Straight paddle recommendations

[Alan Gage]

Still digesting and disseminating. Only conclusion so far is that I won't be paddling with a cello.

Originally I never entertained the thought of a carbon whitewater paddle but am now considering it. I was worried about the strength but I see the weights of many of the carbon whitewater paddles are the same (24oz) as the wood paddles I was considering. From my experience I'd give the nod to carbon in terms of strength if weight is the same. The only functional concerns I have are the thinner blade tips and curved blade.

I realize the carbon tips will wear, I'm used to that from my Zavs. But what about strength of the thin tips? Would you be comfortable using a carbon paddle as a pole ascending rapids or snubbing with it going downstream? What about deflecting rocks? I don't mean simply pushing off them but sudden and hard contact with the blade tip where you're using it to stop most of your momentum or to shove the canoe over. Or using it as a pry if you get hung up on a rock? I guess what I'm getting at is are there scenarios where you'd feel more comfortable with a wood blade? Not necessarily from chips and wear but real failure.

And the curved blade: How different is the handling? I won't have a lot of time before the trip to get used to it. If the blade gets flipped and I'm using the non-power face how noticeable is it?

Today I'm going to talk to Midwest Mountaineering and see what they keep on hand for paddles and if they'll let me take a few out to a local lake to try out.

What would happen to your Zav if you've got a good whitewater paddle that you feel comfortable with? It will remain safe. If your other paddle is solely a backup whitewater beater you'll use your Zav when you shouldn't and put it at risk.

Stepping on it or dropping a pack on it are the two that immediately jump to mind. And the Zav sometimes gets used in questionable situations paddling up swifts/smaller rapids because I can get better speed out of it. And sometimes crap just happens. I normally wouldn't be that worried about it but this trip is long and very remote. Maybe up to 45 days and over 500 miles, some of it above tree line. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't see another person the whole trip. I do know that on Nueltin Lake there is a fishing outpost and a landing strip. But whether or not anyone will be there I'm not sure.

Alan

 

[jmhockey23]

One thing I would consider, is, you make awesome canoes, I'm sure you can make a pretty darn good paddle!!

This. Sounds like a sweet trip!

 

[Alan Gage]

One thing I would consider, is, you make awesome canoes, I'm sure you can make a pretty darn good paddle!!

That actually was the original plan but the trip got moved up by 2 weeks and there are lots of other things to be done. I don't think I've got the time. Next year!

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

Pick the best from what you can get your hands on. Remote opinions on something made by a remote maker aren't going to be useful to you. You really have to feelup the paddle.

 

[pblanc]

Still digesting and disseminating. Only conclusion so far is that I won't be paddling with a cello.

Originally I never entertained the thought of a carbon whitewater paddle but am now considering it. I was worried about the strength but I see the weights of many of the carbon whitewater paddles are the same (24oz) as the wood paddles I was considering. From my experience I'd give the nod to carbon in terms of strength if weight is the same. The only functional concerns I have are the thinner blade tips and curved blade.

I realize the carbon tips will wear, I'm used to that from my Zavs. But what about strength of the thin tips? Would you be comfortable using a carbon paddle as a pole ascending rapids or snubbing with it going downstream? What about deflecting rocks? I don't mean simply pushing off them but sudden and hard contact with the blade tip where you're using it to stop most of your momentum or to shove the canoe over. Or using it as a pry if you get hung up on a rock? I guess what I'm getting at is are there scenarios where you'd feel more comfortable with a wood blade? Not necessarily from chips and wear but real failure.

And the curved blade: How different is the handling? I won't have a lot of time before the trip to get used to it. If the blade gets flipped and I'm using the non-power face how noticeable is it?

Today I'm going to talk to Midwest Mountaineering and see what they keep on hand for paddles and if they'll let me take a few out to a local lake to try out.



Stepping on it or dropping a pack on it are the two that immediately jump to mind. And the Zav sometimes gets used in questionable situations paddling up swifts/smaller rapids because I can get better speed out of it. And sometimes crap just happens. I normally wouldn't be that worried about it but this trip is long and very remote. Maybe up to 45 days and over 500 miles, some of it above tree line. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't see another person the whole trip. I do know that on Nueltin Lake there is a fishing outpost and a landing strip. But whether or not anyone will be there I'm not sure.

Alan

I do not recall ever seeing a Werner Bandit blade break catastrophically, although they do chip along the edge and wear down. I am not at all certain that they would withstand the "abuse" of being used as a pole substitute, however. My gut feeling is that if you wanted to do that sort of thing, you would be better off with a metal blade tip reinforced Mitchell Premier or possibly an Aqua Bound Edge (although I have seen a Mitchell Premier with a carbon reinforced blade fail catastrophically when the blade got jammed in a rock crevice). The Mitchell Premiers do have a wood core blade wrapped with either fiberglass or carbon, but the fiberglass version core seems more robust to me.

Another paddle I did not recommend because I have neither seen nor held one of recent manufacture is a Norse. Back in the day, Norse paddles had the sort of legendary toughness that was shared by Blue Hole canoes. John Zazimierczyk (Kaz) had a hand in the development of a new Norse paddle called the Millbrook:

http://www.norsepaddles.com/product.php?id=21

If the new Norse paddles are anything like those of yore, they should be plenty tough.

I have seen and briefly used the previously mentioned Sawyer Ranger X paddle, and agree it is pretty decent. I believe Sawyer has discontinued this model. I recall seeing a bunch of vendors closing these out in the last couple of years, although new/old stock is still around.

As for the curved power face, it really does not take much getting used to. You probably wouldn't want to use it to palm roll and do Indian strokes (actually you could but it wouldn't feel quite right) but as for other strokes, the curved face has much less effect than a bent shaft paddle. Back strokes and sweeps, J strokes, pries, draws and braces all work pretty much the same as they would with a straight face paddle.

Occasionally I will pop into an eddy to take a drink or whatnot, have a senior moment, and eddy out with my curved face paddle backwards. It actually works pretty well that way but I usually sense something is wrong after 3 or 4 strokes and get it turned around (hopefully before someone sees me).

If you can afford the weight and annoyance when portaging of a third paddle, my recommendation would be to get a decently light whitewater paddle and take along a POS aluminum shaft paddle with a plastic blade such as a Caviness or Carlisle for when you want to push off or snub off the bottom.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I have one of those old Norse paddles. It's a dragon slayer and would never be willingly portaged. Yes its 30 years old and cannot be killed!

 

[Alan Gage]

I am not at all certain that they would withstand the "abuse" of being used as a pole substitute, however. My gut feeling is that if you wanted to do that sort of thing, you would be better off with a metal blade tip reinforced Mitchell Premier or possibly an Aqua Bound Edge

I'm probably not wording my concerns as well as I could be. I don't really plan to use it as a pole substitute but as I run through how the paddle might get used I can envision times when going both up and downstream where, in shallow water, the paddle may have to be planted hard on the bottom to either stop/slow momentum or to hold/attain upstream. Getting jammed in a crevice is a concern as well. Just trying to get an idea for what's most likely to survive a worst case scenario, how likely that scenario is, and how much I want to worry about it. Hopefully this will be like most of my minor crises where I get all worked up about something, make an agonizing decision, and in the end everything goes fine and it was much ado about nothing. But this is good information and a great help.

The lack of failures in carbon whitewater paddles by people who use them much more often and it bigger water than I'll ever paddle through is reassuring.

It also occurs to me that since I don't have any experience with wood paddles I don't know where and how they're most likely to fail either. All I can do is look at all the wood paddles that have successfully completed similar wilderness trips and take comfort. And then look at the instances where wood paddles have suddenly failed on people and get nervous again.

Occasionally I will pop into an eddy to take a drink or whatnot, have a senior moment, and eddy out with my curved face paddle backwards. It actually works pretty well that way but I usually sense something is wrong after 3 or 4 strokes and get it turned around

Great. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

If you can afford the weight and annoyance when portaging of a third paddle, my recommendation would be to get a decently light whitewater paddle and take along a POS aluminum shaft paddle with a plastic blade such as a Caviness or Carlisle for when you want to push off or snub off the bottom.

I've thought about that but I think it's where I have to draw the line.

I should be able to get to Minneapolis this weekend or next and hopefully I can talk them into letting me take a curved whitewater paddle out for a try. I'm really curious to see how it feels paddling normally on flat water.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

Wooden paddles typically fail at the neck where the blade meets the shaft. Some like to thin that down too much. Or at the shaft if its been thinned down too far mid section. Good wood paddles typically bulge a little mid shaft. Imperfections in the wood grain are your potential failure point. If you do much palm rolling you and curved blades are not a good match. If you dont well that is no problem.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

All the shaft failures I have seen with wooden paddles have been on traditional one piece paddles whereas all the blade failures have been on laminated wider designs. Of the two instances where it happened to paddles we own, one was a Grey Owl Freestyle that exploded when I hit a rock paddling upstream in shallow water, the other was a Grey Owl Sugar Island, that split along the glue lines. I much prefer glassed blades now!

I have two curved blades, a Grey Owl C1 and a custom Mitchell Blade in red/black carbon on the front face and yellow glass on the back with an indexed carbon kevlar shaft. These are made in the UK by Lance Mitchell, the nephew of David Mitchell of Mitchell paddles. I wouldn't trip with either but they are nice to paddle with on more technical water.

 

[Muskrat]

My one concern about the bending branches expedition plus we've discussed is that neck to blade union. On one hand it makes for a nice feel for in water recoveries, on the other it is definitely not as strong as my ww paddles that have a central rib extending way down the blade

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Had mine more than 10 years. I've used it on many trips in Europe and North America and with a little routine tlc it is still going strong.

 

[Alan Gage]

Ran up to Minneapolis today. Windy, hot, and humid and I knew I'd be going to Midwest Mountaineering with my friend and his toddler so I didn't even bother bringing my boat in hopes of getting to test a couple paddles on the water.

Had a nice 3 hour drive to think about paddles and in that time I came to the conclusion that I was confident a carbon whitewater paddle would work fine for my needs. But, and you all may not believe this, I can be a bit sentimental at times about traditional things and it just didn't seem right to be paddling northern Manitoba/southern Nunavut without a straight wood paddle to help balance out my carbon/kevlar boat and bent shaft. Which I guess is a good thing because when I got there the only curved blade whitewater paddle in the whole store was 50" one in the bargain bucket.

Good selection of woodies to choose from: Northstar Canoes, Sanborn, Bending Branches, and Grey Owl. All of them felt pretty good. The Northstar (Northwind straight) was the stiffest but I don't know that that necessarily means the strongest. The Sanborn was a nice looking and feeling paddle too. In the end I went with the Bending Branches Expedition Plus mainly because so many people seem to have such good luck with them. https://bendingbranches.com/canoe-paddles/expedition/expedition-plus/straight

Hopefully I can get it out tomorrow for a trial. Think I'll probably start by wet sanding the grip and shaft to get rid of the sticky gloss. If that's not good enough I'll sand it down to bare wood and oil it.

Still tempted to get that Werner Carbon Bandit because it's such a good deal for a carbon paddle and it might be fun to have for future whitewater endeavors.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and ideas.

Alan

 

[BWCA66]

That's one thing I really like about the Sanborn paddles, they leave the grip unfinished so you can oil it or even varnish it to your liking without have to sand it all off. Good luck on your trip, looking forward to hearing/seeing it when you get back.

 

[yellowcanoe]

There is not much varnish on the Bending Branches paddles. I like five coats and an unvarnished grip. So it's off to the shop if you want

There is one maybe two costs on mass produced paddles and takes no time at all to sand down and recost what you want oiled bare or varnished

 

[Alan Gage]

Went out for a nice paddle this evening. Used the new paddle for about 45 minutes. It felt great.....to put it down and pick my Zav back up!

Nothing against the paddle; it will be fine. But it sure is heavier than what I'm used to.

Alan