The New Swift/DY Redesign of the Dragonfly

[gumpus]

Good points Glenn, as always. Didn’t mean to imply it was possibly competition for faster boats like a Keewaydin, just found the comments on its “surprising” speed interesting. All my paddling is downriver so “fast enough” for Tim is potentially fast enough for me as well, but is of course a subjective evaluation. Speed isn’t my primary objective but is certainly nice when you want it on the slower pools.

I think it's interesting that when folks talk about a fast canoe every person may have a different view of what that means but almost no one is actually referring to top speed. I think it's also a bit odd that folks seem to like to debate "which canoe is faster" but these debates almost never include any discussion around the paddler's weight or strength or any reference to how they use the boat.

It's been a while since I've paddled a Baboosic but my take is that it feels light on the water and easy to accelerate from low speeds. Personally I would not call it fast (for my weight and strength) but maybe Tim Burris' style or weight or strength or ? give him a different perspective.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I think it's interesting that when folks talk about a fast canoe every person may have a different view of what that means but almost no one is actually referring to top speed. I think it's also a bit odd that folks seem to like to debate "which canoe is faster" but these debates almost never include any discussion around the paddler's weight or strength or any reference to how they use the boat.

It's been a while since I've paddled a Baboosic but my take is that it feels light on the water and easy to accelerate from low speeds. Personally I would not call it fast (for my weight and strength) but maybe Tim Burris' style or weight or strength or ? give him a different perspective.

It is interesting. But "fast" is bound to be defined differently by different paddlers, if for no other reason than we all have different "motors". For a strong paddler, a longer boat will probably be faster. For a weaker paddler (where I more likely fit in) a shorter boat with less wetted area may more easily reach a higher speed. A faster theoretical hull speed may not be sustainable or even attainable for the weaker paddler.

I'd bet that only a small fraction of paddlers ever approach theoretical hull speed in the bigger solos, but a really efficient hull might still feel faster because of its sustained glide.

It's definitely not a hard science.

 

[JV_RedLeafDesigns]

Do you mean that handle looking thing?

Swift calls it a: "Carbon Assist Bar - This support bar is designed to help a paddler get up from a seated position in a boat or as the ultimate handle for portaging."

View attachment 145811
Next big thing could be a thwart handle-handle, so you don't have to grab the thwart handle directly.

I'm pushing for a thwart-handle-thwart, with the carbon bar sandwiched between two pieces of cherry...

The "Old Man Handle" comes from Steve Landick. He has them in all of his boats and sold me completely on them. They're 1-inch round carbon tube and are a great addition to boats with lunch counters or non-round thwarts so that you can easily mount GPS, bow light remotes/switches, and all sorts of other bits and bobs that come in handy for long distance tripping and racing.

The Swift team executed the concept much more elegantly than the straight carbon tube that Steve and I have on our boats and the hollow-molded technology and rapid prototyping they used was astounding to me.

 

[RPATCH]

Robert, is this your new Swift Dragonfly 15? If so, it would be great to see more pictures of it here. And . . . are you still planning to risk its pristine virginity in the rapacious Yukon territory this summer?

Yes. I'll take some more pictures. I will take it on the Big Salmon River this summer. I plan to use it as intended. We shall see how the new epoxy UV shield holds up.

 

[NikonF5user]

Yes. I'll take some more pictures. I will take it on the Big Salmon River this summer. I plan to use it as intended. We shall see how the new epoxy UV shield holds up.

I cannot wait to be seen paddling next to that awesome boat!!

 

[JV_RedLeafDesigns]

Yes. I'll take some more pictures. I will take it on the Big Salmon River this summer. I plan to use it as intended. We shall see how the new epoxy UV shield holds up.

My Cruiser 16.8 is Kevlar Fusion with a Textreme Innegra outer layer, epoxy, and UV Shield. It took a beating over about 1100 miles of paddling last season and was absolutely impeccable. It took a few hits and high-centers that would have trashed a vinyl foam core skin coat hull.

I’m still incredulous that no repairs were needed after one, particular high center incident on a stump in a grass cut during a race.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I'm pushing for a thwart-handle-thwart, with the carbon bar sandwiched between two pieces of cherry...

The "Old Man Handle" comes from Steve Landick. He has them in all of his boats and sold me completely on them. They're 1-inch round carbon tube and are a great addition to boats with lunch counters or non-round thwarts so that you can easily mount GPS, bow light remotes/switches, and all sorts of other bits and bobs that come in handy for long distance tripping and racing.

The Swift team executed the concept much more elegantly than the straight carbon tube that Steve and I have on our boats and the hollow-molded technology and rapid prototyping they used was astounding to me.

Ah, now that makes sense! Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Yes. I'll take some more pictures. I will take it on the Big Salmon River this summer. I plan to use it as intended. We shall see how the new epoxy UV shield holds up.

It also can’t be stressed enough that if a paddler uses a spray deck with a tunnel, the very first thing they should do after installing it is practice capsizing and exiting in a controlled environment. It’s disheartening that almost every spray deck user I’ve met has never practiced wet exits or self rescues…

At 29:31 of this Swift 2025 product launch video, Bill Swift goes over all the custom features of @RPATCH's blue forged carbon DF 15 and also displays a DF 15 with one of Jeremy's RedLeaf custom spray covers.

 

[JV_RedLeafDesigns]

Ah, now that makes sense! Thanks for the explanation.

You’re most welcome! Here’s the less-elegant version that I make in my shop and could never bring to market profitably because each one is made as a one-off unit. It’s also quite salty thanks to winter in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

In another thread, Jeremy Vore (@JV_RedLeafDesigns) posted this video of his first recreational paddle in his new Swift Dragonfly 15. I thought it would be very informative in this thread, too, because Jeremy discusses the features of the canoe and offers comparisons to the original 14'-6" Curtis (Colden/Swift) Dragonfly and some other current canoes.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Interesting point about the flotation. The float tanks on my Wildfire didn't stop me from adding bags, but now I wonder how much weight taking those tanks out would save. No, I'm not going to start cutting them out - but if I ever scrape together the money for another custom canoe, it's nice to know that Swift would allow me that option (I assume).

D15 is looking better all the time.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Bill Swift showing off a purple "forged carbon" DF 15:

 

[RPATCH]

I've just finished paddling my new Swift Dragonfly 15 for a couple of days in the New Jersey Pine Barrens with some friends, so I can finally relate my initial impressions of this canoe.

First, let me say that it's all positive. This is a very fun canoe to paddle. Coupled with being a truly remarkable piece of modern canoe artwork, make it a very rewarding experience indeed.

I think the term "initial stability" is a misnomer. I think what that is usually referring to is the resistance for a canoe to move from a flat position. That would only be desirable when the canoe was being used as a platform for something else, like fishing or photography. For the pleasure of paddling, that would be pretty much all negative. This canoe has a huge arc of stability that resists the roll as you get toward the gunwales. There is no discernible resistance between upright and heeled, but it is all very smooth and controlled. You want to be upright? Keep your weight in the middle.

As for directional maneuverability, for the most part, it accurately responds easily to what you ask it to do. I say "for the most part" because it does have 1/2" less rocker in the stern, which aids in tracking a little. A straight tracking canoe has the tendency to resist paddling inputs that would turn the canoe. The differential rocker in this canoe is very slight and it's very easy to skid the stern, but my initial impression is that it tracks a little better than the original Dragonfly I paddled back to back with it. I'd also say that the original Dragonfly is quicker rolling side to side, which makes sense because it is narrower. At any rate, it feels very nimble, but it is a pretty large canoe. Think the size of a Hemlock SRT. High sides and very full in the bow and stern. I believe the size suits me at 205 lbs and for my intended use as a wilderness tripper on far north rivers.

I haven't had it in any rapids yet. I expect it to run dry. I had it on the Great Egg Harbor River, which was extremely tight and technical. In that situation, the size worked against it, but it was still fine.

For a stretch on the Batsto River, I traded canoes with Bruce Kemp for his Curtis Dragonfly that he has paddled since 2008. He commented on how much it felt like his Dragonfly, only larger. He said it felt immediately familiar.

I will have the Dragonfly 15 at the Western PA Solo Canoe Rendezvous at Cooper's Lake Campground near Slippery Rock, PA from May 30th to June 1st for anyone who would like to come and try paddling it. If you are unfamiliar with the event, it's like a sleepover camp for adult solo canoe addicts. There is no cost for the event and they even feed you!

wpascr

 

[Gamma1214]

Thanks for the update RPATCH, sounds like yet another good reason to make my way to the WPASCR. (sure wish they hadn't changed the dates)

 

[ABT]

I thought I would add my impressions of the Drafonfly 15 to this thread since I had the opportunity to get in one this past Friday. I wouldn’t call it a “test paddle” per se because I never really left the dock. I am primarily a sitter, and the seat was pretty high on this boat, so I’m sure that had a huge effect. This boat is the same width as the Mad River Guide, but a little longer, and appears fuller in the ends and also appears to carry its volume much higher towards the gunwales, which is interesting because to me it felt like it required constant focus to keep my weight centered and the boat upright, whereas the Guide feels much more solid. I didn’t spend a ton of time in it, but never felt comfortable unfortunately. It dipped down a couple times and I will say it was quick and easy to bring it right back up, but it felt like it had no happy resting place at the top. I like a maneuverable river boat, but I also like to be able to relax on the flats sometimes and just take in my surroundings and this did not seem to be the boat for that. I did try kneeling in it, and again I felt like I just could not get low enough to find a stable comfortable balancing point - it was still constant work and focus. It wanted to constantly be in motion toward one side or the other with even the slightest change in position. When kneeling I also felt like I wanted my knees wider than I could get them (for more stability), but it wasn’t possible with the width and rounded bottom. The rounded bottom also didn’t feel very comfortable to me with just a neoprene kneeling pad, as they felt like they wanted to move inwards with the arc of the hull. My Dagger Caption and my Polaris are the only boats I regularly kneel in, and they are both wider with a shallower arch, so maybe it’s just what I’m used to. I do think it might have settled some with some forward motion and a paddle in the water for a stabilizer, but I knew pretty quickly this boat was not for me (at least not at my current skill level, or for my current needs). I sat in it for about 5 minutes trying to get comfortable just with it at rest and never did, so I moved on to other boats to try. The constant need for focus reminded me of my Rendezvous, which I’m also not in love with. Perhaps lowering the seat a lot would have made me feel better, but with the high seat position “lively” seems like an understatement to describe it with. To the right folks I’m sure this boat is a Ferrari, but I guess I’m just not there. Glad I got to get in one, but it’s just not for me at my skill level, or for the way I paddle. Still a very cool boat though.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I thought I would add my impressions of the Drafonfly 15 to this thread since I had the opportunity to get in one this past Friday. I wouldn’t call it a “test paddle” per se because I never really left the dock. I am primarily a sitter, and the seat was pretty high on this boat, so I’m sure that had a huge effect. This boat is the same width as the Mad River Guide, but a little longer, and appears fuller in the ends and also appears to carry its volume much higher towards the gunwales, which is interesting because to me it felt like it required constant focus to keep my weight centered and the boat upright, whereas the Guide feels much more solid. I didn’t spend a ton of time in it, but never felt comfortable unfortunately. It dipped down a couple times and I will say it was quick and easy to bring it right back up, but it felt like it had no happy resting place at the top. I like a maneuverable river boat, but I also like to be able to relax on the flats sometimes and just take in my surroundings and this did not seem to be the boat for that. I did try kneeling in it, and again I felt like I just could not get low enough to find a stable comfortable balancing point - it was still constant work and focus. It wanted to constantly be in motion toward one side or the other with even the slightest change in position. When kneeling I also felt like I wanted my knees wider than I could get them (for more stability), but it wasn’t possible with the width and rounded bottom. The rounded bottom also didn’t feel very comfortable to me with just a neoprene kneeling pad, as they felt like they wanted to move inwards with the arc of the hull. My Dagger Caption and my Polaris are the only boats I regularly kneel in, and they are both wider with a shallower arch, so maybe it’s just what I’m used to. I do think it might have settled some with some forward motion and a paddle in the water for a stabilizer, but I knew pretty quickly this boat was not for me (at least not at my current skill level, or for my current needs). I sat in it for about 5 minutes trying to get comfortable just with it at rest and never did, so I moved on to other boats to try. The constant need for focus reminded me of my Rendezvous, which I’m also not in love with. Perhaps lowering the seat a lot would have made me feel better, but with the high seat position “lively” seems like an understatement to describe it with. To the right folks I’m sure this boat is a Ferrari, but I guess I’m just not there. Glad I got to get in one, but it’s just not for me at my skill level, or for the way I paddle. Still a very cool boat though.

Thanks for the input. Comparing with the Guide is very useful to me.