What to do with the Brownline?

[Chip]

The Brownline Mayfly is an 18.5' x 34", fiberglass beast. The serial indicates manufacture in 1975. It's a fairly fast hull, but weighs somewhere around 90 lbs.



The "shedding" decks are a prominent feature. The builder told me the boat was designed for "pool and drop rivers like the Guadalupe." Odd, IMO, because it is a hull that likes to continue in a straight line. Does the Guadalupe run straight?





With 8' between seats, it seemed like a good social-distance craft to take out for a tandem, lake paddle yesterday, and it was. Thus, the Brownline earned another year in my "active" fleet. Any boat that doesn't get used in a year is in jeopardy of being purged.

A wedge of foam fell out from beneath the bow deck. The foam must have been placed there for floatation. I thought to glue it back in before paddling yesterday, but the prior day's weather became so humid the "under-deck" wouldn't dry. Also, I discovered the foam plug was also missing from under the stern deck, too. I ended up bringing extra dry bags, puffed with air, and strapping them in to keep the boat from sinking if it capsized (which we all know would never happen!). So, some work is needed. Or, just ditch the boat.

Brownline Pros:
Fast
All fiberglass construction, so, in theory, low maintenance

Brownline Cons:
Heavy
No carry thwart, probably a good thing since the boat might crush me.
Difficult to move by myself
For an 18.5' boat, there's not much room for gear, at least partially due to the length of the decks, which combined are over 5' long
Also, due to the decks and recurved gunwales, it's really difficult to clean out mud. Refuse ends up trapped in the decks.
At the moment, it needs work, a big con in my book

I'm guessing I will have to give this boat away to get rid of it, which is the way I'm leaning. Anybody need a boat for the Guadalupe?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Cool looking cottage boat though! It should have some market value for someone with a dock.

 

[Guest]

The Brownline Mayfly is an 18.5' x 34", fiberglass beast. The serial indicates manufacture in 1975. It's a fairly fast hull, but weighs somewhere around 90 lbs.

Heavy
No carry thwart, probably a good thing since the boat might crush me.
Difficult to move by myself

I'm guessing I will have to give this boat away to get rid of it, which is the way I'm leaning. Anybody need a boat for the Guadalupe?

That is a cool and interesting hull, and looks like it is in decent condition for a 45 year old glass canoe.

The 90lb weight and lack of a yoke – not that I want to shoulder a 90lb canoe – would kill it for me.

It might hurt even with a two-person lift. I may be less likely to hurt myself getting under the yoke of a 90 pounder and sliding it on the racks bow first. The problem with two-person loading, especially if performed with a non or novice paddler, is that some folks have a bad habit of stopping the lift and invert action at the worst possible time, with the canoe almost overhead, held to the side at a mid-flip 45 degree angle. That is a good way to get hurt, or drop the canoe on the ground, bouncing it off the vehicle on the way down.

I agree with Kim, the most suitable home might be as a cottage or camp canoe, or with someone who lives on waterfront property. It might still be a “give away”, but in the end I’d rather see such a canoe end up at a home where it would be used and appreciated, rather than advertise it on Craigslist for $200 and deal with dickering lowballers and wanna be flippers.

Got any lake front cottage friends?

 

[memaquay]

If you have relatives or not so close friends who want to borrow a canoe, well, there you go, have at er.

 

[Odyssey]

The Brownline is begging to big up to semi-sailboat class. Permanent floatation needed under decks, a McCrea special thwart for mounting sail maybe towards the bow seat. Is the shell strong enough for mast torsion without guys? You may have to beef up the rails with wood. Another problem is it may be way too slender for sail. You'd need more ballast. I'd say a semi-permanent floor and a modest sized sail. This weird canoe cousin could be a real hottie in different threads going to a completely different party. She could wind up being in a class all her own.
Or here's a thought. Is it outrigger worthy?
Trailering all the way.

 

[Guest]

The Brownline is begging to big up to semi-sailboat class. Permanent floatation needed under decks, a McCrea special thwart for mounting sail maybe towards the bow seat. Is the shell strong enough for mast torsion without guys? You may have to beef up the rails with wood. Another problem is it may be way too slender for sail. You'd need more ballast. Lotsa beer? I'd say a semi-permanent floor and a modest sized sail. This weird canoe cousin could be a real hottie in different threads going to a completely different party. She could wind up being in a class all her own.

Hey, I’m willing to lend a hand to converting it to a dedicated sailing canoe.

Chip, your call, downwind only, or a real sail with boom, mast step and sheets? Lee board? Tiller, or a rudder? Lotta work, but I will “help” with the following provisos’:

I never, ever have to pick up or carry another 90lb canoe as long as I live. Not just the Brownline; if I ever have another 90+ LB canoe come through the shop Chip has to drive up to my place and help move it on and off the racks into the shop. Turning it from upside down to right side up while in the shop included. Might want to camp out in the yard Chip.

If I am aboard the beer ballast must be a hoppy IPA with a minimum 7.5 ABV, and must be kept cold. Not, for example, an empty bottle of Guinness, filled with Wye Island tidal water and sneakily recapped, passed forward and handed to me with a faux “psst” when the cap is “removed”. PATOOIE!

I will have no responsibilities or control chores while sailing, but will recline in leisure in the bow, sipping another beer. At most my task will be to say “Come a bit to starboard Chip, I’m getting splashed”. Hitting me in the head with the boom is not allowed.

I will require some substance to ease my lack-of-control anxieties while sailing. Beer alone will not suffice. I suggest a mounting a bong in the bow. Sativa please, not Indica. I’m fond of the Bruce Banner strain.

Lastly, Chip is not permitted to coerce me into a race promising that we will very soon stop at a lovely sandy beach, only to pass dozens of lovely sandy beaches with repeated assurances “Oh, there’s a much better beach just around that next peninsula”.

Whadda ya say Chip, sounds good to me.

 

[yellowcanoe]

That thing begs to be raced in nearshore waters.. With a little added flotation of course. I am wondering if it was intended to be an offshore racing canoe.. Crying for an ama.

 

[ppine]

Many of the early fiberglass boats were overbuilt. This one is not very deep and still weighs 90 pounds. Ugh.
Perfect loaner for guests is right.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Check into some of the Composite builds here, and use the May Fly as a female mold !

The cupping of the Outwhale, could easily make the shape, for a ultra light weight gunnel .

That all depends on how well you like the handling of the May Fly ?

Just an idea.

 

[gumpus]

For some reason I find that boat very cool and strangely appealing.

Maybe you could turn it into an electric motor canoe.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I think the canoe is exactly what the builder suggested: a tandem racing canoe for the 260 mile Texas Water Safari race down the pool-drop San Marcos, the slower and log-jammed Guadlupe and across windy and bumpy San Antonio Bay. Many of the boats in that race are very long and slender, with big decks or canoe covers, paddled by up to five or six persons.



Here's a detailed 2018 article about the race: Survival of the Fittest -- Days and night of struggle face the paddlers of the Texas Water Safari.

In addition to hallucinations, challenges in the race include whitewater rapids, grueling portages, gear malfunction, logjams, snakes, alligators, too many spiders to count, vomiting (repeatedly), twisted ankles, sunburns, rashes, fevers, egg-frying Texas heat, broken boats and, just as likely, broken wills.

“Our strategy is the ER or the finish line,” . . . .

And a short video:

 

[yellowcanoe]

Way cool stuff Glenn. Thanks for sharing that bit of history. Now how to get the boat to a TWS paddler? It is still on for Sept
https://www.texaswatersafari.org/

 

[ppine]

Who needs a lifejacket. Texas is a weird place, but they love their water sports in the heat.

 

[Guest]

Also, due to the decks and recurved gunwales, it's really difficult to clean out mud. Refuse ends up trapped in the decks.
At the moment, it needs work, a big con in my book

Chip, if you do any work to the Brownline maybe drill half inch (or larger) drain holes near the tips of the stem. At least the small debris will hose out the ends.

It looks like the Brownline has a fat area centered atop both peaked decks. I’d be really tempted to add kayak-style carry handles to the bow and stern in those areas. I have added them to our heavy decked canoes for two person carries.

These are great; hand comfy and use two bolts.

http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main...oducts_id=1076

Toggles-style handles on a rope line may work for a narrow kayak but suck on a canoe. Single attachment point, not double bolted to better bear 45lbs of weight at each end, the rope suspension means the boat sways around when carried, bashing into your legs, and the handle is really uncomfortable.

http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=700

I have a pair of those I installed and quickly took back off. Your’s free if you want sucky, uncomfortable handles for the Brownline.

I suspect other toggle-style handles would be likewise unsatisfactory on a 90lb canoe.

http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=945

http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=499

 

[Chip]

The Brownline is being given to daughter's in-laws, who live on Rockhold Creek in Deale, Md. The good news is it will probably get used and, the better news is that I only have to move it one more time. I ran across some old notes on the boat. Apparently, I weighed it once and it came in right about a hundred pounds.

I need to replace the floatation under the decks. I have one plug of foam that fell out of the bow, but nothing for the stern. Do you think I could just empty a can of Great Stuff up in there? Seems like I've heard of people creating messes with Great Stuff, but I forget the details.

I'm reluctant to turn over a boat that doesn't float, since there is no guarantee the new owner will ever get around to installing floatation. The grab handles, I'm not going to worry about. I guess handles would be nice, but in the limited number of times I used the Brownline, I never once found myself thinking: "dang, this thing needs handles!"

 

[Guest]

The Brownline is being given to daughter's in-laws, who live on Rockhold Creek in Deale, Md. The good news is it will probably get used and, the better news is that I only have to move it one more time. I ran across some old notes on the boat. Apparently, I weighed it once and it came in right about a hundred pounds.

Well you’ve done it now. I have said, with great relief, that “At least now I will never have to move that beast again”. And then moved it again. And again, especially with too-heavy-for-me canoes that went to friends and relatives.

I need to replace the floatation under the decks. I have one plug of foam that fell out of the bow, but nothing for the stern. Do you think I could just empty a can of Great Stuff up in there? Seems like I've heard of people creating messes with Great Stuff, but I forget the details.

Nooooooo! The details is that spray Great Stuff or the like will never set up through and through when sprayed in a large volume; the center will remain sticky doughy at best. I know this for fact; I tried making an “Emergency” bourbon stash as a joke for a friend.

Bottle of cheap bourbon in a 10L drybag, spray filled with Great Stuff for protective cushioning and buoyancy. When the first bourbon emergency occurred we started to claw the cured Great Stuff out of the dry bag to get to the precious fluid. We only had to claw an inch or so, after that we were digging out handfuls of sticky slimy uncured Great Stuff.

You probably don’t want to drop $50 on a can of the pourable stuff made for stem floatation

http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html

Cheap (free) ethafoam, such as comes around electronics and appliances as packing material too quickly degrades into crusty rough surfaced crap. A big slab of minicel carved to fit will work, but is pricey.

Maybe a couple of those Walmart yoga blocks, shaped to fit and glued in place?

 

[Guest]

Chip, a very old school floatation “trick” to consider.

In the 60’s my father installed center flotation in our aluminum canoes by gluing together thick slabs of Styrofoam, shaping them to fit and then coating them with, if memory serves, latex paint, which didn’t dissolve the Styrofoam.

Without the paint the Styrofoam would squeak horribly against the aluminum hull. OK, they would still squeak some eventually where the paint wore through. I think the paint coat provided some UV protection and helped prevent dislodging Styrofoam pellets to float in the bilge and stick to our feet.

I don’t think it existed back then, but maybe a sheet of pink foamboard (not crumbly pellet-like Styrofoam), cut and glued together for width and depth, and some belt sander shaping to make a custom fit stem plug? Probably still paint it for UV protection.

Hell, you could move the existing bow floatation to the stern, and make a custom “bowman’s floatation plug”, with a recessed cylinder water bottle holder, a notch for miscellaneous sunglasses/sunscreen, and even secure storage for your in-law’s preferred paddling bong.

 

[Chip]

I did some internet reading about foam and came to the same conclusion as Mike. I need to get some of the two-part urethane mix they make for floatation.

I'm surprised at the expense of foam in most forms beyond pool noodles and styrofoam. I do have some Minicell around, but the under deck area is an odd shape to fit and Minicell has better uses. Yoga blocks are a great idea, but again, how to stick them up under those odd shaped decks?

You know those foam, pool mats or floats that are made from a flexible foam pad? Even those things cost a hundred bucks and up. I had no idea.

I decided to look for two part foam unassociated with boats. Seems the price of material about doubles if the name of the material is preceded with "marine" or "boat." I found a web site for an outfit in W. Palm Beach called US Composites*. They advertise two quarts, one of each part, of foam that will turn into two-cubic feet of waterproof foam for $22.50, the most reasonable price I've seen ("marine" not in the name). Unknown what the shipping will cost and they are closed for the holiday. Hopefully, if we make it through the long, covid weekend I can find out more on Monday. But, that is my current plan.

* I clicked on Mike's shopmaniac link. It brings up the US Composites site. Odd.

 

[Guest]

Chip, I wasn’t sure if 4lbs of floatation was sufficient in the stem of a 10lb canoe, so I estimated $50 worth.

See answers to #8 here to estimate the amount you would need (divided x 2 since you have the remaining stem foam)

http://www.shopmaninc.com/faq_foam.html#8

 

[Chip]

Water weighs ~62 lbs per cubic foot. So, roughly 1.6 cubic feet of foam will float 100 pounds. Technically, it is a little more, since the foam weighs a couple pounds. But, a lot less than 1.6 cf of foam will keep the boat off the bottom, since the water will support a portion of the weight of the boat.

Here is a photo of the "bun" that was under the bow deck.



The odd shape makes precise calculation difficult, but I'd guess the bun is about a third of a cubic foot, so will float around 20 lbs.

Something similar under the stern deck should be enough to keep the canoe off the bottom. So, the two cubic feet the quarts produce should be more than enough.

Urethane foam sounds like pretty exciting material to work. You have 45 seconds before it starts to foam. I wonder if I can mix it and pour it that fast, and hope it still pours while it is foaming. Some practice may be indicated. Have any dry bags you need filled?