Kayak paddle length for wider canoe

[RTowner]

Looking for advice. I have an Old Town Discovery 133. It’s a bit over 40 inches wide at center. If I solo from the front seat facing backwards…wondering what length kayak paddle I would need? I’m about 5’10”. Unfortunately I don’t really have the opportunity to go out and try different lengths.

Appreciate any input!
Ryan

 

[wjmc]

Some guidance here:

How to Size a Solo Canoe Paddle

Many canoeists enjoy the solitude and challenge of solo canoeing. If that’s you, and you want to know how to size a solo canoe paddle, you’re in the right place.

www.bendingbranches.com

At 5'8" with canoe widths 29-32" I like my 260 cm paddle. You might want to go a little longer.

My paddle is a Bending Branches "Slice" - they don't seem to make it any more, but it is very similar to the "Angler Classic" listed in their Fishing Kayak selection.

 

[Tryin']

40"?! Dang.

I have two 280cm paddles, BB Angler Ace and BB Impression Solo. Great for a wide-beam Prospector and an OT Tripper. Little long for the 27" Encounter, but not bad.

I paddle low angle with a double, as i value a dry lap over efficiency/speed. Long shafts are the key to low-angle comfort. You can go shorter with high angle. 230-240cm seems common.

Angler Ace Snap-Button

Updated for 2023! The best overall value in kayak fishing paddles, the Ace combines the weight savings of a carbon shaft with the most durable blades available. New for 2023: Redefined, stronger blade. The new blade shape provides a smoother forward stroke with less chances for flutter, stiffer...

www.bendingbranches.com

Impression Solo

The natural progression from a single blade to double blades is made easier with the beauty and buoyancy of the Impression Solo. Perfect paddle for the lone canoeist looking to eliminate corrective strokes and the need to switch side to side whether in ideal conditions or windy conditions Solid...

www.bendingbranches.com

 

[BWCA66]

I bought an Oceanbroad adjustable that can be 240, 250 0r 260. I like it because I have a couple of different canoes I paddle solo.

 

[BigandSmall]

My solo canoe is 32" at it's widest with a fair bit of tumblehome. I'm just under 6'2. At first I though 260cm was good but after spending some time using a high angle lightweight 250cm I got used to it. My spare is also high angle and adjustable 240-260cm. Playing around 255cm feels pretty nice were I ever to order a custom fixed length. You did say any input so I shared this even if it's not super relevant.

 

[RTowner]

I bought an Oceanbroad adjustable that can be 240, 250 0r 260. I like it because I have a couple of different canoes I paddle solo.

Thank you. I see these on Amazon as the price is pretty low. Would you say the overall quality is good? I like the idea of adjustable to see what I prefer most. I’ve held carbon paddles that are so nice and light, but I don’t want to commit before being certain of the length I’ll need.

 

[Black_Fly]

First of all, a double canoe paddle is NOT a kayak paddle. Canoe paddles are longer. You’d be miserable using a 260-280cm paddle in most yaks. A big sit on top fishing yak might be the exception. Mostly, you could use a kayak paddle in a small canoe but not a double canoe paddle in a kayak. The yak seat would be too low, too narrow.

My wife made the mistake of bringing a 230cm yak paddle for our last lake trip. Poor girl was working herself to death, couldn’t keep up until I lent her my 260 (I was using the Badgertail). She won’t load the wrong one again.

Where you sit in the canoe makes a difference, as do the seat heights and your physical attributes (in addition to the canoe’s width).

The water you’re paddling can make a difference too. Narrow, intimate, or fast streams could require a shorter paddle. Experimentation is your friend. My wife is 5-5 and uses a 250 in a solo canoe on a fast stream but a 260 on the lake. I’m 5-9 and take a 260 for windy lakes also.

Basically, you need to experiment. Start with a 250-260, go up to a 280 if there’s too much drippage, or you feel too much like a wind mill. Good luck!

 

[Gamma1214]

First of all, a double canoe paddle is NOT a kayak paddle.

Ah, but they are... making a yak paddle longer makes it easier to use in a canoe but it's still just a long yak paddle. Not that I'm judging... using a kayak paddle in a canoe is certainly better than not getting out at all.

(lipstick your pig all you like... it's not my pig)

 

[tketcham]

First of all, a double canoe paddle is NOT a kayak paddle. Canoe paddles are longer. You’d be miserable using a 260-280cm paddle in most yaks.

That's an awfully broad statement with a narrow threshold between the two. Call it what you like but a double-blade paddle is a double-blade paddle regardless of length or blade shape. This thread has a lengthy discussion but no clear consensus. It's like trying to break out two broad categories of single-blade paddles based on length alone.

 

[Black_Fly]

That's an awfully broad statement with a narrow threshold between the two. Call it what you like but a double-blade paddle is a double-blade paddle regardless of length or blade shape. This thread has a lengthy discussion but no clear consensus. It's like trying to break out two broad categories of single-blade paddles based on length alone.

Blades are also shaped different, but you mean like a sword and a knife? Like a limousine and a car. Like a musket and an AR15? Like a center and a guard? Like a dock and a pier? Like spaghetti and macaroni? Double blade canoe paddles have evolved over hundreds of years. They are distinctive.

 

[tketcham]

They are distinctive.

OK, but I'm not convinced and don't need to be because I don't use a double-blade paddle for canoeing. I may decide to use one if I'm no longer able to comfortably use a single blade paddle. Just for discussion, this is what Joe Moore at Placid Boatworks says about double-blade canoe paddles. He includes a Werner double-blade paddle as an example of what to consider. I looked at Werner's selection and found a few that seem to match the paddle he shows. None of their double-blade paddles are specified as canoe paddles, though. If you have an example of a specific double-blade canoe paddle it would be interesting to compare them.

 

[Neophyte]

Bending Branches makes a canoe specific double bladed paddle. It comes in 260 and 280. I’ve never used one so I couldn’t say what the difference is.

Impression Solo

The natural progression from a single blade to double blades is made easier with the beauty and buoyancy of the Impression Solo. Perfect paddle for the lone canoeist looking to eliminate corrective strokes and the need to switch side to side whether in ideal conditions or windy conditions Solid...

www.bendingbranches.com

 

[Black_Fly]

Bending Branches makes a canoe specific double bladed paddle. It comes in 260 and 280. I’ve never used one so I couldn’t say what the difference is.

Impression Solo

The natural progression from a single blade to double blades is made easier with the beauty and buoyancy of the Impression Solo. Perfect paddle for the lone canoeist looking to eliminate corrective strokes and the need to switch side to side whether in ideal conditions or windy conditions Solid...

www.bendingbranches.com

They work well. I use a 30* cant. The impression is a tad weighty, but I didn’t care back then. Wife paddled a Prism through Woodland Caribou with one. She didn’t seem to mind. I was in an Encounter and feel like the blade width was useful in the big boat.

 

[tketcham]

Black_Fly said:
First of all, a double canoe paddle is NOT a kayak paddle....They are distinctive.

Bending Branches makes a canoe specific double bladed paddle.

I checked the BB website and the Impression Solo isn't specifically a canoe paddle. In fact, it doesn't even show up if you use any of the canoe paddle filters, it just shows up among all the single-blade paddles under the "Canoe" heading. But if you look under the "Kayak Fishing" or "Kayak" headings and use one of the filters, there it is, so they consider it a kayak paddle. So if it's 240 cm it's a kayak paddle but if it's 260 cm it suddenly becomes a "double-blade canoe" paddle. To make things even more confusing, if you use their paddle sizing chart, if you're in a canoe under 35" in width and are 5' 5" or under you'll need to buy a "kayak" paddle because they don't sell an Impression Solo "double-blade canoe" paddle in that size. You can buy one, but it's called the Impression kayak paddle. As far as I can tell, the only difference is the range of lengths offered under the "Canoe" vs "Kayak" categories, the blades are identical as shown.

Added: I don't mean to imply that BB is the only company that does that. I found other examples of kayak paddles that were also called "double-blade canoe" paddles.

And for comparison of how paddles are marketed, I looked again at some of Werner's double-blade (kayak) paddles and they have a few models with a blade that looks very similar to the Impression Solo. I found only one kayak paddle that offered lengths over 240cm and they didn't call it a double-blade canoe paddle. So, it appears that it's not the blade style that makes the difference between double-blade canoe and kayak. Which gets back to the question, is the difference between a double-blade canoe paddle and a kayak paddle narrowly defined by a range of lengths offered by particular manufacturers? That doesn't make sense and they're missing out on the overlap.

The difference is between a single-blade or a double-blade paddle, regardless of length or which watercraft you use it with. Let canoeists decide which double-blade paddle works best for them in their boat and buy accordingly. I think paddle manufacturers would be better off marketing their products using that distinction now that more and more people are using a double-blade paddle in their canoe. It would also help in getting rid of the antiquated stigma attached to using a "kayak" paddle for canoeing.

PS: RTowner, my apologies for side-tracking your post a bit, but I think it's important to point out discrepancies and confusing information coming from manufacturers and retailers. May your double-blade paddle quest be successful.

 

[Gamma1214]

They are distinctive.

Like a Whitetail deer and a Moose... Both are Cervids, but making a deer larger does not make it a Moose.

It would also help in getting rid of the antiquated stigma attached to using a "kayak" paddle for canoeing.

Why get rid of it? I really don't have any issue with the stigma...

These conversations are fun but nobody's mind is going to be changed and there's really no need for them to be. If you want to paddle your canoe with a kayak paddle (or ride your Harley with training wheels), go for it. Sure, we might look upon you with some disdain or pity but, at the end of the day, should you care? I'd say no; you do you and don't worry about the approval of others... Just fly that freak flag proudly.

 

[Black_Fly]

I’d like to see someone using an Impression in a kayak. They’d be better off tying flippers to their elbows.

Anyone who’s been solo on a remote windy lake in a loaded canoe will appreciate having that tool in their toolbox. In addition, many of today’s solo canoes are designed for double blade use. I don’t care for some of those hulls, but I’m not provincial, small minded, or nostalgic about old dead men who made do with tree trunk boats and blades, and didn’t even have seats in their canoes. I wouldn’t be paddling if I was an 18th century purist. Seats are good. Light hulls good. Double blades good. It’s all good, all part of canoeing.

 

[RTowner]

Thanks for sharing the links. The Bending Branches paddle is so nice! I think my plan will be to go with a cheaper option to see what I prefer lengthwise, so I can make a well informed purchase on a nicer paddle down the road.

 

[Neophyte]

I checked the BB website and the Impression Solo isn't specifically a canoe paddle. In fact, it doesn't even show up if you use any of the canoe paddle filters, it just shows up among all the single-blade paddles. But if you look under the "Kayak Fishing" or "Kayak" headings, there it is. And to make things even more confusing, if you use their paddle sizing chart, if you're in a canoe under 35" in width and are 5' 5" or under you'll need to buy (wait for it) a kayak paddle, only now it's called the Impression paddle. The only difference is the range of lengths offered under the "Canoe" vs "Kayak" categories, the blades are identical as shown.

So I actually found the Impression under Canoe>Solo Canoeing. I thought that was a weird place for it, but I was at work so I didn't have much time to read through everything. Now I'm even more amused that they have identical paddle with two different names for the length.

Back to the original question, I bought an adjustable canoe paddle to figure out the length I needed before I pulled the trigger on something better. I found the length I needed so that was great, but it's a miserable paddle. It looks like Wonitago makes a double-blade on Amazon for cheap that adjusts from 240-260, that might be a good place to start. Just be prepared for the experience of using a cheap paddle.

Just fly that freak flag proudly.

It’s all good, all part of canoeing.

Yep, just get out on the water and have a good time. At the end of the day that's all that matters.

 

[Cruiser]

OK, but I'm not convinced and don't need to be because I don't use a double-blade paddle for canoeing. I may decide to use one if I'm no longer able to comfortably use a single blade paddle. Just for discussion, this is what Joe Moore at Placid Boatworks says about double-blade canoe paddles. He includes a Werner double-blade paddle as an example of what to consider. I looked at Werner's selection and found a few that seem to match the paddle he shows. None of their double-blade paddles are specified as canoe paddles, though. If you have an example of a specific double-blade canoe paddle it would be interesting to compare them.

If you look on the Werner site, there are two categories for Touring paddles (not including Kids) "High Angle" and "Low Angle" ... these are designed for the stroke you are going to use. There are fundamental differences in the blade shapes to optimize the paddle to the stroke ... they are not the same.
Staying with Towners boat as the example, since this is his question .... the boat is pretty wide and using a high angle stroke can be made to work IF you are prepared to move side to side and take water and likely work yourself to exhaustion quickly. Because you can do something does not a necessarily make it the best option. The low angle stroke, with a much longer blade provides a much more sustainable and efficient stroke, no water drips. You stay in one position and move the paddle through a much shallower arc, saving a lot of energy in the process.
You don't select so much based on "canoe" or "kayak", but on the stroke you intend to use, when selecting the double bladed paddle. As the craft get wider and the seat gets higher, the stroke style evolves from high angle to low angle, just as a part of the paddling mechanics. Obviously, it also matters on where you paddle from as well, stern paddlers have to consider canoe shape, as the canoe get wider in front of them, you need the paddle far enough out to clear the middle of the canoe.
For a 40" wide boat (assuming centre seating) you really need to get the longest paddle you can get (at least 280 cm) and learn about using the low angle stroke.

 

[Cruiser]

I’d like to see someone using an Impression in a kayak. They’d be better off tying flippers to their elbows.

Anyone who’s been solo on a remote windy lake in a loaded canoe will appreciate having that tool in their toolbox. In addition, many of today’s solo canoes are designed for double blade use. I don’t care for some of those hulls, but I’m not provincial, small minded, or nostalgic about old dead men who made do with tree trunk boats and blades, and didn’t even have seats in their canoes. I wouldn’t be paddling if I was an 18th century purist. Seats are good. Light hulls good. Double blades good. It’s all good, all part of canoeing.

Amen