Hello from Fulton, NY

[xj35s]

I'm new here. I have a Lincoln Concord but I'm starting a Chestnut Prospector Skin on Frame build. I've read a lot of posts already and I like the vibe of this forum. I look forward to getting to know ya'll a bit. Constructive criticism welcomed!

I like Ryobi tools and No Garage. I'll start a build thread. So far in a search I can't find any info on gluing the ribs to the stringers with gorilla glue? I have a gallon of it that I don't want to go to waste. It seems Epoxy is the only thing that should be used?

I'm using 2"x6"hard wood from FB market place for the strong back. This was the first prototype, I have since lowered it and added better legs. 20' total length. I'll add a 2x12 for the top build platform. I used a very long 1/4"x2" flat steel bar to get the two sections straight before adding the truss. It's Level now but I might have to add shims under the 2x12 to fix any warping. I see a lot of planing in my future too!









I'd like to mill my own strips from green fresh cut Black Locust. I have a tree that has to come down. Anyone want to talk me out of it? I have a craftsman table saw with a Diablo combination blade. I plan too screw a board to the log to get the first slice then lay it on that flat side and slice it into strips. I can then rip the strips to the width I need. Might work? I should end up with a lot of quarter sawn strips in the end if I do it right.

My Lincoln, because everyone likes pictures right?





Erie/ Barge Canal in Montezuma NY between rt 38 and Howlands Island.

 

[Gamma1214]

Welcome. Not many skin-on-frame builds that I can recall so I'll be watching when you start.

I also can't give an opinion on Black Locust (though it makes a great fencepost!) but I might be concerned a little about the weight. Will you kiln dry it, use it green or is this a long-range project with air drying time?

PS: stick around a while & we'll have you DIYing a new woven & contoured stern seat for the Hot Rod Lincoln.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Xj35s, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos, and to start threads, in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Many of the site's technical features are explained in Features: Help and How-To Running Thread. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

So far in a search I can't find any info on gluing the ribs to the stringers with gorilla glue? I have a gallon of it that I don't want to go to waste. It seems Epoxy is the only thing that should be used?

From my kayak days I recall that skin-on-frame builders used epoxy and/or sinew lashings to fix the ribs to the stringers. Some may have used small screws as temporary or permanent attachments as well.

Attached is a PDF of an article from Fine Woodworking magazine, which conducted sophisticated laboratory testing of the strengths of various wood glues. Gorilla Glue (polyurethane glue) came in last.

Here is a step-by-step article of the build of a skin-on-frame canoe:

How I Built My Skin On Frame Canoe

I have been looking for a super light boat that I could load by my self. Health issues have limited my options. I just don't have th...

sofcanoe.blogspot.com

I look forward to your build thread . . . after which you will be the site's resident SOF canoe expert!

 

[xj35s]

Welcome. Not many skin-on-frame builds that I can recall so I'll be watching when you start.

I also can't give an opinion on Black Locust (though it makes a great fencepost!) but I might be concerned a little about the weight. Will you kiln dry it, use it green or is this a long-range project with air drying time?

PS: stick around a while & we'll have you DIYing a new woven & contoured stern seat for the Hot Rod Lincoln.

Thank you. I might be changing my mind on that. I knew it was a boat building wood used in old ships. I didn't realize how dense it is. I have White Ash and Eastern Hemlock on the property. I was going to build it all with green wood to maybe eliminate the steaming process? I think I'll buy Red Ceder though.

I am on 8mm doing a goofy dance to that song when I was 3 years old! Still love it!



@Glenn MacGrady , Thank you for the links. This site looks and acts very much like bushcraftusa.com. Same rules which I think are common sense, or were once upon a time. I have one question for you. How is this site financed? I pay a supporters membership subscription over there and a few benefits come along with it. I don't see that here.

I like to camp, I hammock and net tent/Tarp. I see a lot of good threads on here.

 

[Gamma1214]

I have White Ash and Eastern Hemlock on the property. I was going to build it all with green wood to maybe eliminate the steaming process?

It's pretty likely that some of the wood / canvas builders / restorers can give better insight into bending cold or steaming but steaming, although I've never actually done it, doesn't seem that bad to me. From watching @Patrick Corry, @Robin, & others, it looks like the trick is to have everything ready so you can work quickly once the wood is taken from the steamer.

I bend White Oak & my selected trim wood (Cherry & Sassafras so far) to make laminated seat frames by soaking 3/16 inch strips in water for 3-4 days, placing them in a jig, allowing them to dry then gluing / epoxying them together & returning them to the jig until the adhesive cures. If your frame pieces are less than 1/2 inch (just a guess), soaking & bending cold might work for you. If you try a few test pieces and they break, build a steamer.

I've never used green lumber but I have very little experience with kiln dried either. Nearly everything I've ever played with has been rough cut, air dried and I've heard that kiln dried is more brittle ("they cook the life out of it" is a common lament). Maybe some actual woodworkers on the site can enlighten us on that... it may very well be curmudgeonly grousing.

Cedar, being traditional, is always a popular choice. I love Hemlock for building walls & roof trusses but, in my experience, it gets a bit brittle when thin. Ash is, again, a hair on the heavy side but strong enough to justify the extra weight. I've heard that Tamarack (Eastern Larch) was traditionally used in boats also. Perhaps @Boatman53 has some helpful experience or some suggestions.

 

[Boatman53]

Welcome to the campfire xj. Skin on frame want to be light so I wouldn’t want to use a heavy wood. Green wood is best for bending but it will need to be steamed. The moisture in the green wood just helps everything get hot all the way through. The stringers want to be light and stiff, the ribs need to be a wood that’s good to bend and hold there shape.
I just helped harvest a tamarac that blew down and we dug out the stump to use the turn up the roots for knees and stems. I am currently replacing the deck on my house with western Larch. The boards are for the most part very nice with tight grain. I say it would work well for stringers if you can find some. The larch was stocked as a standard in one of my local lumber yards.
For a steam generator I use a wallpaper steamer found in many places for around $50. Simple, safer, and plenty of steam for the ribs you will be using.
Jim

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

This site looks and acts very much like bushcraftusa.com.

Since August 2021, this site has been on the same software platform as BUSA: Xenforo.

How is this site financed? I pay a supporters membership subscription over there and a few benefits come along with it. I don't see that here.

The site has never had an ad or membership tiers in its 13 years of existence. Every feature of the site has always been fully open to all members. The site has always been financed solely by voluntary donations from the members via fund drives that used to happen approximately annually. The last fund drive in November 2023 was sufficiently successful that there will not need to be another until November 2026. Here is the 2023 fund drive thread:

2023 Fund Drive Now On

WHAT Since its founding in 2011, this site has always been financially supported by member donations and has never had an ad. This is the first fund drive in 26 months. Historically, they had been held annually. We were able to go this long because our September 2021 fund drive secured a...

www.canoetripping.net

 

[xj35s]

Welcome to the campfire xj. Skin on frame want to be light so I wouldn’t want to use a heavy wood. Green wood is best for bending but it will need to be steamed. The moisture in the green wood just helps everything get hot all the way through. The stringers want to be light and stiff, the ribs need to be a wood that’s good to bend and hold there shape.
I just helped harvest a tamarac that blew down and we dug out the stump to use the turn up the roots for knees and stems. I am currently replacing the deck on my house with western Larch. The boards are for the most part very nice with tight grain. I say it would work well for stringers if you can find some. The larch was stocked as a standard in one of my local lumber yards.
For a steam generator I use a wallpaper steamer found in many places for around $50. Simple, safer, and plenty of steam for the ribs you will be using.
Jim

I came to the right place. You all are awesome. I never heard of a wallpaper steamer but it's a good idea. I have an old Harbor Freight Flag pole that was 50' that the wind damaged. The base aluminum pipe is about 4" in diameter. It bent at the second from the top section. I like to repurpose if I can. Makes sense the green wood needs to be heated through to keep from cracking.

Thank you. I'll start the build thread Tomorrow. I'll get the forms up today.

 

[Boatman53]

The flag pole will make an awesome steam box but you need to find some way to keep the wood from sitting on the pipe, maybe a two inch (or more) section of 1/4’ hardware cloth just to elevate the wood. Also wrap an old blanket or insulation around the pipe to prevent heat loss.
Jim

 

[Pseudonym]

There's a gentlemen who offers skin-on-frame tutorials online at Cape Falcon Kayaks. He has designed a series of skin-on-frame canoes that stack together like Russian nesting dolls. It might be worth a gander as you get started. You can find his canoe info here.

 

[xj35s]

There's a gentlemen who offers skin-on-frame tutorials online at Cape Falcon Kayaks. He has designed a series of skin-on-frame canoes that stack together like Russian nesting dolls. It might be worth a gander as you get started. You can find his canoe info here.

Yeah, I've watched them all. I like the newer way he does it with the gunwales first and the ribs put in under the keel. I like the Gaboats building with the heat bond tape and Dacron skin.

I don't know if anyone has done this or not. It's just a pipe dream right now. Thinking out loud. what if I layered up three of the ribs the way you do the stems? Can I get away with no thwart? Maybe a bit wider inwale and gunwale? I'm thinking being able to sleep in or under the canoe with nothing in the way? I would have to make an inverted form for those three ribs. Then drill large holes to clamp the layers to the inside edge of the new forms.

I dismantled the entire strong back last night and rebuilt it. One board was too warped to make use of. Now I'm going to get the forms on and straight and level?

 

[stripperguy]

My son built a GA Snowshoe 12, coincidentally, when he was 12 years old. Of course, I helped.
IIRC, his build ended up around 10 lbs.
I built a steam box for him out of some 3" PVC drain pipe, and used a wallpaper steamer for the steam source.
Leftover cedar for the ribs and stringers, GA kit materials (kit was son's Christmas gift) for the heat shrink dacron skin.
The boat suited him well when built, he was 12 years old...long since outgrown it. I've used it a few times for long carries, but I don't particularly care for pack boat seating.
I've long toyed with the idea of a SOF build of my own, with carbon fiber over foam ribs, dunno if I'll ever get to it.

Anyway, welcome to the group, lots of experienced builders and paddlers here, willing, or maybe anxious, to share our knowledge and experience before it fades away.

Lastly, xj35s?? Is that a reference to your jeep? I happen to be a CJ guy myself.

 

[xj35s]

I'm sorry for the long post. I'm bored LOL! It is an introduction thread after all.


@stripperguy ,

Yup. I built my own long arm front suspension. 2" O.D. Dom tubing with 1/2" thick walls. Yes I wrote that right. 3/4" 3 piece chromoly Heim joints with 70.000 LB radial load and 35,000 LB lateral load rating at both ends. 8" lift by 4" trailmaster lift and spacers up front, double stack rear spring pack. Ford 8.8 limited slip rear with 3:73 gears and a welded front dana 30 with ZJ outer knuckles, brakes, and double piston calipers. The front is 3:55 gears. This gave me a 10% front wheel drive effect. It really made a huge difference when climbing big rocks.

I wheeled with JeepsRUs out of Harrisburg PA. used to go to Paragon Adventure Park in Hazelton once a month. Been to Tellico 3 times and the Badlands in Attic IN a few times too.

400,000 miles before being a trailer queen. Then when the body got real weak I bought a tube Chassis and switched the full drive line into it.




The Buggy was much more fun!! 4 linked but the same 8.8. 2" sway-a-way racerunners 38" super swampers.

 

[stripperguy]

How many years was it for the xj to buggy transformation?
You SOF build will be a heartbeat by comparison, I suppose.
Since you’re wondering, (ok maybe you’re not), my CJ5 is a 1977. My straight six is rebuilt and slightly built, glass body, total weight around 2,200 lbs. I regeared and trussed the rear AMC model20, trussed and regeared the front Dana 30. Moser axles in the back, Superior alloy shafts up front. Swapped in D44 knuckles, I machined the tops and built my own hi steer, and I used 4340 alloy tubing for drag link and tie rod, 3/4 ton TRE’s,
I also did a SOA using oem wrangler springs, 12” travel at every wheel.
Swapped in 5speed, swapped I. d300 that I regeared to 4:1
Axles are 4.56. 35” tires, locked both ends. It’s a fun ride
I do western MA trails as well as Rausch Creek in PA and Mettowee in NY
Been wheeling almost as long as I’ve been building strippers.
Looking forward to see your build

 

[xj35s]

Nice ride! I'm not familiar with Mettowee. I've been to rousch creek. I want to go to Wolf Springs with our quads. It's just west of RT15 going into PA. Long Haul for you but probably closer than Rousch.


Need a pic. It took me 3 months. The chassis was set up for four link rear with the mounts, I just had to build the brackets and top hat for the 8,8 and I had imitation johnny joints that welded onto the tubes. The hardest part was actually the steering gear box mount and pan hard bar bracket. It originally had leaf sprung front in it.

I had a friend of mine CNC cut a plate that bolted in using the transmission to t-case bolts. The top of the plate had a large tab. I cut notches in the tab and welded in old lower shock ends for the bushings and put a bolt through them right into the tube frame with pipe inerts, welded inside holes I drilled. The front motor mounts were easy. Put a 15 gallon Le'batts beer keg in the back with an electric fuel pump under it. Radiator went in easy. A few brackets for throttle and brake pedals and it was done. These are the only pics I have of that plate. The tools are sitting on the drivers seat mount bars.

I'll find the picture of my wife painting it naked.......

 

[xj35s]

My wife painting it naked.....

 

[stripperguy]

Naked...haha
Here's mine at Rausch Creek, Yellowjacket trail

Since that pic, I've built a swing down spare tire carrier, and added in TBI

 

[xj35s]

TBI is a sweet upgrade. Love the looks of that. Hydraulic Winch? OOOOOOOOH YEAH!!


I had an old 1968 Kaiser CJ5, with a rotted frame I turned it into a doodle bug sort of. Just running gear and a seat!!! LOL! Never got out of first gear but it would go anywhere!! How ya like the fuel tank? My buddy welded a new bottom on it and labled it "It's Jeep Thing" and gave it to me as a gift.

Man are we ever off topic now!!! LOL!

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Man are we ever off topic now!!! LOL!

The topic is a new member introduction thread. You're "introducing" different aspects of yourself . . . go for it! I, for one, enjoy learning about other members lives, interests, thoughts and even problems. It adds to the community feeling.

Now, if either you or @stripperguy have pictures of a canoe on a Jeep, that would be icing.

 

[stripperguy]

Here you go
Not the same Jeep, this is my LJ stopped near the Boreas River
On top is my carbon copy Kite and MDB’s Swift