Thoughts on double bladed paddles from a somewhat experienced double blader.

[lowangle al]

I had to look up Serge Corbin to see that he is a marathon racer. I'm sure his race results wouldn't have been the same if he mainly used correction strokes. My gut feeling is that I go 10 to 15% faster by switching. I think the Canadians aversion to switching goes back to their reverance for Bill Mason.

I started out as a 100% correction stroke guy for my first 12 or 13 years but became almost 100% sit and switch, because it got me where I was going quicker. That lasted about 25 years when most of my paddling was done on trips and I was always pressed for time and pushing it. The last 7 or 8 years I've been doing more pleasure paddling and have reverted back to doing more correction strokes. Now I do a combination of switching and corrections. When I'm exclusively switching it is the wind that dictates when I switch sides, I almost always paddle on the downwind side of the boat.

 

[Black_Fly]

I did a test using an app some months ago, and for raw efficiency and speed, it was no contest. Double blade excels. I’ve found the 260cm paddle works best for my size and canoes. I’ve used a double in a variety of solo canoes. There’s no replacing it. I do prefer a single blade many times, and the single is easier on my bad hands, but for wind, waves, big water and getting safely from A to B, a double blade is far superior.

 

[memaquay]

Maybe, but did your app track your progress for an entire day, or a short distance? Based on my limited experience (I have one chum who has gone to the double blade dark side) we both arrive at camp at the end of the day at the same time, but I look better with my classy single stick.

 

[Alan Gage]

Maybe, but did your app track your progress for an entire day, or a short distance? Based on my limited experience (I have one chum who has gone to the double blade dark side) we both arrive at camp at the end of the day at the same time, but I look better with my classy single stick.

For 1/2 mile a dedicated racing canoe is way faster than a 16' quick recreational hull. But after 5 miles the average speed is only a couple tenths of a MPH quicker for the racing hull. At least with me paddling.

I think I still have a double bladed paddle somewhere in the basement and I have a canoe it would be well suited for. One of these nights I'll have to run time trials comparing the single and double. I'll use heart rate as well to track exertion levels. I just need to find a lake where no one will see me.

Alan

 

[Gamma1214]

Yep. Like ridin' a moped...

Not to worry though; there's also the fall back of "pictures or it didn't happen".

 

[Steve in Idaho]

For 1/2 mile a dedicated racing canoe is way faster than a 16' quick recreational hull. But after 5 miles the average speed is only a couple tenths of a MPH quicker for the racing hull. At least with me paddling.

I think I still have a double bladed paddle somewhere in the basement and I have a canoe it would be well suited for. One of these nights I'll have to run time trials comparing the single and double. I'll use heart rate as well to track exertion levels. I just need to find a lake where no one will see me.

Alan

I would want to compare over at least 15 miles of flat with the same amount and direction of wind. Anything else doesn't compare with tripping.
We all know that most people are going to sprint faster with a double. And it still wouldn't be meaningful without a way to track calories expended.

Otherwise, I have to just go with what makes me feel better at the end of the day.

 

[eckilson]

I'm not much of a racer, but I did enter a flatwater race on my local river the Blackstone back in 2010. Looking back at the results, the fastest time was a tandem canoe at 1:52, but that team was only a couple of minutes ahead of the fastest kayak at 1:54. I remember being surprised because I thought two paddlers in a tandem canoe would be a lot faster than a single paddler in a kayak - didn't work out that way. Some of it is the boat, some of it is the paddle, some of it is the paddler, but for going fast it is hard to beat a long, narrow boat and a double blade.

I was the only solo canoe - 2:32 with a single blade in my Yellowstone Solo. Good enough to win a trophy, but I was the only paddler in my division.

 

[Alan Gage]

I would want to compare over at least 15 miles of flat with the same amount and direction of wind. Anything else doesn't compare with tripping.
We all know that most people are going to sprint faster with a double. And it still wouldn't be meaningful without a way to track calories expended.

Well, you can do a 15 mile back to back comparison if you'd like but I'll stick with something a bit more manageable in my evenings.

I did my first test with the single blade last night. I warmed up for a bit and then did a full out sprint for just over a minute. Then I rested a few minutes to get the heart rate back down and paddled a little over 2 miles with a heart rate of 120 bpm. This is a solid zone 2 heart rate for me and something I can sustain for hours on end. It's harder than my regular tripping pace but it's the pace I'd use if I needed to do long open water crossings while the weather held, if I was paddling long distances into the wind, or needed to get to camp before weather moved in. It's sustainable but it takes a little mental effort to keep going that pace. If my mind wanders too much I find myself backing off.

After that was done I rested a few minutes and paddled the .5 mile back to the put in with a heart rate of 100 bpm. This would be my mindless tripping pace where everything is on autopilot and requires no thought or perceived effort.

Tonight, assuming I can find my double blade, I'll repeat the test at the same heart rates and see how the average speeds compare.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm not much of a racer, but I did enter a flatwater race on my local river the Blackstone back in 2010. Looking back at the results, the fastest time was a tandem canoe at 1:52, but that team was only a couple of minutes ahead of the fastest kayak at 1:54. I remember being surprised because I thought two paddlers in a tandem canoe would be a lot faster than a single paddler in a kayak

A lot of this will depend on the hull too. I assume the canoe was a pro boat which, while very fast, is limited by length and width restrictions to keep boats competitive with each other. The kayak may have been in the unlimited category which would mean just that, it can be whatever length and width the paddler wants. Outside of the ultra long distance races there usually isn't an unlimited canoe category.

I remember going to my first race in a 16.5' QCC kayak (fast touring). It was a race for solo canoes/kayaks only and I thought I was going to wipe the floor with everyone. I didn't know there was such a thing as dedicated racing canoes. I was sandwiched between two of them on the starting line. That was the last time I was ever next to them and I finished nearly dead last. It wasn't all the boats fault. My conditioning and technique were terrible (though I didn't know it at the time).

I upgraded to an unlimited kayak (21' long and 18") which, on paper, should have been able to beat those tandem pro boats. The following year we all lined up on the starting line in a mixed solo/tandem race and it was me that jumped out front this time. They caught me after about 1/2 mile and we paddled side by side for another 1/2 mile before they dropped me.

Again, the limiting factor was me despite much better technique and cardio than the previous year.

I have lots of fun stories about getting out padded by slower boats and older paddlers of both genders but I'll save those for another time. Needless to say I quickly realized the boat (and paddle choice) is secondary when it comes to speed. It mostly comes down to the paddler.

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I did my first test with the single blade last night.

Correction or switch stroking? Straight or bent?

 

[yknpdlr]

No serious canoe racer would not use anything except a carbon bent single blade.

 

[Alan Gage]

Correction or switch stroking? Straight or bent?

Switching with a bent.

I was thinking of doing a 3rd test with a straight as well because I've always suspected there isn't actually a difference at casual speeds.

Alan

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Switching with a bent.

I was thinking of doing a 3rd test with a straight as well because I've always suspected there isn't actually a difference at casual speeds.

Alan

I went directly from straight wood paddles to a carbon bent, so for a long time I couldn't know if the improvement was because of the bend or because of the weight. A while back, I picked up a deal on a Bending Branches Viper (double bent). Now I've used that enough that I believe both make a difference. I actually like that Viper more than the Zav for cruising at a lazy pace. I'm still not exactly sure why.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Last week when I was tripping in the Adirondacks for three days with a group of Freestyle instructors, we faced on the first day a fairly long crossing of Osgood Lake in a stiff wind (maybe 6" waves) blowing broadside from my paddle side. I was a bit nervous to make this fairly routine crossing because of a variety of factors: my age, my diminished muscular and physical condition, my new and still-not-familiar Kee 15 canoe, and even my new paddle.

The paddle is a pristine 57" Patrick Moore straight carbon cue that I had just bought at the WCHA Assembly from the massive and still largely unsold collection of seemingly unused Bob Man (deceased) collection. Here is a shot sitting at Ken Kelly's vendor table with some of the Bob Man paddles displayed. Mine is the blue shaft leaning against the table with red and yellow tape near the grip.



Here's the cue with my other favorite flatwater straight paddles in my bedroom, along with a Bruce Smith ottertail, a Brad Gillespie Free (designed by me), and a 0-bend ZRE.



Anyway, I was nervous about making this crossing in the stiff, on-side beam wind, which forced me either to do a strong and stalling correction on my on-side (right) or switch to my less confident off-side (left) in a new boat with a new paddle. This all sort of worked, alternating between those two alternatives.

However, I also had with me my 48.5" ZRE 12° Power Surge bent shaft paddle, which is my favorite bent. I began to use that, switched to uncorrected switch paddling, and made much better and more confident time across the lake than with correction strokes. A double paddle would also have been effective in that situation, albeit somewhat more clumsy because I was taking more uncorrected strokes on the left (downwind) side than the right, but I haven't used a double paddle in a canoe since 1981.

Since Mike Galt gave me a bent shaft paddle in 1984, I have always taken a straight and bent in my canoe for every sort canoe trip—and that combo of paddling tools, along with multiple practiced correction and switch techniques, has effectively and elegantly worked for every reasonable canoe job.

Just my experience and preferences.