We-no-nah solo canoe - advice please

[Erica]

There is one for sale within driving distance of my house.

https://lakeland.craigslist.org/boa/d/we-no-nah-solo-canoe-light/6376013725.html

I paddled one like this on ADK lakes, but wondering if anyone has paddled one on a river - not white water, but one with a decent current. Seems like it would be difficult to steer in current.

Thanks,
Erica

 

[Mason]

That looks like perhaps an Advantage, which is a detuned race boat. It is an excellent flatwater tripping boat, and is suitable for certain types of rivers, mostly those that don't require quick changes of direction. I've paddled fast Wenonah solo boats on lots of rivers, and, because they are relatively slow to respond to directional changes (compared to "slower" boats with rocker, etc.), some river skills are necessary, mainly being able to read the current and be able to interpret what the currents will do to the boat. So, it depends on the river--the boat will be challenging on fast rivers with waves and obstructions. Slower rivers, or even flatwater creeks should be no problem. Paddling fast boats on rivers is different than paddling maneuverable boats--leaning the boat to steer is a very effective way to complement steering strokes.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Erica, since you are within driving distance of Lakeland, I assume you are in Florida, which to me means this canoe would be satisfactory for many of your abundant waters.

First, as I suppose you know, this is a sit & switch type of hull, meant to be paddled with a bent shaft using racing style hand switches. As Mason says, it wants to go straight and fast and will be reluctant to turn except in big arcs or with really radical hull heels. Therefore, it might not be as good as a more maneuverable canoe for tight and turny rivers such as Juniper Springs or Rock Springs or in small streams that are choked with blow-downs, logs and stumps.

On the other hand, its speed will allow you to go upstream on spring runs and wider rivers much more easily than a turny canoe. You don't have the kind of rapids and obstructions in your rivers that canoeists do in elevated topographies. You will have no problem going downstream on wider rivers and spring runs and you will be able to go upstream too with relative ease if you are a good paddler. Naturally, it will present no problems on lakes and protected salt water areas, as those are all straight ahead paddling.

In short, I'd say a Wenonah rocket hull is a very good choice for most Florida waters, if you like the seated hit & switch style of paddling. If you want to kneel and paddle with single-sided corrections strokes, it's not naturally a good choice. (You'd probably have to modify or remove the sliding pedestal seat.) Take it for a test paddle.

 

[Erica]

Thanks, guys. This is sort of what I thought too, but wanted to check before I made the drive. Good point about the upstream paddling. I would have to modify it for kneeling OR...I could use as is for upstream paddling. There are some streams and springs I haven't paddled due to not being strong enough to paddle upstream much. Most of the Wenonahs for sale down here are priced around $2000 used, so this is a particularly good price if it is in good condition. Light weight of course being another consideration for me.

So from what you all are saying, would this be a good boat for a lake circuit in La Verendrye?

 

[flyingbison]

Light weight of course being another consideration for me.

Assuming this is tuff-weave, as the ad says, it should be close to 50 lbs.

 

[Mason]

Looking at the boat again, it appears to be an older boat (though appears to be in excellent shape), as it has "center rib stiffening", which they stopped making probably 15 years ago. For $500, it is a good deal regardless. I still paddle a 35 year old Wenonah, that has been ridden hard and put away wet, and it's still reliable. Weight-wise, it should be somewhere around 45 pounds or so. For flatwater and upstream paddling, it will be a joy. I'd think twice about changing the seat for kneeling--once you experience the efficiency of the hull and sit-and-switch paddling, especially for upstream, you may not want to change anything. Add a carbon bent shaft paddle and you'll really be enjoying life. For the price, you can still get another boat later for kneeling in and/or freestyle.

Also, it may have the older small tractor seat. If so (can't tell from the photo), you might be able to kneel around the seat, your legs between the seat and the bilge. I've knelt with my old Wenonah (C1W) for whitewater.

 

[cflcanoe]

I looked at the add for this canoe rhe day they posted it. It is a open water or lake boat. Have one Like it in another brand. It sits on the wall while the Wildfire and Mohawk solo 14 get used. Due to the type of water we have between Orlando and Ocala a more nimble boat meets my needs better. Nine canoe at a good price though. Especially if you can have more than one.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I looked at the add for this canoe rhe day they posted it. It is a open water or lake boat. Have one Like it in another brand. It sits on the wall while the Wildfire and Mohawk solo 14 get used. Due to the type of water we have between Orlando and Ocala a more nimble boat meets my needs better. Nine canoe at a good price though. Especially if you can have more than one.

Erica we're not sure where you want to paddle. That one would be a handful on Juniper, should work on Rock Springs ( after its desnagged and open) would work on Silver. I'd not want it on twisty mangrove tunnels as sometimes found in the Everglades. Nor the Blackwater or sections of the Hillsborough River that I have paddled .. ( just a small fraction of the entire river). You can make it work but boy will it be work to maneuver.

We'll be coming to Lakeland in February. Circle Bar B got me interested in birding and trying to get good(?) photos of birds.

Interestingly enough Mike Galt designed the Lotus BJX to outrun tides and make time in the open areas of the Everglades. Its also a long narrow go ahead boat. An early solo design which taught the paddler fast. ( also got paddlers wet fast)

Do Mohawk solos ever show up for sale in Florida? The Solo 13 and 14 were great boats when Mohawk was in Longwood. I mourn that Mohawk is no longer making boats. They were light and inexpensive and very well made.

So the boat you are interested in has pluses and minuses as all boats do. Its a lot of boat to drive at 16.5 feet, Most touring ( camping ) solos top out at 15 feet. The Advantage was designed as a training boat for racers or those interested in building speed and cardio strength. Just personally it would not be my first choice but the price certainly is attractive. Sometimes we can't be fussy.

 

[Guest]

So the boat you are interested in has pluses and minuses as all boats do. Its a lot of boat to drive at 16.5 feet.

Just personally it would not be my first choice but the price certainly is attractive. Sometimes we can't be fussy.

That is a good price, and for open water lakes and protected bays the Advantage has an advantage. It is a rocket. Once you learn how to handle it, especially in any wind without a load, it will fly. It will never turn as well as a hull with some rocker, and the Advantage has zero rocker.

If you are a smaller or lighter weight paddler that is a lot of long, lean canoe to handle in any quartering wind.

Actually smaller, or at least shorter, may be an, uh, advantage. I was uncomfortable keeping my head inside those 29 inch wide gunwales. Not as dicey as the Voyager with 27 inch gunwales, but definitely not my inattentive style either.

EDIT

Do Mohawk solos ever show up for sale in Florida? The Solo 13 and 14 were great boats when Mohawk was in Longwood. I mourn that Mohawk is no longer making boats. They were light and inexpensive and very well made.

For something like the Sante Fe, Suwannee, spring runs or Nature Coast the Mohawk Solo 13 or 14 would be excellent canoe choices. Mohawk was a factory direct manufacturer, in Florida. They gotta come up used occasionally.

 

[stripperguy]

While I haven't paddled that specific design, it's very similar to a DY Special. I built a stripped DY Special a few years back...it was extremely fast and somewhat maneuverable, but don't roll it too far or you're swimming. Kneeling will work better for maneuvers, sit n switch for speed.
My DY (and likely that Advantage) suffered from a severe case of stern hook. A following wind from a quarter would twist the boat right out from under me. Something to think about on bigger water. In larger rollers, it was unmanageable.

In any case, I would grab that boat and enjoy it, it's certainly not overpriced. You'll like the speed and glide.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Mohawks were Royalex canoes. I don't think Royalex is the best material for a Florida canoe. It's too heavy and it's resistance to puncture and wrapping is unnecessary in Florida waters.

Male or female, I would get the lightest canoe possible for Florida, especially if you are prone to getting older and weaker or already are. Light canoes are expensive new, but can often be found used. By light, I mean in the range of 12 pounds (e.g., a Hornbeck) to 35 pounds. Sure, you can find places in Florida with limestone ledges or oyster bars that can scratch up a lightweight composite canoe, but you can also avoid those places in favor of 100 others.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Mohawks were Royalex canoes. I don't think Royalex is the best material for a Florida canoe. It's too heavy and it's resistance to puncture and wrapping is unnecessary in Florida waters.

Male or female, I would get the lightest canoe possible for Florida, especially if you are prone to getting older and weaker or already are. Light canoes are expensive new, but can often be found used. By light, I mean in the range of 12 pounds (e.g., a Hornbeck) to 35 pounds. Sure, you can find places in Florida with limestone ledges or oyster bars that can scratch up a lightweight composite canoe, but you can also avoid those places in favor of 100 others.

Solo 13 came in at 33 lbs. I had one. Solo 14 would of course be heavier. Those models were not Royalex but rather Royalite (r-84.) and were quite lighter than you would expect. I have used my Rapidfire(23 lbs) ( carbon fiber/kevlar) as an emery board on so many oyster bars in the Everglades you would think it would be worn out.. Not so.

If R-84 were not suitable for Florida waters, I wonder why Mohawk was from Longwood..I'm discounting the knife tendencies of sharp limestone and oysters in favor of the prudent paddler not in a livery craft.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Mohawk made plastic boats because they are a lot cheaper to make than composite boats and cheap was where their market was. The market for cheap plastic boats is still the biggest, particularly in Florida, except they aren't called canoes anymore, but rec kayaks and SOT's. Mohawks were quite popular in the northeast as whitewater canoes, but I frankly never saw many in Florida and I've been paddling there since 1970.

It's my opinion -- not necessarily Mohawk's or anyone else's -- that a lightweight composite is the ideal material for a Florida canoe. I thought a 55 pound canoe was light until I picked up a 45 pound one, which I thought was light until I picked up a 35 pound one, which I thought was light until I picked up a 25 pound one. Et cetera. Now, when I go canoeing in Florida, I only take my sub-40 pound canoes. I don't want to pick up anything else. I wish I could get a sub-30 pound kneeling canoe, but that may not be in the remaining cards.

As Horace Greeley presciently said in the mid-1800's, "Go light, young paddler, go light." Mike Galt and John Berry told me the same thing in the 1980's. They were right then and are even more right at my current age. Too bad they didn't make their own boats light enough. Over 40 pounds . . . ugh!!!

 

[Erica]

Thanks for all the comments. Going to see/paddle the boat tomorrow.

I already have a fiberglass Mohawk 15 ft tandem that I paddle backwards, and a 16 ft Mad River royalex that I used for the long trips (with partner). Brad has a 14 ft Mohawk solo of royalex. I used to be able to make do with these, but now that I am older I'm looking for boats designed for more specific situations to leverage my capabilities.

I spent a day with John Berry and a couple of friends in one of his then new prototypes. He is the first person to teach me an eddy turn. This was many many years ago. I haven't heard his name in a long time. Brings back memories. That little solo canoe was the devil to keep upright if you weren't moving.

Erica

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I spent a day with John Berry and a couple of friends in one of his then new prototypes. He is the first person to teach me an eddy turn. This was many many years ago. I haven't heard his name in a long time. Brings back memories. That little solo canoe was the devil to keep upright if you weren't moving.

Flashback?
ME?
MJM?
Fog? (his last, and tippiest, before he sold the business to John Kazimierczyk in 1988)

I took a three day course with John in 1983 and ended up buying two canoes from him, who became a good friend.

 

[Jim Dodd]

One never has TOO many canoes !
At that price, certainly worth a look !

Jim

 

[Grandpa Paddler]

One never has TOO many canoes !
At that price, certainly worth a look !

Jim

Jim,

Would you be be kind enough to tell me how to convince my wife that I can't have too many canoes? I mentioned that I wanted to start looking for a new canoe and she wanted to know which two I was getting rid of. I only have four and one of those I share with my son. Am I being unreasonable?

 

[goonstroke]

One never has TOO many canoes !
...

Jim,

Would you be be kind enough to tell me how to convince my wife that I can't have too many canoes? ...

I told my mother you can never have too many canoes, and she said "Oh, you mean they're like shoes." Maybe that's the angle.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Jim,

Would you be be kind enough to tell me how to convince my wife that I can't have too many canoes? I mentioned that I wanted to start looking for a new canoe and she wanted to know which two I was getting rid of. I only have four and one of those I share with my son. Am I being unreasonable?

Yes ! I have used several methods, that I will reluctantly devulge. You must Swear to Secrecy !

#1. Over inflate the actual value ! " Dear ! That's a $2,000 canoe ! I just paid $500 ! I couldn't pass it up !"
#2. This works especially good for paddles ! " Dear, always start out with Dear ! ! " Dear, you know how people spend $300 for a Terry Redlin Print ? Well to me that paddle is like a Terry Redlin Print !"
#3. My Favorite ! I buy the canoe, and store it at a friends ( Alan). Then under the cover of darkness, I sneak it home and into the storage building, that she never enters !

Jim

 

[dougd]

I had the chance many moons ago to buy the Lotus BJX for a song and dance. Paddled it maybe 4 times before I realized it wasn't the boat for me. Got it for around 400$ and sold it for 600$ so was quite happy. Very nice hull but not for me.