Paddling advice for long, flat, skinny boats

[Tsuga8]

I too was surprised by how much the Advantage did respond to a sculling draw and sideslips. I imagine that would decrease with more load? I was using a 59" Tremolo ottertail so maybe that extra length helped with my stern rudder and underwater recovery corrections. I was also out on a calm day - I could see wind changing things.

 

[Chip]

I’ve paddled the Advantage a few more times and have a few more thoughts.

Sit and switch is the way to paddle it. I’m much slower paddling it on one side with correction strokes.

I’ve been working on the sit and switch. I think I’ve improved, but thus far, I have to say I don’t much enjoy it. I get 4-5 strokes per side before I switch. Stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, switch, stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, switch… No time to pause and glide, or you just yaw more off course. The switch is a bigger move—I’m still working on it, but quickly lifting the arms to immediately bang out four more strokes just doesn’t feel smooth.

I feel my forward stroke is okay, though probably I can improve on this. I straighten my lower arm and reach as far forward as I can for the catch. I rotate my torso, although I’m pretty stiff, so maybe not as much as others. With my feet on the foot bar and knee slightly bent, I straighten my on-side leg with the stroke to transfer power to the foot bar. I slightly rotate my arse in the seat a wee bit. The shaft seems to me vertical, but no doubt I can probably improve. I’m working on shortening the stroke to end mid-thigh as opposed to hip. The slide out to the side paddle-extraction was a very helpful hint—thanks for that.

I’m not sure my switch is good. Sometimes in a rythem, the switch just seems to happen, which is cool when it is going good. I’m not sure I’m always attached to the paddle, maybe kind of throwing it between hands. Seems like a bad idea that could end up in dropping the paddle, especially if it is windy. I’ve searched a bit but haven’t found a description of exactly how the switch is supposed to go. Where should my hands be? What is the path of the paddle between extraction and plant? How high to lift? And sometimes my top hand doesn’t correctly land on the grip. The switch is working, but I’m not sure i do it right.

I find it extremely impressive that fellow CT-netters paddle over five mph with moderate effort. I can barely scrape above 5 at maximum effort and I can’t hold that for long. I’m doing about 50 strokes a minute. Any faster than that, and I can’t keep up the switch so I basically have a pause while switching sides. My cruising speed is low to mid four mph.

 

[Alan Gage]

I’m not sure my switch is good. Sometimes in a rythem, the switch just seems to happen, which is cool when it is going good. I’m not sure I’m always attached to the paddle, maybe kind of throwing it between hands. Seems like a bad idea that could end up in dropping the paddle, especially if it is windy. I’ve searched a bit but haven’t found a description of exactly how the switch is supposed to go. Where should my hands be? What is the path of the paddle between extraction and plant? How high to lift? And sometimes my top hand doesn’t correctly land on the grip. The switch is working, but I’m not sure i do it right.

I change how I switch depending on conditions. The only constant is that the bottom hand is the one that hands off. If I'm paddling on the right side then my right hand (bottom) hands off to my left hand (the new bottom hand) and as the left hand begins placing the blade for the catch the right hand is sliding up to the grip. With practice it's seamless magic. When watching a really good paddler you sometimes don't even see it happen, they're just magically paddling on the other side.

I'm usually not that smooth, nor do I try to be when tripping or paddling for fun. When I swap bottom hands I usually swing the blade in an arc toward the front of canoe which causes most of the water to fling over the bow and keeps the boat drier. It's a little slower but still quick enough. It's all wrist action and easy enough with a carbon blade. A wood paddle might be too heavy.

In the wind my switches get slower because I'm making double sure the handoff is secure because, as you alluded to, it would be really easy to have a lightweight paddle blow out of your hands if you miss the hand off.

I feel my forward stroke is okay, though probably I can improve on this. I straighten my lower arm and reach as far forward as I can for the catch. I rotate my torso, although I’m pretty stiff, so maybe not as much as others. With my feet on the foot bar and knee slightly bent, I straighten my on-side leg with the stroke to transfer power to the foot bar. I slightly rotate my arse in the seat a wee bit.

I don't think my catch is that far forward and my torso rotation is not exaggerated at all. I never feel like I'm "reaching" for the catch and I don't feel like I'm getting stretched out. Instead I feel like I'm staying pretty compact. When power is applied after the catch my top hand is pushing down and I'm doing a bit of an ab crunch with some rotation. I am transferring power similar to you with the foot bar.

Here's a video showing the marathon stroke from the front and behind. If you slow the playback down to 25% (click the gear icon) it's much easier to break down how he's stroking and switching.

Alan

 

[gumpus]

Alan, what do marathon racers do to build cardio strength/endurance? Is paddling the only way?

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan, what do marathon racers do to build cardio strength/endurance? Is paddling the only way?

Paddling sure seems to be a popular way when the water isn't frozen. I remember a lot of them being runners, bikers, skies, and snowshoers as well. They were an active group.

Long steady state efforts (relatively easy zone 2), from my research and limited experience, seems to be the best way to build endurance. For me that's slow jogging, bike rides, and paddling with a heart rate around 125. It's hard enough that it feels like work but it also feels like something you can keep doing for a long time. You can still speak in full sentences but anyone listening to you talk would be able to tell that you're somewhat out of breath.

Alan

 

[tketcham]

I feel my forward stroke is okay, though probably I can improve on this. I straighten my lower arm and reach as far forward as I can for the catch. I rotate my torso, although I’m pretty stiff, so maybe not as much as others. With my feet on the foot bar and knee slightly bent, I straighten my on-side leg with the stroke to transfer power to the foot bar. I slightly rotate my arse in the seat a wee bit. The shaft seems to me vertical, but no doubt I can probably improve. I’m working on shortening the stroke to end mid-thigh as opposed to hip.

Chip, it sounds like everything is starting to work for you. Enjoy that Advantage.

I don't think my catch is that far forward and my torso rotation is not exaggerated at all. I never feel like I'm "reaching" for the catch and I don't feel like I'm getting stretched out. Instead I feel like I'm staying pretty compact. When power is applied after the catch my top hand is pushing down and I'm doing a bit of an ab crunch with some rotation. I am transferring power similar to you with the foot bar.

Alan, your observations are basically what I was finding while out paddling in my Hemlock Kestrel yesterday using a bent shaft paddle and hit-and-switch technique. I was really paying attention to what worked and what didn't. I find that with the Kestrel (1.75"/1.25" rocker), the paddle has to be more vertical and the blade spends less time in the water and right in the center section of the hull in order to minimize yaw. I found that over rotating was counter productive; I concentrated on a solid catch and the feeling of pushing the paddle down into the water and letting the blade angle do it's thing. The amount of rotation was subtle because the catch wasn't out in front so much that it required much rotation. If everything is working well I can get five or six strokes per side fairly consistently with four-stroke sides mixed in to keep me on course. With a little wind/wave assist against the bow I can easily get six and even seven strokes on the leeward side.

After paddling a touring canoe the change to a marathon C-1 used in the videos would feel like cheating.

 

[yknpdlr]

Watch the above linked video of Kevin Olson's "'how to turn a c1". you get good from the front views of how he huts and switches his hands. Also note that in what he calls a "pry' the paddle never comes in contact with the canoe, though some may think oherwise from the terminology.

When I prepare for the Yukon River marathon races, my team and I strive to accumulate team or individual personal training of 500 miles either on water, or the near equivalent time on a canoe paddling machine during winter months. I also do fast power walks and interval jog 3+ miless on a hilly dirt road near my camp, or XC ski when I can. i dislike running long distances, never have been able to do that effectively, but long distance paddlling or biking or skiing is very enjoyable.

While paddling, I feel I get a much better catch and power into the first 18 inches of the power stroke if I focus on chest forward rather than than bending over at my waist with a slopppy forward reach. Torso ratation is also minimal with me.

 

[gumpus]

While paddling, I feel I get a much better catch and power into the first 18 inches of the power stroke if I focus on chest forward rather than than bending over at my waist with a slopppy forward reach. Torso ratation is also minimal with me.

I'd like to better understand this. How do you put your chest forward but not bend at the waist?