The Other end of the telescope.....

[oldie moldy]

Bob B's search for something encouraging about Chessies and the general question of dog's for canoes, got me to thinking. A slow process, true, but I believe that some of all the blab to follow will be helpful. I sure hope so anyway.

As my dogs and I go about, we are often around people who express amazement at how well behaved the dogs are (me, not so much) and the stranger will often talk about "dog whisperer" and similar nonsense. It's not that I'm such a hotshot trainer but that they and the public in general have become so estranged from working with animals of any kind and even the most fundamentals of training, that a under control dog seems wonderful and strange. (if you don't believe me, look at their kids)

Almost everyone has seen some program about dog with jobs, the dogs performing some valuable complicated task for it's handler but somehow that never gets translated into "I can train my dog!"

It seems that most are content to pour a hundred pounds of kibble in one end of the dog and clean up the resulting one hundred and fifty pounds of poop from the other. (don't ask me but I just know)

The deepening of the bond between dog and master as any kind of training takes place is truly wonderful to experience. Of course this degree of inter meshing between man and dog has been going of for thousands of years. We just need to rediscover it.

I won't go through all the list of proper behaviors that the ideal "canoe dog" should have, we've talked about them before and anyway they are the same as are taught under basic obedience.

You will have noticed that I haven't said anything about what kind of dog: that's because it isn't anywhere near as important as the training you will do with the dog. If a person isn't going to train the dog, he'd be better off with a potted plant. And much more socially acceptable. Although he can expect some curious looks with that on the end of his leash.

WHAT TO DO:
Go to Amazon and read about the dog training books they offer. Read the evaluations, see which books have gone through several printings. Pick three that seem to have some appeal, some connection to you. Dog training is a process that you will need to "buy into" and if you don't like a particular author or methodology then why not look for some system that you will be more at home with.
So, you have your three titles; go to your library and see if they are on the shelves. (I'm cheap) If not then buy them used and read them, digest them, wear the print down a little and then discard two.
You want one cook in the kitchen and one method that you will follow.

Go to a animal shelter where they kill the dogs that they can't find homes for. From the death row bunch, pick a smallish dog that seems friendly and not scared. A older pup maybe about a year old would be good. I would never have a pit bull or pit bull mix or anything that looks like one. If you have to ask or want to argue then I'd recommend that potted plant.

Train your dog using the book you've selected. It's not really that hard but it will take diligence and effort. Follow the book step by step and give yourself and the pup a chance. It's not the kind of thing that if you make a mistake all is lost in an instant. Just don't never act in anger. If you find the burden onerous, then I've got great recommendations for nearly no care potted plants.

Give it a year, I'll bet that you have a great little dog at the end of that year and that you know a whole bunch more about dogs and dog training than you ever did before.
The little death row dog probably has earned a place in you heart and under your table by now. If he hasn't, well if your a whole lot tougher than me, you know what you can do.

Now, about picking a dog for the canoe: go to the computer and look up the characteristics of each breed, who is the most trainable and who is the hardest to train. What genetic defects does a particular breed have? How can you test for these problems? What size can you expect the dog to reach? Will the dog's coat work well in the area where you live. If it's long-haired are you read to do the grooming? Check out how to pick a breeder and a vet.

That's probably enough for now, maybe too much, but I really like dogs and they deserve a fair chance in life to grow up to be good dogs.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Bearleealive]

Very well put, Rob. I wholeheartedly agree, and put in words much better than I ever could.

For a book, I highly recommend Cesar Milan. He really has a great simple, common sense philosophy behind how and why dogs behave as they do.

My thoughts towards training.
Training a dog is not hard at all, you just have to remain diligent, and NEVER slack off. Right from the minute a dog enters my life, it is being trained full time. I don't mean 24/7 of taking it through the paces, I mean 24/7 of guiding it to proper behaviour, with meal time, play time, and all time spent with it. Things like; never allowing the dog to go through a door before you, and to never go through unless permitted; never eating its food until you allow it to; never allow it to pull on a lead; never chase wildlife unless allowed; etc. You may note that I might say NEVER a lot, but I firmly believe that as soon as you slack and let the dog get away with improper behaviour, it just lets it think that this is appropriate behaviour because it is allowed. NEVER give a dog a command, and not follow through to ensure this command is followed.

The deepening of the bond between dog and master as any kind of training takes place is truly wonderful to experience. Of course this degree of inter meshing between man and dog has been going of for thousands of years. We just need to rediscover it.

Just another key point to Rob's excellent post. So many people think that by letting a dog do as it wants, and giving it the freedom to do so, will make the dog love them more (just as many parents do with their kids). This is just not true. The bond between the dog and its owner, who both go through proper training together, is even stronger because of this. There becomes a mutual respect between the two, with each learning what it takes to please each other.

By working full time with the dog from the moment you get it, it will only take a 2-3 months to fully train all the basics, like sit, down, stay, heel, come. After that for a while you may have to do a bit of reinforcement type training, but nothing major.

Having a well trained dog, one that you can take with you everywhere they are allowed, where you do not have to worry about bad behaviour, is worth the small amount of training compared to the long time afterwards that you will enjoy a wonderful lifetime together.

 

[snapper]

Rob - Sound advice. I did essentially what you're recommending over 30 years ago when we got our first dog and it paid dividends. The only other thing I'd add is to spend as much time as you can with the dog so you can really bond. I realize now that I was extremely lucky because I was in between jobs the first summer we got a dog. The amount of time she and I were able to spend together each day was a real bonus. By the time I was back to work 8 weeks later, our young pooch was a true member of the family. Luckily for me the new job was in an outdoor center and she was able to accompany me throughout the day at work so the relationship just continued to get stronger. She was a real joy to have and a great companion for many years.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

PS - She was a beagle/coonhound mix; a real hunter. With good training she was able to walk anywhere with me in the woods and I never had to worry about her running deer or wandering off. Of course, I did take advantage of her dislike of woodchucks. For as long as she lived we never needed a fence around our garden (LOL).

 

[Alan Gage]

It's important to start early. Much easier to not create bad habits than to try and break them later.

Do you want your full grown dog on the furniture, in the bed, or in your lap? If not then don't let the puppy do it, no matter how cute it is. If you want to cuddle then lay on the floor with it.

Don't let your dog jump up on you, or anyone, ever. People come into the office and rather than bending down to pet my dog try to get her to put her paws on their stomach so they can reach easier. She won't do it now but she would when I first got her. I'd tell her to get down, to which the customer would respond that they didn't mind and that it was ok. "I know you don't mind but a lot of people do and she doesn't always know the difference."

Don't feed them people food, at least not while you're eating or from your plate. If you want to put some scraps or left overs in their bowl at feeding time that's fine. My mom used to have a hard time not slipping the dogs little tidbits in the kitchen while she's cooking or from her plate. Then she'd get mad because my dog was always underfoot in the kitchen and staring at her while she was eating. My dog ignores me while I'm cooking and eating. She knows there is nothing to be gained from bothering me.

Be consistent in all you do with your dog. They like consistency and will take advantage otherwise. When I got my dog from a rescue at 1 year old she'd stick her nose right in your face while driving because she wanted to get petted. It was kind of cute at first but annoying too, especially when she'd smear your glasses. So I made a point to never pet her if she did that to me and to lightly reprimand her. As a result she quit doing it. My dad, on the other hand, is not consistent with her in this regard. She sticks her nose in his face and he gives her a quick scratch on the ears. She does it again in a few minutes and he tells her no and pushes her away. He does this a few times and then the next time scratches her ears again. She's not stupid, she knows a little persistence pays off.

And never forget that dogs are better at training their owners than most owners are at training their dogs. You need to keep an eye open for things that are starting to be habitual and if it's a problem do something to break the routine. I used to have a dog that would only very rarely need to wake me in the middle of the night to go outside to the bathroom. Then he did it two nights in a row and suddenly it was a routine. Every night at 2am he'd start whining to go outside. I started watching him when I'd put him out and noticed it wasn't peeing, rather he was just checking things out in the yard and getting some fresh air. After a few nights of this I was convinced he didn't have a real need to go outside at 2am so instead of letting him out the following nights I told him to shut-up and ignored him. It was annoying the first couple nights as he pleaded his case but after 3 nights the old routine was restored.

My dogs doesn't know fancy tricks, or even un-fancy tricks, like how to shake. What she does know is how to behave for the most part and to listen to what I say. As a reward she gets to go nearly everywhere with me and it's the rare day or evening that she's left alone in the house. She's a pleasure to have around whether it's every day at the office or on a 6,000 miles cross country road trip. I think the simple act of spending that much time with a dog does the most amount of good when it comes to training, as long as it's quality time.

We once had a pediatrician for a customer who was an avid bird hunter and dog trainer. In his opinion people shouldn't be allowed to have children until they'd properly raised and trained two dogs. I think I'm there now so if any of you know any eligible bachelorettes please send them my way as pickins are slim around here.

Alan

 

[memaquay]

Excellent post! I would like to add one more thing....everyone in the family has to be on board with training. The dog my wife owns is very well behaved when him and I are alone, and then reverts to a little monster when she is around. He was in the picture long before me, so he is used to getting away with a certain behaviour around her. If I try to correct him when she is there, he becomes quite feisty. Who thought breeding a pug and a chihuahua together was a good idea anyway?

 

[sweeper]

We have a death row pup from NC that is in training now. The only thing I have to add is, the hardest part is training the owner. Training dogs is the easy part.

 

[ppine]

Some thoughtful posts above. I think the best way to train a dog to go a trip in the outdoors is to take them everywhere. Get them used to cars, boats and airplanes at a young age. Get them used to horses, other dogs, llamas, miniature donkeys, goats and any other livestock you can find. Expose them to vacuum cleaners, helicopters and chain saws. The most important thing is to make them listen to you. With a young Border Collie that means exercising first.

My 1 yo is highly functional and capable of going anywhere. So far her manners are not that great yet. She comes from working lines and is a very focused dog. She keeps trying to train me with some success. We are together all the time and she is starting to realize that doing the right thing is a lot less trouble than the alternative.

 

[Guest]

Two simple and invaluable commands that are often overlooked.

“Bed”, or some such command for use in the house telling the dog to go to their place and stay there. Great for when you have visitors or simply need to have the dog out from underfoot. That one is a Kondrad Lorenz command. All of Lorenz canine commands remained in force until he gave a release command.

“Come behind”, especially if you plan to have a dog off leash. That one is a herding command and simply means that the dog needs to get behind you. Great if you paddle with your pooch and see someone (or something) coming down the portage trail.

BTW – A lot of herding dog command have a whistle that means the same thing. If you have the ability to whistle that sound carries a lot further than a vocal command.

I agree that people who get a dog and do not train it are doing themselves and the dog a disservice. Twelve or fifteen years of potentially unruly behavior is a sad price to pay for lack of a few months training.

 

[Philtrum]

This is all good stuff. But the most fundamental concepts haven't been mentioned: dogs are pack animals and they have all the instincts of dogs in the wild. Some of those instincts have been softened but they're still basically wild animals. Nearly all the behavior dogs exhibit is unconscious symbolic behavior. For example, that stick your dog shows you and then won't let you have is a deer leg - and s/he won't let you have it because s/he is dominant over you. That stuffed toy your dog brings to you and lays at your feet is a freshly killed rabbit - and she gives it to you because you're the leader of the pack and you get to eat first; that is, s/he is subordinate to you. You take it, say "good dog," and give it back to show the dog it belongs in the pack. That helps cement the hierarchy. This is what dogs do in the wild. If you expect your dog to behave you have to be the alpha - the leader of the pack - and do what a wild pack leader would do. It's a full-time position and you never get a vacation, not even a break to go to the bathroom.

My Dad used to say, "The most important thing in a dog's life is to know its place in the pack. It's more important than food, and it's more important than sex." He was right. The unwanted behavior most people get from their dogs - jumping up on the furniture, putting their paws on people, barking at other dogs or people, etc. etc. are caused by the dog not knowing its place in the pack. They don't have boundaries so they don't feel safe, and they do what comes naturally to create safety for themselves and their pack members. A lot of dogs aren't comfortable in this role, and their behavior shows it.

If you want a well-behaved dog, you have to create the right relationship, and it does not take a year to establish. Some years ago I adopted a nearly wild two-year-old Great Dane. It took me a few weeks before I finally remembered what my dad had taught me, and it took a week, maybe two, before this alpha b*tch became a contented and subordinate pack member. She went from being a loose and dangerous cannon to a sweet-tempered and well-behaved member of my pack.

Don't just get the most popular dog training book(s). There's a bunch of real crap out there. Yes, Cesar Milan is good. So is Patricia McConnell. I strongly recommend three of her books: The Other End of the Leash, For the Love of a Dog, and The Cautious Canine. And if you're serious, get Brenda Aloff's book, Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide to Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog.

 

[Guest]

First, this is a serious question-really. Anybody ever take a cat canoe tripping? Since my lifestyle doesn't allow owning dogs (which I miss) anymore,I have a real smart wonderful cat named Ditto. I have tried to get him in a canoe,but the only time he got into one willingly was when I had a mouse that got trapped inside one once. Ideas? Shure would solve the chipmunk/red squirrel problem at campsites.
Turtle

 

[Alan Gage]

I've thought about taking my cats in the canoe. They're both pretty cool about things and while I'm sure they'd have a fit at first they just might settle down and enjoy it. I've never had a cat that I'd be comfortable with taking canoe tripping however. I honestly don't know how "trainable" cats are compared to dogs since I've never seen anyone that's made the same effort. I'd think the big thing would be would the cat come when you called it, every time? If the cat was roaming around the woods at the edge of camp and it was either time to leave or time to go to bed I'd want to be sure it would come bounding back, even if it was in the middle of stalking a chipmunk. Otherwise I'd start to worry and would take to the woods myself in order to try and track it down. Of course when I came back to camp empty handed and full of scratches and burrs an hour later it would be non-chalantly grooming itself on my sleeping bag.

I'd also worry, based on experiences with my own cats, how they'd handle "new" situations, especially new animals and new noises. My dog's reaction, if unsure, is to stick close to me and she reads my body language to see how I'm reacting and how nervous she should be. My cats, on the other hand, suddenly grow their eyes to the size of silver dollars and bolt for safety, which in the house is under my bed, no matter what my reaction is. There's nothing I can say or do to calm them down or make them stop. They just want to save themselves and could care less what happens to me. I'd worry about how far they might run in that situation or that they might get themselves into more trouble by initiating something's chase instinct rather than staying put by my side.

But you could always start safe and simple and work up from there. When out in Washington state this summer I did bump into someone who was walking around a small campsite at a lake looking for his cat who he'd been camping with that weekend. Seems some kids had started throwing rocks at it and it took off into the woods and hadn't been seen since. It had been about 3 days and he'd pretty much given up on finding it. I'm sure there are plenty of similar stories with dogs too.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

I think I've seen pictures on paddling.net of a member who takes his cat canoeing.

Alan

 

[memaquay]

This guy...
http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/ShipsCat.html

 

[Odyssey]

Are you people nuts? Cats on a canoe trip!? Doesn't life punish you enough already?!
When I think of canine canoe trips I imagine the soft tendrils of an early morning mist reaching up from shore, wrapping around the campsite with a gentle cool embrace . I hear a soft agreeable grumble of a dog welcoming the dawn with the master, stretching and yawning after last night's mellow evening spent lost in the glowing embers of a dying fire. I feel a languid day beckoning, calmly welcoming a dog and master to find their unhurried pace as they break camp and load the canoe for another day's journey.
And then there are the cat canoe trippers. I imagine the cold grey dawn nipping at exposed chins and elbows, left poking out from a shredded sleeping bag, the result of the dear little feline plucking at the downy covers with sharpened claws till perfectly plumped up...all pin holed and torn. I hear the Mmeeoowwrr! of the danged animal who since late last night couldn't make up it's tiny freak'n mind whether it wanted out, or in, or out, or back in through the tent flap. The same tent flap was left open to avoid that stupid sound of kitty indecision Mmmeeoowwr! That's how all the eff' n mosquitoes got in. Bug bitten and cat harassed the "master" drags a tired and achy body towards the camp kitchen, desperately needing a morning coffee. I feel the anguish of discovery that the hacking sounds intruding upon restless dreams the night before, were in fact made by the little bugger as it coughed up a slurpy fur ball right in the left shoe of it's "master". RRRrriiipppp! goes the sound of claws through tarp fabric as the spoiled little four footed brat chases it's own shadow across the state of the art silnylon canopy. Ssonnaffabiitcch!! is the sound of an inconsolable cat canoe tripper, as it's discovered that the generous stash of rich earthy aromatic coffee grounds awaiting the morning brew up, were mistaken by miss kitty as a litter box.

Ladies and gentlemen. I rest my case.

 

[Philtrum]

Cats, too, have all the instincts of wild animals. They're (mostly) solitary hunters and far less collaborative than dogs, which is why dogs are our friends and cats just take us for all we're worth and then turn tail. Cats are mercenaries while dogs are partners. I've had cats but only two that were trainable. One played catch-and-retrieve and the other was more like a dog than a cat. The rest saw me as a combination food dispenser and scratching post.
Odyssey got it right!

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Boys, sorry, but I've got to bring it up: Turtle (God bless his little pointy head) has once again astounded and entertained with his perception of an appropriate four footed camping partner.
But before we snicker and laugh too much, consider the painful charlie horse kind of suffering that must be going on between his ears! Can we leave a fellow canoer in such desperate straits?

I mean really, have you ever seen someone more in need of INTERVENTION by the canine and handler emergency squad? Now, before all you good hearted guys clammor to pitch in and help, I've got to warn you that this looks to be a pretty grim intervention. I figure at least six guys to hold him down and four Saint Brenards and handlers to provide the necessary slurping/licking to banish the cat demons that seem to have invested our comrade.

To put it in perspective: think water boarding using dog spit/drool. I told you this wasn't for the faint hearted and it won't be pretty, but we will prevail!

So, Turtle... be of good cheer! Help is on the way! Perhaps the very next time you hear a knock on your door it may be us ready to restore you to your proper equilibrium and clean out your ears in the bargain!

No need to thank me, always glad to help!

Rob

 

[Mihun09]

Cats are trainable, you just have to start early! If you don't, they will train you.

One joy of cat ownership is when tripping. If you have a dog that doesn't go with you and you live alone, it is off to a friends or the kennel for the duration. With a cat, put out extra food and water and go, no worries, it/they will take care of themselves.

I had a cat that would fetch.

There are a few things to watch for, if your cat comes to the door you need to hear a fully audible "Meow, let me in", if it is somewhat muffled, don't open the door. It may drop a live garter snake in the middle of your living room floor. I know this to be true.

I doubt I would take a cat tripping, in the past, when taking my feline friend to a rented cottage, he had a tendency to disappear into the bush for a few days, which could hamper canoe travel whilst you go look for said friend. On the upside, you would know the bush around your camp very well and who else lives there.

One minor negative for cats is they tend to multiply, something like bunnies. 3 females which I could not afford to fix produced 5 litters in 13 months. 29 mouths to feed...

At one time I had a pet Raccoon...

 

[Robin]

If cats ever become the norm for canoe trips, no doubt every tree with a portage sign will soon be adorned with "Lost Cat" signs like telephone polls here in Connecticut are.

Coyotes, bobcats, and fishers consider them delicacy's, add lynx and wolves and you better keep a close eye on Tabby

 

[Guest]

I spoke to my cat about this. He can't understand how anyone would think me an animal hater? He goes hunting with me and points and retrieves. I really miss my sheltie which stayed with my first wife-smartest dog I ever saw. Also had a water spaniel that was special. Coincidentally to the previous post, I was driven back into my truck yesterday when putting out the garbage by a neighbors snarling St. Bernard!
Turtle

 

[Odyssey]

I have a sister-in-law who, so the story goes, was bitten by a dog many years ago. She's been frightened to death of dogs ever since. Until last year that is, when her youngest adult daughter came home with a little dog of her own. A tiny little thing, really cute and friendly. My brother and s-i-l were asked/coerced into dog sitting for a day or three, and poof went the canine phobia. Or should I say woof? Anyway, that family are no longer rolling their eyes at dog owners and dissing dogs behind their backs. All it took was an up close and friendly encounter of the canine kind. Despite having had more than my share of unfriendly encounters myself, I've only been frightened once. Er, twice. Neither involved unfriendly behaviour at all. Just the situation. Knowing how to behave, and how not to behave might've helped. Or maybe just luck. The first was a farmyard Rottweiler. I came and went to work there without the reassuring presence of it's owner many times. "Uuhh, you're okay with dogs, aren't you Brad?" I said "No problem. We'll get along just fine." He first could've told me she was bigger than me, and a little protective of her farm. But we were fine. It took some nerve on my part (or nervous stupidity) to arrive every morning to meet and greet an alert big brute who'd be looking at me wondering "Who the hell are you, and do you feel lucky today punk!?" Yes I felt lucky, and I soon became an alpha, or maybe more like a favourite uncle alpha. It worked. But I was always on my toes. The second was a stray Rottie coloured Great Dane that came charging down a trail towards me. From a distance I thought it was a Rottie. I first thought "Really nice colour coat" I next thought "Oh fff......" I got off my bike and waited for his arrival. He was more scared than me. I gave him a drink from my water bottle and we parted fellow trail followers, but not quite friends. That works for me.
Those who are dog less may not be anti dog. I happen to share our home with cats. It was never my decision. Despite being allergic to them, my wife and daughters thought it would all work out fine, and it has. I've grown to like cats. They're capable of some affection, but I'm pretty sure I'm seen as the pet, not them. I bet a cat on a canoe trip could work out just fine, just as small dogs do. Cats are sure footed, though not infallible. They don't always land on their feet. And yes, they're nice light snacks to coyotes, wolves etc. just like any small animal, small dogs too. I'll never trip with any of our cats though. Not because I'm too fond of them, but because I'm not fond enough to want to share my trip with any of them. It's bad enough I share the most comfortable chairs in the house, I don't need to share my holiday time too. I don't think cats, or dogs for that matter, are ever lost. They wander off to explore, and may not wander back. Are they lost, or just long term distracted? Are they lost, or just not at home? I don't know. It would be unsettling and frustrating to have a tripping companion wander off.
Our dog owning daughter is pondering living overseas for a year, and is wondering what to do with her pooch. I've got my hand held high, stretching like a back row kid in class hoping to get noticed "Oh! I know! I know!" I'll take her lovely dog for a year, but it'll involve some kinda trade. Who'll take these cats off my hands ? Or maybe I just need a bigger house. And a few more comfortable chairs.