Solo build designs? Anything similar to MR Courier/Guide/Freedom?

[carpenter]

Posted in another thread - a good one that led me to the question about designs out there for Mad River Courier/Guide/Freedom solo build. Quick search does not reveal anything, will keep looking as this design appeals to me to try to build one of these days...but certainly easier if anyone already has a line on a design. Raven and Osprey/Kite designs would create a very fine boat too but many folk seem to rave about the MR design and the absence of a contemporary equivalent.

 

[dogbrain]

I, as I'm sure many others have done, have looked around at pretty much everything available for plans to build a strip boat. I don't recall seeing anything like those Mad River designs. Those were royalex canoes, designed primarily for river travel and bouncing along on rocks. With a few exceptions, plans available to a strip builder are geared more towards lake and gentle river travel. The John Winters canoes are very different hull designs from the Mad River. From what I've read and seen, those Mad River designs are scaled down explorers, at least the Freedom Solo seems to be. That being said, to get something similar you might take plans for a 16' prospector and have them reduced by some factor to get the width you would like for a solo boat, then space out the forms to get the desired length. There is a bit of uncertainty as to what you would end up with, but that's one route. My advice is to start with deciding what kind of paddling you expect to do and work towards picking a design from that direction.

Mark

 

[Cruiser]

Concur, first step is to define where you plan on going and what you need to be there, then look at what you want to take with you to determine load capacity.

Plans are all over the internet for different needs, Bear Mountain, Ashes Stillwater, Greenval, North West Canoe ... so locating suitable plans to yuor needs is pretty doable.


Brian

 

[carpenter]

This makes sense - just hoping with the enthusiasm for these boats and observations that a well paddled composite boat could go most anywhere that perhaps someone had tried. Most/all boats for strip build as you discuss are leaning to more efficient shapes and calmer waters.

Inspired by a few posters here and elsewhere to build a strip boat then use as a plug for a composite.

I have a pleasant solo boat (Northwind Solo) but it is that, pleasant, looking for something twitchier and suitable for playing in up to Class II. Maybe a Phoenix in IXP in another life...

affordable boats that fit the bill are not falling from the sky these days - lost a MR Guide on Kijiji close to home last Spring due to hesitation and inexperience but have not seen much to compare since and no budget to buy new after buying the Northstar so thought could acquire bits and pieces for a build.

 

[Guest]

MRC made the Courier in kevlar from 1983 to 1993, and the Guide in two different kevlar layups, Kevlar Expedition from 1995 to 1999 and Kevlar Hybrid (?) in 2000.

As is often the case the composite versions were a bit longer than their Royalex siblings.The composite Courier was 14’ 10” x 32”, 15” deep and 49lbs. The composite Guide was 14’ 9”, a bit narrower at 29 ½” and weighed 45 lbs.

I’ve never seen a composite Courier for sale, and exactly one composite Guide. That one was only 30 miles from my home, but an ISO friend in Pittsburg spotted it first and asked me to go have a look and pay the man if it looks good. It did, I did and I met him halfway to deliver it.

As far as I know all of the composite Couriers and Guides had wood gunwales, and neither has been made in 20+ years; maybe someone finally rotted the gunwales off one and wants to sell it cheap.

Someone with no paddling friends who lust after a Courier or Guide; there’s a desirability reason those canoes are unicorns on the used market.

 

[carpenter]

So far looks like I might have the triple threat challenge, find a used boat that few are willing to part with, loft a design from it, build a strip boat and then use the strip boat as a plug for a composite version...wait, that is a quadruple threat challenge...and then there is COVID, the border (likely not nearly as many MRs here in Canada), my family...

There is that too...never built a canoe...love paddling them though.

If I can build and trim out a house, I can build a canoe? Time and patience and a decent eye for a fair line?

One never knows what opportunity life will present.

 

[Guest]

So far looks like I might have the triple threat challenge, find a used boat that few are willing to part with, loft a design from it, build a strip boat and then use the strip boat as a plug for a composite version...wait, that is a quadruple threat challenge...and then there is COVID, the border (likely not nearly as many MRs here in Canada), my family...

The Courier and Guide, having been Vermont-built MRC’s, may be more common in the New England area. And, apparently, Idaho, although perhaps that says something about how discerning Steve’s friend are about their choice of canoe.

One never knows what opportunity life will present.

When the border finally reopens maybe check New England Craigslists or Facebook Marketplace in that region. On the bright side of opportunity those canoes were built 20 or 30+ years ago and perhaps the original owners are aging out.

If you find one in Maryland or southern Pennsylvania I’ll go check it out for you. “Nah, it needed work, you didn’t want that canoe, but thanks for the heads up” ;-)

 

[carpenter]

Thanks for that - offer and reassurance that it does not have to happen now. Also, I appreciate your contributions to this site, some real inspiration and wise counsel.

 

[kona]

A nice Kevlar / wood courier popped up in the twin cities last year. They’re out there, waiting in garages to get back on the water.

 

[Guest]

A nice Kevlar / wood courier popped up in the twin cities last year. They’re out there, waiting in garages to get back on the water.

I would not pass on one at any reasonable price if I saw it. Our RX Freedom Solo is one of my all-time favorite canoes, but if I could drop 10 lbs while gaining both length & depth, in canoe design or, uh, personal physique, I’d be all over it

I remain a used canoe optimist. Someday, maybe not a wait as long as usual, perhaps only a few years from now, the seeming scads of people who bought or (still on) ordered a decent quality canoe instead of a big-box plastic rec kayak for Covid escape relief will want their McMansion garage space back.

Or – be still my heart – will have left a nice composite canoe with wood gunwales face down on the lawn, or busted it in some novice mishap.

Seven come eleven, Daddy needs a lightweight composite solo to rebuild.

 

[carpenter]

Seriously? A Royalex Freedom Solo offered up for $1250, 20 minutes from my house...but did not check the kijiji update until tonight...already gone. Wouldn't surprise me if it was the one I missed in Brockville for $800 last Fall.

 

[stripperguy]

Mr Carpenter,

Don't doubt your abilities...if you can build a house, then a stripper is a walk in the park.
A stripper could take as little as 40-50 hours to build, why that's merely 4 or 5 baseball games not watched! OK, maybe I exaggerate, but I'm biased against watching televised sports.
And I'm sure you've seen everyone's costs to build, could be as little as $600, way less than even a good used production boat.
As far as durability, most strippers are darn tough, same for home built composites, and besides, if you built it, you could certainly repair it if need be.

Take a look at my strip built Red Kite, I built it strong but too heavy for my shrinking muscle mass. So I built a Carbon Copy...not as light as I hoped, but still 10 lbs lighter than the strip version.
Should you decide to build (and you should, really), I think I can speak for most of the builders here and say we would be more than happy to help along the way.

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[Alan Gage]

Like Stripperguy said building a boat is much easier than building a house.

I designed and built myself a 14' stripper for similar uses. I wanted something for taking weekend whitewater trips or just something more maneuverable for paddling cattail choked sloughs around home. I built it with thin strips (5/32") and used carbon inside rather than fiberglass. I don't see strippers as wooden boats but rather as composite boats with a wood core. You can build them lightweight with 4oz cloth or you can build them heavy duty with carbon or kevlar, all of which I've done depending on the intended usage of the boat.

It was finished in a rush as I suddenly bought a different house mid-build and put a super rush on to get it done and out of the shop. Since then I haven't done any serious paddling so it's only done day trips around home. I like it though. I've done some limited paddling in composite and royalex Wildfires and to me this seems similar with higher volume.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/general-paddling-discussions/diy/64145-solo-14

Alan