What do you think I should do?

[Black_Fly]

[No message]

 

[Boatman53]

You can send it to me and I’ll dispose of it properly for you.
Jim

 

[BWCA66]

The only truly happy canoe is a scratched canoe so find some open water and get it over with!

 

[Cruiser]

It's brand new .... I suspect you paid good money for the canoe and that skid pad should be straight. You are going to add your own blemishes over time, but IMO you shouldn't start with issues.

I would send those pics to the manufacturer and ask them to make it right.

Brian

 

[BWCA66]

It's brand new .... I suspect you paid good money for the canoe and that skid pad should be straight. You are going to add your own blemishes over time, but IMO you shouldn't start with issues.

I would send those pics to the manufacturer and ask them to make it right.

Brian

As a manufacturer myself I totally agree with Brian!

Greg

 

[Guest]

I totally agree with Brian!

Moi aussi. With a brand new several thousand dollar composite canoe, from a reputable high-end manufacturer, I would expect everything to be right.

“Making it right” would not involve refunding the $95 upcharge for external skid plates, especially not ugly, off-kilter, over long kevlar felt skid plates; those fugly misaligned skid plates would continue to bug me every time I saw them. Some extra monetary refund might assuage my disappointment, but I would still notice them.

I still do not understand manufacturers using (what appears to be) that awful kevlar felt as skid plate material.

If NorthStar is willing to replace the Phoenix I would skip the factory skid plates, and when the stems are sufficiently scratched and scraped, showing where the actual wear areas are (usually different length & width bow and stern), install my own Dynel or Dynel & Glass sandwich skid plates to cover the areas actually needed.

Those would be lighter, smoother and less gurgley, and properly installed, with some graphite powder and black pigment, that skid plate would be the better suited size and shape, and jet black would look a lot nicer than sickly kevlar. I’m surprised NorthStar doesn’t at least pigment the epoxy on the kev felt to better match the hull, or go full graphite powder and black pigment.

 

[Canotrouge]

I'm with Mike, I never buy a canoe again with skid plate.... And a reason is if the canoe need skid plate to start with the manufacturer should have that area build accordingly and the "skid plate" incorporated into the built. Just like John Millbrook boats does and some others too!! Skid plate are needed to fix a worn or damaged bow and sterns IMO. I would definitely send them the pictures, but I doubt they will do anything about it!

 

[Guest]

I'm with Mike, I never buy a canoe again with skid plate.... And a reason is if the canoe need skid plate to start with the manufacturer should have that area build accordingly and the "skid plate" incorporated into the built. Just like John Millbrook boats does and some others too!!

I am assuming that the internal lamination schedule for a high-end composite includes some extra XZY material at the stems for added wear protection. Lamination schedules have become more thoughtful and scientific than just slap on a couple extra pieces of cloth, incorporating different materials, bias cuts and designed overlays.

After 50 years of manufactured composite successes and failure layup schedules have become a science.

I agree, I would never buy a new canoe with skid plates. I would trust the stems on an IXP composite not to shatter on impact, and would much prefer to install my own (Dynel) skid plates a couple years down the river, when the scrapes and scratches show me exactly where.

Which, with my size, gear load, preferred trim, paddling style and waters, may be different than the best-guess at the factory.

 

[gumpus]

Black Fly, I think the first thing you should do is decide what you want. Do you want a replacement boat? Would you want some sort of compensation to keep the boat since it is not first quality but is blemished? Do you just want your money back so you can go with brands with more integrity (perhaps a Hemlock SRT instead of a Phoenix? they have very similar performance envelopes). Then go and have a calm talk with your dealer...I think the only thing they can certainly offer you is a replacement boat which is probably what you want. When I ordered a Northstar Polaris and it came with many little manufacturing defects I wrote an FU note to the manufacturer but ultimately learned that my dealer had to make it right since they bought the boats from Northstar. I ended up getting a brand new first quality Polaris many months later but even that is BS in my view since I think Northstar was negligent in shipping the original boat and representing it as first quality (boat was near $4k!). I have seen a lot of Bells with blems and now I see a lot of Northstars with blems but at least Northstar now seems more willing to follow up with disgruntled customers.

Even if the crooked skid plate doesn't bother you it would almost certainly devalue the boat to anyone wanting to buy it in the future.

I worked in automotive where the manufacturer is expected to find and resolve manufacturing defects before the product reaches the customer and if they don't do a good job they won't stay in business. I think it's especially disappointing when a "premium" brand lets the customer do their quality control.

 

[saltandsky]

It's brand new .... I suspect you paid good money for the canoe and that skid pad should be straight. You are going to add your own blemishes over time, but IMO you shouldn't start with issues.

I would send those pics to the manufacturer and ask them to make it right.

Brian

I agree with Cruiser.

I know it would bug me every time I looked at it.

 

[Black_Fly]

Yeah, the toughest thing is I have trip planning going on. This one took about 10 weeks.

 

[Guest]

Even if the crooked skid plate doesn't bother you it would almost certainly devalue the boat to anyone wanting to buy it in the future.

Blackfly, if you opt to keep the canoe and have it in time for spring trips, I might more evenly tape off a skid plate perimeter and paint it something less contrasting, either matching/complementary to the IXP, or just easily retouched black.

At least that way the off-kilter install would be less of a constant visual reminder.

 

[sweeper]

OR add SP material lacking side.

Then again are you going to see it when it's in the water?

 

[Black_Fly]

Ideally, I'd have this to play with a little before a big trip. In addition, the felt is undersaturated with resin, soft, fuzzy to touch. Man it is a beautiful boat except for this. I'd definitely reorder without the skids. Turns out, I do a pretty passable job with these.

Hard to understand how such a good boat ended up getting skids installed so poorly.

 

[Zac]

That is very disappointing. I would be very upset.

In your situation, I would contact the manufacturer, express my disappointment and demand a full refund including shipping costs with the aim of eventually negotiating to as large of a reimbursement as possible for keeping the canoe.

Then I'd invest that refund in premium gear. Maybe something in cuben fiber or a proprietary sil-nylon. Take some good away from the affair. Smile, don't cringe, when it takes that first scrape. And put some proper skid plates on it next winter.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Dear Mr. Fly:

I think you know what you need to do. You didn’t shell out good money for sub-standard quality.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Hard to understand how the final sale was made
I ordered a boat from Ted some 20 years ago
When it arrived it was the wrong color
The dealer and Ted offered me 15 percent off for their mistake or I could wait for the next shipment
How this glaring mistake got by so many eyes befuddles me BF
What were the circumstances of its arrival?

 

[Guest]

In addition, the felt is undersaturated with resin, soft, fuzzy to touch.

I don’t know about soft and fuzzy, but a bit under saturated is better than resin rich with kevlar felt.

the worst condition kevlar skid plates I have seen were those installed oversaturated resin-rich, where someone opted to use every ounce of the pricey resin they purchased in a pricey kit.


The last of the kevlar felt skid plates I installed were resin saturated just enough, not globbed on thick, and that seems to have helped with wear and longevity

That skid plate is mighty crooked. The photos of the canoe inverted on your truck racks in the “She’s here” thread show how badly misaligned the stern skid plate was installed.

For the life of me I don’t understand why, if a manufacturer insists on using kevlar felt, they don’t at least pigment the resin so the skid plate isn’t baby crap yellow.

 

[Black_Fly]

Hard to understand how the final sale was made
I ordered a boat from Ted some 20 years ago
When it arrived it was the wrong color
The dealer and Ted offered me 15 percent off for their mistake or I could wait for the next shipment
How this glaring mistake got by so many eyes befuddles me BF
What were the circumstances of its arrival?

Well, thats an interesting story. Bottom line is I drove 20 miles out of my way home, and no one at the store with any authority or canoe knowledge. I pointed out my misgivings and told them I would call the owner. I've known him for 15 years and bought 8 canoes from him over the years, so I know him and he'll help facilitate the process. However, I did not thoroughly examine the bottom, just the ends and the softness of the install.

 

[Canotrouge]

If they are under saturated and soft, you/they might be able to peel them off and redo the work properly!