Pricing on a used Solo Merlin II or Hemlock Peregrine

[Fredb]

Hi folks, I am working on getting a used Hemlock Peregrine or Bell Merlin II for solo day trips and occasional weekend ventures. I live in western Mass.

Is there some general advice on how much one should pay for such a boat. I have seen some discussion on this site of sales in 2017 that looked like a 15 or so year old Merlin II for $1000 but needing a bit of work (Handles and inside fraying of fibers), and one for $1,200 (not sure of condition) and a proposed refurbished canoe (the first one) price of $1,400. There is an '07 Peregrine at Hemlock for $2600 and a Kestrel on craigslist for $2,000 in like new shape. I do not mind getting a slightly stressed canoe that is cheaper but performs in the water equal to a nice one.

Any advice on what i should consider a decent fair market price would be appreciated. The examples above leave me a bit confused as to if i should be looking at $1,200 or $2,600 of if both are within the range of fair depending on condition.

thanks so much, frederick

 

[M Clemens]

You should take a drive over to see Dave Curtis and try his solo trippers. I just bought a Kestrel last month from him. You can try anything in the shop, and he has a couple of old Sawyer solos that are a real bargain.

 

[Fredb]

Good advice. It is 5 hrs each way so I am hoping to combine it with an available target canoe for possible purchase. The Sayers are certainly in my price range, where as the ‘07 Peregrine is out of my reach.

Thanks, frederick

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm not sure what used canoe prices have done in the past year or so but unless demand has seriously dropped you can just ignore pre-pandemic prices.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I am working on getting a used Hemlock Peregrine or Bell Merlin II

Those are two very nice and quite similar solo canoes. In my experience, the Peregrine has a bit more initial stability and the Merlin II turns a bit more easily. There are not many of either on the market, so you may wait a long time to find one in your price range and driving distance.

Dave Curtis will almost always have a Peregrine in his used inventory. He's either selling from his demo fleet or selling some third party's canoe on consignment. His prices for consignment canoes are likely a little higher than if you found the same one directly from a motivated owner-seller, but you will know that you are getting an honestly evaluated product and top service if you need it.

You also have to decide whether you want a kneeling or sitting canoe. While you can paddle them seated, the Peregrine and Merlin II were designed primarily as kneeling canoes. Many Sawyers came from racing roots, and hence were designed primarily for seated paddling on bucket seats with bent shaft hit & switch technique.

 

[M Clemens]

Important to consider layups when making price comparisons, as well. For Bell, they range from White Gold, Kevlight/KevCrystal, and Black Gold and for Hemlock, Kevlar/Hybrid, Premium Plus and Litetech with corresponding pricing levels.

 

[Fredb]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice. I will try to get out and try one of these solos to see what feels best. I kneel some of the time but at 57 YO and having one replaced knee and another in a few years, my kneeling will certainly end soon. I am not too partial to the race style boats, but if you can not sit in a Bell or Hemlock solo that may be where i end up. They all offer dropped seats and the option of installing foot bars. Can you not gain sufficient stability to work these boats with such a set up, even if you do not attain the maneuverability and control of a kneeling set up?

I will keep looking for a way to try one of these solo canoes. Currently i paddle ( been out 10 times ) a Rainbow Boatworks, 72#, 15.5 ft, 36 in wide tandem with reverse rocker. It is a clunker. I have no idea if i will even be able to stay upright in a sleeker boat. I am a quick learner but I am not sure my experience in this beast even translates to a nice solo. Once i get one it will be a prounanced learning curve.

thanks for the help. sounds like prices can be all over the place and currently very high. That is an unfortunate market for the buyer...kind of like with used cars right now.

take care, fred

 

[kbobb]

Fred - I sit in my Peregrine without any issues. I use both single and double blade paddles dpending on my mood and water/wind. Had Dave C. install sitting drops but also got a set of kneeling seat mounts if I want to use them.

As far as canoe prices - my attitude was I can spend my days/weeks/months looking at the computer waiting for the right deal or I can get what I want, spend more money than I wanted, but be out on the water enjoying life. That's why I just went ahead and got the peregrine and have been enjoying it, in fact just got in off the water now.

 

[Fredb]

Those are two very nice and quite similar solo canoes. In my experience, the Peregrine has a bit more initial stability and the Merlin II turns a bit more easily. There are not many of either on the market, so you may wait a long time to find one in your price range and driving distance.

Dave Curtis will almost always have a Peregrine in his used inventory. He's either selling from his demo fleet or selling some third party's canoe on consignment. His prices for consignment canoes are likely a little higher than if you found the same one directly from a motivated owner-seller, but you will know that you are getting an honestly evaluated product and top service if you need it.

You also have to decide whether you want a kneeling or sitting canoe. While you can paddle them seated, the Peregrine and Merlin II were designed primarily as kneeling canoes. Many Sawyers came from racing roots, and hence were designed primarily for seated paddling on bucket seats with bent shaft hit & switch technique.

Fred - I sit in my Peregrine without any issues. I use both single and double blade paddles dpending on my mood and water/wind. Had Dave C. install sitting drops but also got a set of kneeling seat mounts if I want to use them.

As far as canoe prices - my attitude was I can spend my days/weeks/months looking at the computer waiting for the right deal or I can get what I want, spend more money than I wanted, but be out on the water enjoying life. That's why I just went ahead and got the peregrine and have been enjoying it, in fact just got in off the water now.

That is very good to hear. Dave Curtis said it is better to view these boats as kneel or sit and just understand that they will behave a little differently with each set up. Did you find the need to put in foot braces?

Understood completely on the time and money factor of spending all that time looking for the perfect used canoe (or anything for that matter) to "get a deal" or save off the New price. Still i have no ability to spend $3.5k on this boat. I am getting more comfortable raising my upper limit, if the right one comes along and just being done with search and on the water, as you say.

thanks for letting me know your experience with the sitting set up.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Dave Curtis said it is better to view these boats as kneel or sit and just understand that they will behave a little differently with each set up.

Fred, now that you have clarified that you will be a sitter, there is no doubt that you can lower the seat in a Peregrine and most solo canoes to get more initial stability. You may prefer a flat bench seat rather than the standard Conk (a member here) seat, which is curved and canted for kneeling comfort. Dave Curtis will recommend the right seat if you buy a canoe from him, and you can try different canoes with different seats.

There is no doubt that you will experience a big stability difference going from a soloing a 36" wide canoe to one that is 28.5". Most people adjust easily within one season. The Hemlock Eaglet can be paddled tandem or solo and is wider than the Peregrine. There is a used Peregrine in very good condition on Dave's site for $2595, which I'm sure he'd let you demo with some advance notice. New ones would cost at least $1000 more.

 

[stripperguy]

Fred,
I have a strip built Kite that you may want to test paddle. It's a comfortable, versatile hull, 39 lbs.
I rarely use it since I built a lighter carbon copy of it.
I'm in the capital district, NY, about 30 minutes from the MA border...

 

[recped]

I'm not sure what used canoe prices have done in the past year or so but unless demand has seriously dropped you can just ignore pre-pandemic prices.

Alan

From what I've seen, used canoes have increased at least 50% in the past 5 years, some models that don't show up often have possibly doubled, of course you can still buy an MR Explorer or Old Town for only slightly more than 5 years ago especially if you can wait for a few weeks for a better deal to show up.

 

[Fredb]

Fred, now that you have clarified that you will be a sitter, there is no doubt that you can lower the seat in a Peregrine and most solo canoes to get more initial stability. You may prefer a flat bench seat rather than the standard Conk (a member here) seat, which is curved and canted for kneeling comfort. Dave Curtis will recommend the right seat if you buy a canoe from him, and you can try different canoes with different seats.

There is no doubt that you will experience a big stability difference going from a soloing a 36" wide canoe to one that is 28.5". Most people adjust easily within one season. The Hemlock Eaglet can be paddled tandem or solo and is wider than the Peregrine. There is a used Peregrine in very good condition on Dave's site for $2595, which I'm sure he'd let you demo with some advance notice. New ones would cost at least $1000 more.

Thanks for the update Glenn. Helpful information and Dave will be a great resource for what ever i end up with. The Peregrine is interesting and I will certainly head over there sometime before the fall. Hoping to line the trip up with at least one canoe in my price range.

 

[Fredb]

From what I've seen, used canoes have increased at least 50% in the past 5 years, some models that don't show up often have possibly doubled, of course you can still buy an MR Explorer or Old Town for only slightly more than 5 years ago especially if you can wait for a few weeks for a better deal to show up.

thanks for the info. seems like it is a bad time to buy a canoe...or a car...or many things )-:

 

[Fredb]

Fred,
I have a strip built Kite that you may want to test paddle. It's a comfortable, versatile hull, 39 lbs.
I rarely use it since I built a lighter carbon copy of it.
I'm in the capital district, NY, about 30 minutes from the MA border...

thanks stripperguy, I will keep that in mind, and look into what a Kite is?? I just got an offer to try out a few solo canoes of a neighbors and so may get some experience beyond my big tandem . A Placid Boatworks and a Wenonah Solitude. If i am able to use those some, my experience accessing other boats may be more productive.
thanks again, fred

 

[Alan Gage]

thanks stripperguy, I will keep that in mind, and look into what a Kite is??

It's basically an osprey with some modifications to the tumblehome. It's not available commercially but cedar strip plans are available and is a popular design. Stripperguy's would be an excellent one to get your hands on if you thought it would fit your needs.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Fred,
I have a strip built Kite that you may want to test paddle.

thanks stripperguy, I will keep that in mind, and look into what a Kite is??

It's basically an osprey with some modifications to the tumblehome.

If Fred doesn't know what a Kite is, he may not know what an Oprey is.

John Winters is a naval architect who was once the principal canoe and kayak designer for Swift Canoes in Canada. Winters designed the Osprey to be his personal solo canoe. It became a very popular model for Swift.

Winters modified the specs slightly for the Osprey to be strip built as a Kite, with plans or build kits available from different vendors.

Swift Canoe Osprey

Length: 15’ Materials: Expedition Kevlar®, Kevlar Fusion, Carbon Fusion The Osprey draws on the lessons learned from our highly acclaimed tandem, the Dumoine. Through skillful manip…

canoeing.com

Kite | Guillemot Kayaks

Ideal Small Solo Canoe For Wilderness Travel

guillemot-kayaks.com

Kite Plans - A John Winters Design

Green Valley John Winters Kite Cedar Strip Canoe Kit : Kit-kite : Noahsmarine.com - Kit Configuration Page

We have GREEN VALLEY JOHN WINTERS KITE CEDAR STRIP CANOE KIT - KIT-KITE in stock along with other 14' 10" Kite products at very competitive prices. We carry many other boat building products from Cedar Strip Canoe Plans & Kits and on Noahsmarine.com.

www.noahsmarine.com

 

[stripperguy]

Sorry, I used my iphone before...kinda limited.
I built this Kite in 2014, cedar strips, 1-1/2 layers of 4 oz E-glass on the outside, single layer of 4 oz E-glass on the inside. Dynel wrapped stems, fully sealed bulkheads and decks, carbon fiber over foam gunnels, thwarts, seat pedestals. Red pigmented epoxy resin (RAKA) with red Interlux paint on the outside only.

Here's a couple pics

 

[Fredb]

Very helpful to have all the links and references. The boat looks beautiful. I will get to try a couple of decent solo boats tomorrow and have a little better idea of what these boats can do...or more what i can do in them, likely after a few spills!
thanks for the info and the photos and descriptions. I did run across this boat in one of the threads here on the website. Brings me back to the brief woodworking days of my early 20s. Life took me elsewhere and i have not had one since (not wood, i make soap). If i ever get a shop built I will certainly consider such a project.

thanks again, fred

 

[kbobb]

Did you find the need to put in foot braces?

thanks for letting me know your experience with the sitting set up.

Hi Fred - regarding the foot brace - I am used to one as the stern paddler in a Minn 2 so I find myself kinda wanting it in the peregrine. But, because it is a solo I don't want to use up footspace with a permanent foot brace, especially if I ever choose to kneel. I have just come up with a rope/PVC pipe thing that I tie to the thwart behind the seat and extend under the seat to where a foot brace would be, using the pipe as a brace. It's pretty half-a$$ed looking and I haven't really used it yet - will let you know the gory details next time I get out.