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The Other end of the telescope.....

We have a junk yard south of town that's like a blast from the past. They always have dogs. Very friendly as long as someone is around, very good guard dogs if otherwise. Multiple people have been bitten when they go, with owners permission, but not presence, to get parts after hours.

One of the local mailmen, Dennis, was telling his story of going there during off hours to find some old part and of course the dog came up snarling and willing to rip him apart. Dennis said he simply invited the dog to come along with him and, while not exactly happy or sure about it, the dog followed along the whole way at a respectable distance, not quite sure what to do.

I've since tried that trick with mixed results. If nothing else it sure makes a mad dog stop and think for a second when you say, "come on, let's go." It's pretty neat when it works and the dog grudgingly follows, grumbling his displeasure but unable to refuse the invitation.

Alan
 
It's a shame people like the OP discriminate against pitbulls, is it really rocket science to figure out that any dog can be aggresive, and it all depends on the owner? Whether a pit or a tiny shag dog, ANY dog that lacks the specific training can be a pain. My brother has a lovely pittbull that is as gentle as can be, and sits calmly in the canoe, very well trained and intelligent never barks at people on the trails and loves kids. Ill have to post some pics!

But hey, I guess that's the mentality of most oldie moldies as it is unfortunately :/
 
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There's a reason insurance companies ask you if you have a pit bull when signing up for homeowners insurance, and every year we have 2-4 reports in Connecticut of pit bulls/rotteys mauling people, never heard of a beagle, poodle, lab or non pit bull related mixed breed doing that.
I'm an Oldie Moldy (in spirit and age), the time I was cornered by a pit bull at a truck stop or the time my wife was chased into our house by a neighbors "gentle" rottweilerer is fresh in my mind, I'll never forget it and would never allow one near my grandkids or my Labs
 
No doubt many pit bulls are great dogs that get a bad rap and any dog can be a bad dog if not trained properly. But that being said they do seem to be more prone to violence than most other breeds and I think it's hard to ignore the statistics. I think the advice to the vast majority of potential dog owners to not get a pitbull or rottweiler is sound advice.

It also appears that dumb asses have a strong predilection towards the breed, which doesn't help the breed as a whole or individual dogs.

Alan
 
My Rotti was a very intelligent and lovely creature who also happened to be mean and unpredictable. She was fine with us but I could never trust her around other people. She especially hated chidren. In the end, I had to put her down for medical reasons. I had mixed feelings about that which included a sense of relief from the likelihood of her mauling someone.
She was a third hand dog that came to us with my daughter when she moved home.

Christine
 
No doubt many pit bulls are great dogs that get a bad rap and any dog can be a bad dog if not trained properly. But that being said they do seem to be more prone to violence than most other breeds and I think it's hard to ignore the statistics. I think the advice to the vast majority of potential dog owners to not get a pitbull or rottweiler is sound advice.

It also appears that dumb asses have a strong predilection towards the breed, which doesn't help the breed as a whole or individual dogs.

Alan


Well, I made it clear I don't like the breed, so I must be a dumb arse. I'll take the high road, have a nice day Allen.
 
Well, I didn't think I'd escape the pit bull thing without a discussion. And in this, I freely recognize the deep and sincere bonds of love that very often exist between a pit bull and his owner.
Maybe another way to consider this whole business is to consider a lab puppy. Raise that pup in the desert and never have anyone throw a ball or stick and never, ever, let it be around any body of water other than it's water bowl. Grow it up to an adult, say three or four years.
Now, take that dog to a lake and just let it be and watch what happens. Pretty quick it will be playing on the edge of the water and if someone throws a stick in, the whole process will go much faster. Within an hour it will be swimming and splashing and retrieving everything in reach, happy as .........a lab in water.
That was what it was breed for.

Nobody is surprised that .....
retrievers like to swim and bring back sticks,
greyhounds like to run,
basset hounds bay like a fog horns pretty much all the time,
terriers love killing rats and mice,
dachshunds are insanely courageous (long ago it was breed to go down badger's holes and kill them!)
Collies, shelties, aussies will try to herd just about anything,
No body is surprised because that's what they were breed for.....

When you read some news item where some little kid is torn to ribbons or killed by a family dog that was a pit bull, everyone acts surprised. "Bozo is so loving, I've had her from a pup, she's so sweet to me!" and on and on with all kinds of denials. Reminds me of the '50's when they were starting to suggest that maybe smoking wasn't all that good for you.

So what did happen with Bozo? Everything was fine until something happened that triggered the dog's aggression and it attacked the kid.
Why? Because pit bulls were breed to fight and kill. Given the right conditions this behavior can/will come out. Not always to be sure, just like not all labs like retrieving things and playing in water, but I've never seen one and I've seen a bunch of labs.

Now Jerfo thinks my being old gives me some kind of prejudiced mind set, that could be true, but it also has given me plenty of life experiences. I saw a bumper sticker on a van with pit bulls inside.
" Blame the deed not the breed"
What that sticker is asking us to do is pay no attention to the steady stream of reports of pit bull attacks but just look at each one by itself only. In other words: don't learn from experience.
I'm a pretty much live and let live kind of person but check out the attack reports on the internet, see the photos of the poor little kids, they are the ones who are paying the price for this kind of willful stupidity.

Rob
 
Robin, Alan wasn't saying that if you don't like the breed you are a dumb arse, he was saying that dumb asses are attracted to owning the breed. And that's something I've seen here where I live as well. The young snot nosed punks seem attracted to owning pit-bulls, some sort of ego thing.

In haste!
Rob
 
Robin, Alan wasn't saying that if you don't like the breed you are a dumb arse, he was saying that dumb asses are attracted to owning the breed. And that's something I've seen here where I live as well. The young snot nosed punks seem attracted to owning pit-bulls, some sort of ego thing.

In haste!
Rob

Unfortunately, this is the truth, it seems that most thugs and like minded individuals cater towards the breed because they are 'tough' looking, because that's all they seem to care about. Most of the time they have no idea how to raise a dog, and it doesn't help that most of these people have a violent additue, and that sure doesn't help. I believe dogs can read their owners like a book, most of the time and it acts as an influence, just as if a child was raised in a situation like that.

It doesnt help that there are tv shows like 'pitbulls and parolees' or whatever its called, basically all those people live up to that thug standard and gives people a bad taste, even though it's supposed to be a show promoting the breed. I personally think it's a sticky and screwed situation, and its the humans fault and not the dog.

And for the oldy moldie thing, don't take it personal, the urge was just tempting. Nothing against old folks at all, in fact keep spreading your awesome wisdom. I've learned alot about canoeing from older folks, being 22 you gotta learn it from someone with loads of experience :)
 
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Every dog I had a problem with in the ADKs owners said they never behaved like that before at home. One couple was from Manhatten. Imagine the confusion in that dog's mind in the strange wilderness and encountering on the carry trail this strange creature with a huge canoe hat on walking into his masters territory. I think for him it was as if I entered their house without knocking.
Turtle
 
Just minutes ago I was standing in my driveway with a cup of coffee in one hand and blowing kisses with the other. The last wave of visiting family has ebbed, and our humble little shore here is feeling quiet and serene once more. My lovely wife/ paddling partner is in the clean & tidy mode now. She wants to pull apart the sweet little single bed in the spare room and move the family room futon up from downstairs to take it's place. The furniture rearranging mode is the second prong of her post holiday attack strategy. We both have a week left before trudging off to work again, and so what better way to spend it than cleaning, tidying and rearranging our furniture-our rooms-our lives. Um, I could think of a lot of things I'd rather be doing, but I was too slow to make a snap 3 day decision "How do you want to rearrange the rooms after the kids leave?" My cerebral synapses are firing in slo mo. My quick thinking fast acting wife isn't waiting around another day for slo poke me to make up my mind and voice my slo as molasses thoughts. That's okay.
Kinda like this barely audible dog growling going on here. I was trying my best to stay out of trouble in this thread, seeing as how I'm only a visiting part time dog lover; my life is ruined, er, I mean ruled by cats in my household. I may not be in the best position to offer an opinion, but I've been around the block with my eyes and ears open enough to form an opinion. Having friends and family who own a variety of canine companions helps. Some folks pick a dog for it's appearance, coat, size etc. Most folks I know pick out a dog for it's reputation. The reputation is earned after generations of breeding, and generations of behaviour. My best friend's single daughter has Rottie, and she didn't pick him as a pup for his cuddliness (though he is cuddly). He's big and affectionate, but also big and fiercely loyal. That's the trait she's looking for and is enjoying. We've all read the traits exhibited by pit bulls in newspapers. They're fiercely loyal and equipped for dishing out a whole lotta pain. That trait and reputation is likely what many pit bull owners are looking for.
What all my ramble and preamble ramble means is, that Rob is once again plucking my thoughts straight outta my pointy head and slapping 'em down in timely fashion. (It's unnerving when he does that.) If there was a LIKE button I could've saved you all from my annoying blabber, and just jabbed LIKE under Oldie's post a half dozen times.
It's taken me longer to type out my thoughts than to conjure them. In that time my wife has cleaned up the brunch messy kitchen, swept under the shedding Christmas tree and started on her walk around the block. My long awaited decision is impending. How do I want to rearrange the furniture? I don't know, but I wish Rob would hurry up and fire off an e-mail to my wife telling her what I think. It'd be a whole lot faster. And much more eloquent. That is what I'd LIKE.
 
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Dear Mrs. Odyssey, This is Rob the psychic medium over in the Pacific Northwest. The reception isn't the best (maybe sunspots or something) but Brad has some more or less coherent thoughts concerning the post Christmas clean up and furniture rearranging and any other chore that might be at hand. He has asked me to bring some organization and clarity to his thoughts and relay them to you. I'm sure I don't need to tell you, but I am much impressed that within one human mind, I have never witnessed such a demonstration of brownian motion augmented with the heisenberg uncertainty principal. By that I mean, pinning his thoughts down is much like trying to stab frisky fleas in a warm skillet with an ice pick. Howsomever.....I'll do my best.

First, let me congratulate you: your reading on his Wife-O-Meter,which has a span of zero to ten, is consistently between fifteen and seventeen. Very nice work and one lucky dog.

The one point of high anxiety seems to be that he can't remember which of the of the seven furniture arraignments you favored, may I suggest that you have him set up all seven and then judge which seems best.

There is a second area of concern. It seems his high opinion of your cooking is only equaled by his consumption of your glorious holiday spread. This in turn has produced a fear that he may well have put a little too much plump on the dumpling. We both know that exercise is the sure cure for that and isn't it lucky that there are so many tasks that you need done? All it needs now is your firm direction, just remember it's all for his own good.

I hope that in some small way this has been helpful and if I can be of further assistance in future just send a thought my way.

Very Best Wishes, Rob

P.S. Brad, isn't there something about being careful what you wish for?
 
Dear Oldie dog,
This youngish dog has just been taught a new trick. Thank you for that. But more on that later. First, my better half is liking very much the "helpful" suggestions you've offered. "Who could know there'd be so many combinations and permutations to furniture arranging; seven of them!? Isn't this exciting?!" Hmm. I used to think seven was my lucky number. And yes, I'm absolutely delighted to be spending a quiet Sunday pushing too much furniture around too little spaces. "A little to the left. A little to the right. Hmm. Maybe over against that wall instead. What do you think?" Hmm. I think I need to pop a Robaxacet and ask my old friend Rob what I think. But if he's as tightly tuned into my warbling wavelengths as he says, he already knows what I'm thinking. Right about now he's blushing, spilling his evening cocoa, and sitting astonished at the language that skitters across my synapses on it's way across the universe on it's way to a wiley old dawg on the west coast. Oh yeah, my new trick. I step back, look deep in thought (whether it's occurring or not), and say "I think...no wait...yes definitely; I think we should just live with it this way for awhile and see how we like it. It looks pretty near to perfection right now." This trick is keeping me out of the dog house, and away from finding anymore furniture escapades to explore. I just might apply this trick to life in general. Instead of howling at the moon and moaning for more, I'll just be happy with the way things are within my own leash length. And I'll be careful not to let my wishful thoughts stray too far from home...lest an old dog have anymore tricky lessons to teach. Yes I'm a lucky dog, and I intend to keep it that way.
 
I can't quite figure out what this topic is, but I think it began as something about dogs and canoes. Here's my experience and opinions on that subject.

I had dogs in my family continuously since I emerged from the womb until age 68.

I canoed for 60 of those years.

I never took any of my dogs in a canoe in all that time except for a few day trips. The experience wasn't particularly enjoyable.

I don't need to be around my dogs while on brief canoe trips any more than I need to be around human beings or televisions.

98% of the dogs I've met in public places are insufficiently trained to be there. (I include my own dogs in that statistic.)

97% of dog owners I've known don't know how to sufficiently train dogs, especially to function in public places, and even more especially in wilderness places. (I include myself in that statistic.) 90% of these people, however, have an erroneous belief that they do know how to train dogs sufficiently.

I loved all of my dogs dearly.

I'm confident very few of you would have loved my dogs dearly.

Most people who take dogs in public places, including public canoeing places, are simply selfish. They're like people who used to take boomboxes. They only think of the pleasure the animal or electronic thing gives to themselves and not to the all the annoyance--often not visible, because people try to be polite--it causes to others.

I've never had any significant problem with bears, moose, snakes, wild boar, mountain lions or yeti in 60 years of canoe camping. I've had lots of problems with mosquitoes, black flies and other people's dogs.
 
It seems that you may have had some bad experiences while canoeing, Glenn, as you seem to have lots of anger towards dogs. Fortunately for me, this is not the case. Yes, I have seen a couple dogs that I believe should not be taken canoeing, but BY FAR, way more that have been a pleasure to meet.

I don't need to be around my dogs while on brief canoe trips any more than I need to be around human beings or televisions.
While not a must to have along, both dogs and humans can be a great enjoyment for me. TV, not so much.
98% of the dogs I've met in public places are insufficiently trained to be there. (I include my own dogs in that statistic.)
I am out walking my dog for at least an hour every day, and run into dozens of dogs. While there are certainly lots of dogs out there that are not trained near well enough, I would put that number closer to 50%. Others, while in my mind not trained enough, are still very good socially, and do not cause problems.
97% of dog owners I've known don't know how to sufficiently train dogs, especially to function in public places, and even more especially in wilderness places. (I include myself in that statistic.) 90% of these people, however, have an erroneous belief that they do know how to train dogs sufficiently.
In my experience, this number is way out of whack, as I would bet close to half the people I know bother to train their dogs properly, with all the basic commands. Could be that I hang with a crowd with the right disposition that desires proper training. Most friends and relatives dogs all listen very well. Not that they are all angels, but who of us are. ;)
Most people who take dogs in public places, including public canoeing places, are simply selfish.
Are you suggesting dogs should be just locked up at home? I completely (and emphatically) disagree with this statement, and believe that people who do this should not be dog owners at all. All dogs need, and deserve, proper exercise, and should be taken for it daily. This exercise is paramount for a happy dog, who is easier to train, and less likely to cause trouble.

As a turn of this coin, it could be thought of as selfish, for one to think that the great outdoors was created only for them, and not for others to enjoy in the way that works best for themselves. For many of us, our pets are a huge part of my life. This is a conscious decision I make when I get a pet. It is to be part of the family, and not just something cute to look at.

I do respect areas where dogs are not allowed, and fully understand that the few have ruined it for the many, but still prefer to have my fur friend at my side, as he (and others prior to him), have been the best paddling companions I have ever had.

Be it considered selfish, or not, I most definitely enjoy the experience of canoeing with Jasper, and know he enjoys the experience too. In no way are we stopping others from enjoying themselves either.
They're like people who used to take boomboxes. They only think of the pleasure the animal or electronic thing gives to themselves and not to the all the annoyance--often not visible, because people try to be polite--it causes to others.
I have actually never seen anyone with a boombox while canoeing, but certainly would not want to myself either. The same can be said of any personal activities, in that people just need to show respect. For example, guitars are the same, as I enjoy them, just not going on and on for long hours at a time. Or, the amorous couple who doesn't realize sound carries over water, that while an activity I can enjoy, not one I want to have others share with me. :)
 
Are you suggesting dogs should be just locked up at home? I completely (and emphatically) disagree with this statement, and believe that people who do this should not be dog owners at all. All dogs need, and deserve, proper exercise, and should be taken for it daily. This exercise is paramount for a happy dog, who is easier to train, and less likely to cause trouble.

Couldn't agree more. The dog has sat around patiently all day while I've been at work and she needs her exercise. It's hardly fair to give her a 20 minute run after work and then stick her in the house while I go canoeing all evening. But if I can bring her along we can go as long as we want, usually pulling the canoe to shore on public land where we can go for a walk part way through.

My previous dog actually gets credit for getting ME into canoeing. I was a hard core kayaker but as I started spending more and more time on the water I was feeling very guilty about leaving him home alone so often. So I decided to pick up a solo canoe, a Bell Magic, so that he could come along too. That was my first taste of canoeing in something other than an Alumicraft. Now I have a shed full of canoes and zero kayaks.

Alan
 
Most people who take dogs in public places, including public canoeing places, are simply selfish. They're like people who used to take boomboxes. They only think of the pleasure the animal or electronic thing gives to themselves and not to the all the annoyance--often not visible, because people try to be polite--it causes to others.

I have had the pleasure to paddle with 40 some odd different dogs. And it was mostly a pleasure; there were only a couple I would have preferred to not have along.

That said, they were other people’s dogs, in other people’s boats, and not under my charge or care.

I like dogs, I’ve owned a bunch of dogs, and I worked in my youth for a vet and at a kennel and for a breeder/border.

I admire people who travel with a well behaved dog instead of leaving it lonely at home or putting it in a kennel, but for utterly selfish reasons it simply isn’t for me. Restrictions on where you can stay – dogs are not permitted in many coastal canoe tripping areas. Same for some State Parks. Picking up poo in camp holds no appeal. Long distance road trips become more complicated. Extra food. And extra water on tidal trips.

So while I enjoy tripping with a dog I’m content to have other folks bring theirs.
 
I knew Moldys right post would hit too close to home and provoke a strong reaction. Think open mindedly for a moment please. Who's rights are most important? Dog owners who want to enjoy there unleashed dog or others who just want to be left alone?
Turtle
 
I knew Moldys right post would hit too close to home and provoke a strong reaction. Think open mindedly for a moment please. Who's rights are most important? Dog owners who want to enjoy there unleashed dog or others who just want to be left alone?
Turtle

Neither. If dogs are allowed we each have an equal right to be there.

Alan
 
Somewhere along the way someone's self righteous entitlement attitude will infringe on another's rights. Where does this all lead? Well, all too often it leads to unfriendly encounters, unfriendly feelings, and perpetuating unfriendly simmering attitudes. OR both sides of this doggy debate can adopt the difficult ego challenging position of...compromise. Maybe it's the latent animal lover in me that overcomes my initial indignation when my peaceful vibe is "harshed" by a canine intruder galloping up "my trail". My hackles settle and I smile at my four legged visitor (provided it's well behaved and friendly). I can compromise my peace and quiet for a few moments, as long as my visitors can compromise their doggy day out and restore my solitude soon. Give and take, live and let live, come and go...what's mine is yours and yours mine...but I'm gonna want what's mine back again and know that yours will go with you. That's not too much to ask without devolving into each others' entitlement issues and rights. I'm okay with a temporary truce; let's not make it a stand off or my having to sacrifice my idea of peace and quiet for yours. Compromise takes practise. And we all know what practise leads to.
 
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