Hey thanks for mentioning it! I had missed that one in my excavations of the forum threads. I'm interested in how you felt about the robo-bevel, and what made you use the plane alone for the Freedom 17? I have considered giving it a try as I have limited shop space and setting up a router (after getting one in the first place: all I have currently is a laminate trimmer, which I do not think would be up to cove and bead work) will be a challenge for me. Space-wise, that is.
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What to ask for in red cedar for stripping?
- Thread starter ThatPaddlingGuy
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These are a couple of the first threads that I pored over when I recently joined the forum, Brian! I enjoyed both and gleaned useful tidbits throughout. Inspiring stuff, and I came to them because I was specifically nosing around for information on lighter builds etc! I deeply appreciate how much knowledge is shared through forums like this.
Cheers!
Yeah, they are but sadly that's a result of the hardness and oils that make it such a good alternative to cedar
Bead and coving 1/4" thick strips, doesn't take much for a router. It is the best way to go !
A 7 1/4" Skilsaw, and a router will save you money, and time. Actually a lot of extra sanding too.
I started with a Skilsaw, cause I couldn't afford a table saw. In reality ? The Skilsaw is a far better way, to get uniform strips. Uniform strips is what you want.
My first three canoes, I hand beveled the strips. A lot of extra work, extra glue, extra sanding ( glue mostly) And gaps between the strips. Then I bought a cheap Sears Craftsman 1/8th horse power router. I used that router for at least 10 canoes. I upgraded, but that cheap router is still able !
The Skilsaw will save you a boat load of money, as opposed to buying a kit !
The router, will make it easier to assemble, reduce the amount of glue that is the real pain to remove, especially on the inside.
Skilsaw, and Bead and cove your strips, is by far the best way to go!
Jim
A 7 1/4" Skilsaw, and a router will save you money, and time. Actually a lot of extra sanding too.
I started with a Skilsaw, cause I couldn't afford a table saw. In reality ? The Skilsaw is a far better way, to get uniform strips. Uniform strips is what you want.
My first three canoes, I hand beveled the strips. A lot of extra work, extra glue, extra sanding ( glue mostly) And gaps between the strips. Then I bought a cheap Sears Craftsman 1/8th horse power router. I used that router for at least 10 canoes. I upgraded, but that cheap router is still able !
The Skilsaw will save you a boat load of money, as opposed to buying a kit !
The router, will make it easier to assemble, reduce the amount of glue that is the real pain to remove, especially on the inside.
Skilsaw, and Bead and cove your strips, is by far the best way to go!
Jim
I found the length of the RB made it more difficult to follow tighter contours. I I've only built 2 and both were done beveled and I'd do it again. Note that not every strip needs it. Place the plane on top of a strip where it contacts a form. Tip the plane over so that it's leaning on the form. Is there a gap between the base of the plane and the strip? No? Then no bevelling required. Yes? Plane in that location until the gap disappears. Move to the next form and do the same. Then blend the 2 jointed areas together between the forms. Sounds like a lot but it takes seconds. And it's quiet. And it makes cute little shavings.
Did you scar up the tape on the forms, with the bevel?
Did your strips slip out of alignment at all ?
I'll throw in the ease of butt joining strips, is much easier with bead and coved strips.
Bead and coving your strips, solves, these issues, as well as leaving far less glue squeeze out, that needs to be scraped or sanded later.
Just my experience.
Jim
Yes and yes. I used tape to repair the scars and align misbehaving strips and the wailing chair was not called into service.
Bead and cove is the standard. No argument. I have personally found it to be unnecessary and I think it not unreasonable to share my experience. Everyone can make their own choices with the information we provide.
Bead and cove is the standard. No argument. I have personally found it to be unnecessary and I think it not unreasonable to share my experience. Everyone can make their own choices with the information we provide.
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I appreciate both of you guys chiming in, Scratchy and Jim! I definitely see the value of bead and cove, and the only downside to it that i see is the necessity of a workspace long enough to run the full strip length through. And I guess theoretically a small increase in material use because of the strips nesting into each other, but that doesn't seem like it would be more than an extra strip or two over the whole hull.
Bead and Cove makes so much sense when you visualize how the strips nest together over contour. That said I've been curious about robo-bevel and scratchy's method of using the plane alone because I also find simple low-tech solutions very appealing. Something nice about making a pile of shavings, quietly, with just the scrape of a plane and the smell of cedar.
That said if I have my way and am able to build multiple boats over the years, I will most certainly try both methods.
Bead and Cove makes so much sense when you visualize how the strips nest together over contour. That said I've been curious about robo-bevel and scratchy's method of using the plane alone because I also find simple low-tech solutions very appealing. Something nice about making a pile of shavings, quietly, with just the scrape of a plane and the smell of cedar.
That said if I have my way and am able to build multiple boats over the years, I will most certainly try both methods.
Mr Guy,
It appears we must be related, we have the same last name! Haha
I had used straight edged strips for over 30 years of strip building, never a problem of gaps...BUT...
When I first tried cove and beaded strips, I was shocked and amazed at how much easier it was to get a fair hull. Especially with the strip alignment between the forms, cove and beaded strips just snap into alignment.
Less excess glue and way less sanding. Fewer staples too, if you're going that route.
I look forward to seeing your build, good luck and enjoy the process.
It appears we must be related, we have the same last name! Haha
I had used straight edged strips for over 30 years of strip building, never a problem of gaps...BUT...
When I first tried cove and beaded strips, I was shocked and amazed at how much easier it was to get a fair hull. Especially with the strip alignment between the forms, cove and beaded strips just snap into alignment.
Less excess glue and way less sanding. Fewer staples too, if you're going that route.
I look forward to seeing your build, good luck and enjoy the process.
Yes the Bead and cove requires more space. I simply do it outside.
I do it in the driveway, and sweep up the dust. They go around the outside of the house for bug deterrence.
Another benefit ! Ha !
Good luck in what ever way you choose!
The process is fun, especially when you see the hull take shape on the forms !
A couple of tips I'll share ! Be minimal with the glue, excess, is just extra work .
I went with Gorilla glue on this last build, over Titebond III, as Gorilla glue is harder and sands easier.
Good to research the building process, I keep learning new things, with every build, you will too !
Jim
I do it in the driveway, and sweep up the dust. They go around the outside of the house for bug deterrence.
Another benefit ! Ha !
Good luck in what ever way you choose!
The process is fun, especially when you see the hull take shape on the forms !
A couple of tips I'll share ! Be minimal with the glue, excess, is just extra work .
I went with Gorilla glue on this last build, over Titebond III, as Gorilla glue is harder and sands easier.
Good to research the building process, I keep learning new things, with every build, you will too !
Jim
I personally prefer the block plane method as it removes at least 2 steps (beading one side, then resetting and coving the other), and I find it's actually a little faster because there's no swapping pieces end to end to maintain the "good" side out. I find that the vast majority of strips lay fine and the bead or cove is planed off anyway where it's needed most- in the chines and fairing them into the stems because of the need to alter the width to match the angles, as for the staples I find small wedges under a band clamp actually work better to lay the strips flat to the forms
But as they say- there's more than one way to skin a cat... It's up to you to decide which works for you
But as they say- there's more than one way to skin a cat... It's up to you to decide which works for you
When posts are read, there is a high chance of not really getting the idea conveyed ... what we are thinking doesn't always make it clearly to the screen.
Both methods (C&B, Flat Planed) will get the job done and will require a certain skill set to make that happen. I don't believe there is a one solution to making stripping easier, but if there was one, B&C is close. It is a bit more work up front, but once that is done, stripping is pretty much the same on any hull. Flat strips would seem to be a faster method on SOME hulls, something relatively tame in the lines and curves, like a Kipawa or Freedom 17, but if you look at something with tumblehome and curves, like the KeeWaydin series, the skill set required for the flat strips gets to be very important ...
The point I am trying to make here is that it is important to choose your build method(s), based on what is going to work best in your circumstance, your build and skill set. For a first build, I would be inclined to recommend the B&C, simply because it is more verstatile and straight forward to execute on a greater variety of builds (IMO). By all means, once you have one under your belt branch and try new things, but there is enough challenge on that first one, with out adding more.
Brian
Both methods (C&B, Flat Planed) will get the job done and will require a certain skill set to make that happen. I don't believe there is a one solution to making stripping easier, but if there was one, B&C is close. It is a bit more work up front, but once that is done, stripping is pretty much the same on any hull. Flat strips would seem to be a faster method on SOME hulls, something relatively tame in the lines and curves, like a Kipawa or Freedom 17, but if you look at something with tumblehome and curves, like the KeeWaydin series, the skill set required for the flat strips gets to be very important ...
The point I am trying to make here is that it is important to choose your build method(s), based on what is going to work best in your circumstance, your build and skill set. For a first build, I would be inclined to recommend the B&C, simply because it is more verstatile and straight forward to execute on a greater variety of builds (IMO). By all means, once you have one under your belt branch and try new things, but there is enough challenge on that first one, with out adding more.
Brian
This is such a good point, Brian, and totally what I was trying to decide. Ultimately I'd like to try both methods one day... but the question to start off is realistically, 'which one for a first boat?', and you summed up what I was thinking from peoples' responses here. And it makes absolute sense that rolling bevel would be easier to apply in certain situations while being drastically more technical in more extreme contours.
Bead and Cove for my first go, I think!
Please, please... Mr Guy is my father. You can call me Paddling.
Thanks for chiming in! I've dug through a couple of your build threads, and you (among a few others) have really turned me on to the Kite as a potential for a down-the-line solo boat that I would absolutely consider building. I think it would really fit the bill for me as a solo boat to do a little light fishing and day paddling in but also to have the ability to go and cover some miles and doing some tripping.
This really appeals to me for a build down the line: like I said I really enjoy hands-on, power-tool-less shaping and working, so if I find myself build something with simple lines I'd be very into trying it. I have seen a few variations of wedge systems like (I think) you're describing, and they look like ingenious methods. I think it would be very satisfying having the steps all in place and seeing it come together that way.
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