn't rattle in the sheath at all; the LMF does.

I'll use the LMF as a backup knife for canoe tripping and camping. Since I don't do those things very often, I'll keep the Companion as an everyday kitchen and house knife. It is indeed much sharper than any of my old kitchen knives.

I consider both Moras to be very good price values, most especially the $8.75 Companion, but neither satisfies my quest for a primary wood processing, bushcrafting and self-defense fixed blade. That will have to be a somewhat longer, blade thicker and aesthetic knife.
 
Well, my Mora came in yesterday. Smart-arse first impressions are as follows: it doesn't cut onions or tomatoes worth a dang. In fact, worst onion cutter ever. It's ugly as sin, and it's short, so it should be a good fit for me, especially when i paddle my asymmetrical canoes. I don't like the plastic sheath. It doesn't feel very stabby either. I haven't tried battoning with it or making curly fries out of wood, maybe this weekend.

So far, I'm sticking with my big Buck, that knife could scare the trunk off an elephant.
 
Pulled the Mora out of the sheath to show my wife this morning, imagine my disgust when I saw this....



The picture does not do it justice. The black coating is peeling off both sides and there are several major rust spots. I washed the knife and dried it after use last night. What the heck is going on? This knife is a piece of crape. I'll stick to the Buck which was only about 20 bucks more, and I'm going to contact the dude I bought it from and see if a refund is in order.
 
Memaquay, I see it's carbon, not stainless. Is that the issue leading to rust? The peeling you're noticing, is that a protective film on the blade? I was leaning towards an inexpensive ss Mora. Not sure how I'l spend my money now.
 
Pulled the Mora out of the sheath to show my wife this morning,

Whoa, whoa, whoa! We don't need to hear about that!

imagine my disgust when I saw this....


Oh, I see now. My bad.

Well that sure is disappointing. Wonder why the problem appeared so quickly for you when it doesn't seem to be a common complaint? Perhaps the acidity of the tomato took off any protective coating and there was still a little water when put back in the sheath? Even so you'd think it could do a little better than this. Disappointing for sure. Sure am glad you and Glenn are here to be our guinea pigs.

What made it such a poor onion cutter? Was it not sharp from the factory or is the blade angle too thick?

Alan
 
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