Kneeling and Knee Friction

[PaddlingPika]

I've been pondering friction points involved with kneeling in a canoe. This is regarding kneeling with a flat pad, not knee cups or thigh straps. There are multiple contact points requiring friction to prevent sliding forward: boat to pad, pad to pants fabric, pants fabric to skin (I almost always wear long pants). My old Grade VI kneeling pad with textured rubber on the bottom wore out and slides around too much so I've been experimenting with other padding. A couple of layers of thin yoga mat seems to stay in place well but one day after several hours of kneeling on that my knees were starting to get irritated from rubbing. I was wearing thin woven nylon long pants. Apparently the yoga mat was gripping the pants fabric and the pants were then rubbing against my knees. I wouldn't have thought the fabric was abrasive, but it was enough to cause irritation. That made me think back to another time with a different kneeling pad that had textured rubber on both sides. After a freestyle symposium my knees were starting to get raw and I blamed it on the textured rubber but now think it was the same issue of the rubber gripping the pants fabric and then skin rubbing on the fabric. Before my old kneeling pad wore out I didn't think too much about slippage issues, but thinking back on things there was always a need to reposition periodically when kneeling and also occasionally a need to hitch up pants which would gradually get tugged down a little. Finding pants with smoother fabric would presumably make them pull down more and require a tighter belt and more frequent "hitching up". On the other hand, it seems to me that if the fabric layer was eliminated and bare skinned knees were on a sticky rubber pad preventing any sliding then internal rubbing within the knee might be a problem.

What is your experience? Do you accept gradual sliding and needing to reposition as normal when kneeling? Is knee friction a problem?

 

[Dana]

Paddle naked and use sex wax?

Ok, paddling naked isn't required... but "Sex Wax" is a real product, a sticky wax used by surfers to not slide off their surfboards. I have no idea if it would be useful for paddling. It's not really used for sex... I think...

 

[eckilson]

For years I had the Bell Canoeworks version of this pad.

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It was fine, but when it wore out I replaced it with a 1/4 sheet of minicell foam - about 2' x 3'. Doesn't move around and allows me to move around if I want to shift my knees slightly to one side or another. Knees don't slide around on the pad.

 

[tketcham]

My old Grade VI kneeling pad with textured rubber on the bottom wore out and slides around too much so I've been experimenting with other padding.

My trapezoid Northstar pad has the textured rubber on the bottom but it started to peel off in bits and pieces along the edge so I tore the whole layer off. I didn't want small bits of plastic getting into the water or on the ground. The top surface lets my knees and feet move around just fine but now the pad slides around in the canoe and it's a pain trying to reposition it while paddling. So I've been thinking about how to keep it in place.

... but "Sex Wax" is a real product, a sticky wax used by surfers to not slide off their surfboards.

Applying something to the bottom of the pad to keep it from slipping isn't a bad idea, rather than gluing a layer on. I don't have any "Sex Wax" but I do have Nordic ski kick wax, maybe green or blue would work. I'll have to give it a try. For canoeing, not for sex.

Added: Well, I just tried to apply some "hard" kick wax to the pad but the wax isn't soft enough to stick. I suppose I could melt some of the wax and pour it on but I'm not keen on trying it. I could try using some of the "soft" kick wax but it would leave a sticky mess to deal with. So, I'll have to keep thinking of what might work.

I've seen small blocks of dense foam glued onto the hull to act as pad stoppers but not sure I want to go that route.

 

[gumpus]

What is your experience? Do you accept gradual sliding and needing to reposition as normal when kneeling? Is knee friction a problem?

I don't consider this a problem. Just a few comments...

I think your seat height, angle, and slipperiness affect how much tendency you have to slide forward. I use seat pads of various thicknesses to fine tune my seating position. Seat pads may also add friction and reduce sliding. I think it's hard to get seating position perfect so there may often be an opportunity to improve. The Swift seat design (which some hate) with a hump towards the front prevents sliding better than a flat seat in my experience.

Regarding friction on your knees I think you're right in that it's bad to have a grippy top surface on your kneeling pad and slippery pants since then the sliding is between your pants and skin. I prefer kneeling pads like your Grade VI that are comfy (not sticky) on top. I wear shorts in warm weather and when I wear slippery nylon pants I often have thin, close-fitting synthetic underwear on.

You might appreciate my recent issue with friction. I was paddling my Blackhawk canoe in socks and the top of my feet started burning due to friction with the fiberglass weave which was aggressive enough to zest a lemon so now I have to try to remember to wear thick socks when paddling that boat.

 

[stevet]

Seating position is key…I strive for 60% weight on the seat and 40% on the knees (assuming no aggressive FreeStyle moves). I just deal with the small amount of irritation by extending one leg periodically if full on seating is impractical.